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Bobloiy's Improvement Thread |
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bobloiy
Member Joined: 01/21/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: 11/16/2014 at 2:30pm |
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Hey guys! It's me again. I recently played in a league this Friday, and I recorded a game. Wow, am I pretty bad. Heh, I need to improve on everything. I've been playing for around 4 months now. Can you guys guess my rating and tell me specifics on what I need to improve on? Thanks.
I'm the kid in the green shirt. Opponent around 1300~1400 <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qOGv6CEhr_c?list=UUBZAbsNv5Nv46kgNNghJQQg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> For this game, the guy is around (but below) 2000, he went easy on me. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6DexaGc2bSg?list=UUBZAbsNv5Nv46kgNNghJQQg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Edited by bobloiy - 11/18/2014 at 9:56am |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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For 4 months, i think you are doing very well. I would say your are around 1400. Your coach or teacher has taught you some good basic strokes. Keep practicing and try some multiball sessions. Talk to all the people you play with and pick there brains...for tips. If you can afford it, try paying for a top coach for a couple of lessons. We all pick up bad habits that are hard to get rid of. Coaching will help alot. In my younger years, I know i improved alot on my backhand loop when my coach multi balled me to death....lol Your serves are a little week, get a bucket of balls and keep practicing serves...that will help alot...Try different angles, timing and where you contact the ball on your rubber. Keep practicing and you will steadily get better.....
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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I think you have real potential to be a good player, I like your opening loop when you don't lean back it actually forces a bit of a popup which you could hit for a winner rather than trying to re-loop
your backhand needs work and you could get the first bounce of your serve to be more consistant with practice, but If I was you (young strong and potentialy fast) I would just practice forehand looping all day where ever the ball lands then work on backhand block just to set yourself up again for a forehand
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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Grip on your FH is excellent. However you are too passive on your BH.
My advice is to use a more BH biased grip for your BH and practice grip switching.
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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
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bobloiy
Member Joined: 01/21/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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What do you mean by passive? My coach told me not to change my grip when going from FH to BH.
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kenneyy88
Premier Member Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
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You've got lots to work on. I would work on making sure you hit the ball from the side of the ball and swing across. You need a backswing to the ball, contact near the side of the ball, and then follow through across and forward. A lot of the balls you are contacting the back of the ball and not the side.
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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That's cool, then stick with what your coach advises then. What I mean by passive is that you block or counter with your BH when you could drive or loop. At least with the higher level player from what is shown in the vids. The vids are edited so maybe there are more points where you attacking with your BH than is represented in the vids you posted. You are obviously a FH dominant player and I have no issues with getting to your FH early and often. However imo you could be putting more pressure on with your BH. A BH biased grip affords better control on the blocks and counters and gives more attacking capability imo. In some of the clips it looks as if you might be switching anyway but I can't be certain. Regardless the obvious problem is that it might slow down your BH-FH transition until it was automatic.
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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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You clearly have a coach. Listen to him/her. You play well and your game is headed in the right direction.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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That worthless Der_Echte over at TTD is trying to show you some things to look at with your FH topspin. Often, you are hitting too far in front of your effective hitting zone on your misses vs higher balls or vs a block from when your heavy loop landed. On your slow loop vs underspin, you are not getting down and using your legs/waist to start the power. You will need to use those to get any power and control on a heavy slow loop.
Hard to say your exact level, but you are in a ringer region. 1400 in Oklahoma might not be 1100-1200 where you are at. When you do sanctioned tourneys, you would know when the ratings get posted after your tourney, like anywhere from a week to a month or two later. We can say your level is this or that, but don't be disappointed if your rating becomes something different at first. You will later become the rating of your level if you do enough tourneys vs enough players above and below and equal to your playing level, along with many different playing styles of those levels.
You are in a good place to improve, I take it you go to the Han-In TTC.
In Korea, you would be a "Hope" division player. By the way, I wonder what level the J-Pen player in Yellow is? Ask him what regional division he played in Korea.
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bobloiy
Member Joined: 01/21/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Oh. Well I just started learning the BH loop, it'll take some time to adjust to the stroke. Trying to get the timing/feel right, it's tough... |
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bobloiy
Member Joined: 01/21/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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What are all the different divisions in Korea? I'm guessing Hope is pretty down there. |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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bobloiy, don't sweat it too hard about BH looping vs underspin right now. Although I think it is one of the easiest and most natural TT strokes, you just don't start doing that early in your playing progression for many coaches, especially KOREAN coaches. They got their own top secret coaching manual (in their heads) and it is amazingly standardized across many coaches.
