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Blade Speed Comparison Sheet

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2018 at 7:16pm
I had tested earlier a Roots 6 Basalt which came in at 1475, a spruce+Ayous+kiri but the manufacture rated the Roots 3 offensive 5-ply at 70% tempo and the Basalt at 65% so my expectation was that the Roots 3 would have a slightly higher Frequency but the difference was much larger then I anticipated. The Roots 3 has a very soft feel given it composition but it is thick, 6.5 and stiff. I have ordered a Roots 8 ZLC inner which has a construction closer to the Basalt roots 6 so it will be interesting to see it's frequency relative to the other two SoulSpin blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2018 at 1:36pm
I have 2 Darker 1-ply hinoki and one of them is a Darker Speed 90 ST for sure, the other is an older Speed 90 (or maybe a Speed 70???), the latter is the one I measured above.

Today I measured the Speed 90 ST 90g: the value was so high I did it twice. Now on the 2 screen shots below if we take the peak on the left it says 735, the one on the right? 2325!

Given the 2 screen shots below, do you think I am doing anything wrong?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2018 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by cyber_613 cyber_613 wrote:

DHS H301 - 91gram

IMG_6830 by cyber_613, on Flickr

1335



how can you tell if the blade will have solid bounce not hollow based on the frequency chart?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2018 at 3:32pm
higher frequency = higher stiffness
sharper, more defined peak = harder outer ply

hinoki is very soft, hence less defined peak, but 1ply is stiff, hence higher frequency.
h301 is koto and overall hard, but retains some flex, hence sharp peak and mid frequency.

stiffer softer blades feel faster, more bouncy at low to medium impact, but can lack power away from the table. Just look at some balsa composites for example - high frequency and high stiffness.

Not sure how accurate this is, but I think we are getting closer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2018 at 9:54pm
updated with a bunch of new data submitted by fatt and others
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2018 at 12:02am
Soulspin Roots 8 ZLC inner:   1491
1.3 Spruce outer ply,
.06 Ayous 2nd ply
ZLC inner ply
2.0 Kiri

weight 96 grams
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wanchope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2018 at 12:19am
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Soulspin Roots 8 ZLC inner:   1491
1.3 Spruce outer ply,
.06 Ayous 2nd ply
ZLC inner ply
2.0 Kiri

weight 96 grams

Amazing that this is so much lower than that of the roots 3. Fairly close to the roots 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2018 at 1:07am
Originally posted by wanchope wanchope wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Soulspin Roots 8 ZLC inner:   1491
1.3 Spruce outer ply,
.06 Ayous 2nd ply
ZLC inner ply
2.0 Kiri

weight 96 grams

Amazing that this is so much lower than that of the roots 3. Fairly close to the roots 6.


Roots 3, 5-ply is stiff similar to a one ply while both the Roots 6 and Roots 8 have more flex that is really what the numbers show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acpoulos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2018 at 6:39pm
Drop a ball from a graduated height and measure the coefficient of restitution
Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2018 at 4:41pm
updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cobalt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2018 at 7:31pm
It appears as though Stiga Allround Evolution from 13th Feb has been missed.  Not sure if just that blade or if its a whole section from around that time.

Keep up the good work, I find it a really useful reference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2018 at 1:28pm
Mods - Can we please sticky this? I think it is an interesting compilation of data (I know there are ongoing discussions regarding the value and significance of frequency data but...).
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cftt-blades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2018 at 9:57am
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

higher frequency = higher stiffness
sharper, more defined peak = harder outer ply

hinoki is very soft, hence less defined peak, but 1ply is stiff, hence higher frequency.
h301 is koto and overall hard, but retains some flex, hence sharp peak and mid frequency.

stiffer softer blades feel faster, more bouncy at low to medium impact, but can lack power away from the table. Just look at some balsa composites for example - high frequency and high stiffness.

Not sure how accurate this is, but I think we are getting closer.

I think this is pretty accurate and consistent with the testing i've done.  I've been making my own blades for about 6 months now.  I have test results for 12 different blades i've made with widely varied compositions.  Not sure how to best contribute that information to the spreadsheet as I don't really have "names" for the individual blade compositions, but it is quite interesting.

I just built two carbon blades that had a fairly interesting and unique carbon as the 2nd ply right below the top ply of the blade, and they are both very "stiff" (and this shows with the high peak in the 1700-1725Hz range), and then I built a ZLC "innerforce" style blade with the ZLC right on top of a Kiri core, and it tested in the 1360Hz range, which would be expected with a more flexible blade without a stiff 2nd ply.

I have found though that as you increase hardness, at some point you start losing speed as well.  I have an all wood 5 ply blade that I made with Sapele as the top ply, which is a pretty hard and stiff wood (1410 Janka, 12.04Gpa elasticity) and it only measures 1010Hz.  It also plays like an ALL+ blade so that makes sense.  It has a great feel for close to the table blocking and hitting, but lacks some top end speed due to the harder outer ply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2018 at 11:59pm
updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2018 at 7:53pm
updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2018 at 9:11pm
My 77g Darker S90 measured 1722Hz with rubber on the other side. Does it make any difference? Does a heavier blade have a higher frequency? ie: fatt's 90g DS90 measured 2325Hz, while both of our blades are at 9mm thick. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/27/2018 at 9:50pm
yes, heavier blades always measure higher 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2018 at 11:18am
But here's the dilemma: given 2 blade of the same hinoki material, same thickness and dimensions, but different weight, which means different dryness. The heavier blade is probably has more moisture than the lighter one, right? But then why does the heavier blade blade has a higher frequency with a higher moisture content? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2018 at 1:04am
Collection has been updated. Thanks for all the submissions!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2018 at 8:28am
Am I right thinking that different balls you guys used only affect amplitude of the vib rather than freq?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2018 at 1:34pm
Unless you use 38/40 celluloid balls, the difference should be irrelevant on the grand scheme of things
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2018 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Dream1700 Dream1700 wrote:

I used Visual Audio v.1.0.3 (iOS). I don't know if the measurements are compatible with those by the Apps listed at the start of the thread. I used Visual Audio because it is free, identifies peak and averages several bounces.
Settings used: aquisition rate 8,000 kHz, Level calibration 140 dB, duration 20s. I averaged 2 runs: each run produces several close peak resonace freqs (e.g. 1125 and 1123) those were averaged prior to averaging two runs.
Donier Defensive  84.6g  946.5
Stiga Allround Classic WRB (1998)  70.3g  1061
TSP Swat  80.8g  1123.5
Donic Burn All+  77.4g  1124
Andro Temper Tech All+  70g  1147  (in some runs I get 1216 peak instead)
Xiom Fuga  76g  1269.5
Palio CAT  68.4g  1484.5
Yinhe T11+  68.4g  1736.5 

I have expected TSP Swat to have higher frequency (it is 7ply). Could be getting lower peak due to somewhat light weight that I got.  The blade plays very nicely BTW.

**Edited Donic-Tibhar mixup

Using the same set-up:
Stiga Infinity VPS V 77 g. 1351 peak
Stiga Offensive Wood NCT 78 g. 1369 peak


Edited by Dream1700 - 10/01/2018 at 7:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2018 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

My 77g Darker S90 measured 1722Hz with rubber on the other side. Does it make any difference? Does a heavier blade have a higher frequency? ie: fatt's 90g DS90 measured 2325Hz, while both of our blades are at 9mm thick. 

Update: It makes a big difference if the blade is with one side rubber and no rubber at all.  My naked DS90 frequency is 2131Hz:


Here is my naked 9mm 91g Miyabi at 2110Hz:



Edited by hleett - 10/02/2018 at 9:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2019 at 1:46am
sorry for the absence. Sheet has been updated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2019 at 2:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyber_613 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2019 at 12:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2019 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

But here's the dilemma: given 2 blade of the same hinoki material, same thickness and dimensions, but different weight, which means different dryness.

The moisture in the blade will no doubt affect the weight, but big weight differences are likely due to different wood densities, not moisture. Wood is a natural product, so it's always going to variation in internal structure & density, which affects the weight and performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2019 at 8:58am
   


     ABORTED ....   USELESS...

Edited by igorponger - 02/22/2019 at 9:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2019 at 9:14am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

But here's the dilemma: given 2 blade of the same hinoki material, same thickness and dimensions, but different weight, which means different dryness.

The moisture in the blade will no doubt affect the weight, but big weight differences are likely due to different wood densities, not moisture. Wood is a natural product, so it's always going to variation in internal structure & density, which affects the weight and performance.


Quite so .. Quite so ... Exactly ...

BLADES and FIDDLES ..
Actually, even if labeled with same brand/logo, there are no two blades playing alike. All table tennis plywoods would be taken from different parts of the woodlog, so the finished plywoods differ in density and different moisture index.. This is the elementary truth every woodworker is aware of.

Wooden blades is much like wirtuozo fiddles. They all would play differently.    

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-32080-9_19

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2019 at 3:21pm
I was tired of going back to that old and slow Android for the task and found the Iphone version of  Spectrum Analyzer Pro available free of charge for limited capabilities including the one I need. I do not think the free part was available when Slevin's thread, arg0's and this one were created. We get often prompted to purchase the Pro version (fair game) but the notice can be dismissed. The peak is not stored but we can move the vertical line towards the highest peak and we can verify live that indeed, it's what gets generated when the ball hits the blade.

Here is a 5-blades sample (that online app was useful to collate the images into one):

2x BBC Hinoki Ghost 91g ST 1221hz ($20 fee to insure a verified matching pair!)
BTY MPS 90g ST 1349hz
BTY MJ SZLC 91g FL 1551hz
BTY Photino Light 72g ST 1646hz
BTY TB ZLC 87g ST 1561hz










Edited by fatt - 03/09/2019 at 5:33pm
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