Korean coaches will tell you to use your BH punch shot or soft medium BH drive as a means to control the ball, stay in the point, and get a chance to put that powerful FH into play (usually with some footwork to get a chance to use it)
That is just fine for your level. heck, nearly all the Div 3 crowd shakehand players do not loop vs underspin very well and more than 1/2 of the Div 2 /Div 1 city crowd shakehanders doesn't BH loop underspin all day long either.
In Korean amature TT there are classifications (Divisions) for city, regional and national tourneys. City and regional players usually have the same classification in both. However, at national open tourneys, you play many levels below your city level. A Div 1 city player plays Div 3 or Div 4 national.
In city / regional play, the following is approximate where players stand. You move into the next higher division by winning your division a couple times, or when your coach is forced by other coaches calling bullcrap to move you up. Since every coach is trying to keep a staple of players at every level severely under-classified, other coaches who call bullcrap will have bullcrap called on them too, so there is a balance. EVERY division is stacked with under-classified players at the top end. If you win your division, you were either already two full levels a higher player, or you played your ass off two full levels above your level and were lucky AND had a great tourney day.
Hope Division: Newbs and any player who hasn't done a tourney yet. Players up to 1200 USATT are here, but some are higher as coach's ringers
Div 5 City/Regional: Usually 1200-1400 level player minus the ringers who might be 1600-1700ish.
Div 4 City/Regional: Usually 1400-1800 USATT Funny this covers several playing levels, but this is true and Div 4 Div 5 players are the average club level players in Korea making up over half the field.
Div 3 City/Regional: USATT 1700-1900 USATT
Div 2 City/Regional: USATT 1800-2000 USATT
Div 1 City/Regional: USATT 2000+
Div 0 City Regional: Players who are too good for City Div 1, usually over 2200-2300 USATT
Div MINUS 1 City / Regional: Players who are too good to be Div 0, usually this is for USATT 2300-2400 level players
TT Athlete Division: In Korean 선수부 These are USATT 2400+ players who were professinally trianed at grade school, middle school, and High School as an athlete and are almost semi-pro level
Semi-pro level - These are USATT 2600+ level players who are members of a city-sponsored team, like Yong-In City Hall
Korean Pro team members - These pro league teams have players ranging form 2750 to WR 10 (2850+)
Korean Natl Team level - 국가대표... The pinnical of achievement in a national level.
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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To me, you look around 1400 US and the blue shirt guy maybe close to 1500. I don't see anything drastically wrong. Keep up the good work!
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Thanks BH-Man for the clarification on the Korea TT ratings system. I always find it interesting to learn and hear how other countries operate there clubs and ratings system.
Fighting!!!(Disclosure...i watch alot of Korean Dramas) Also, before major National U.S. tournaments...Alot but not all... players tank there ratings in smaller tournaments so they can do well in the coming larger tournaments. (Ringers) Never found this to be fair at all. Strategy or cheating the system?
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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bobloiy
Member Joined: 01/21/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Oh wow. So the new coach at my club is/was in the Div 0, and a kid coming from Korea (who originally got coached by the coach here at first) is in the Div 1/0... He's in 8th grade. Surprising. My coach used to be in the national team, he's pretty reputable.
Edited by bobloiy - 11/17/2014 at 7:28pm |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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I think your coach was on the natl team in the 70s and Korean amature TT has changed a lot since then. What hasn't changed a lot is schools trained kids hardcore like pro training for hours a day. Brutal footwork training, hours of practice. Korean system spends FOREVER on footwork and stance/movement/stroke mechanic fundamentals before moving on to complicated combination drills.
Natl open tourneys have Div 1 as highest, then if there are athlete players, they make an "Athelete" (Seon-Soo) Division. And if there are a lot of those ringer Athletes who have won Natl tourneys in the tourney, then they make a Champion Division.
You see the Div 0 in the city/regional tourneys. When there are not enough players to make a division field, the TD will combine two divisions, usually it is Div 1 and 2. Some of the larger ones combine Div 1 and Div 0. When Div 1 player faces Div 2 player, he gives up a 2 point handicap each game.
If the 8th grade kid has been identified and trained as a TT athlete since age 8 or 9, he would have 5 or 6 years in the hardcore training, so City Div 0 is about right for the good ones. Some of those go on to succeed on junior natl circuit and get identified to potentially be a pro later. I wouldn't be surprised if the 8th grade kid is already as high as 2400, some of them get that level before HS. I saw a few 10-11 yr olds who were 2100ish already who came to my local club to train once a week.
Some cities... the TD will make you Div 0 even if you are 2200-2300 though, since you might have won city tourney before once or twice.
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Just about any system can be gamed to make ringers.
If it is a numerical rating, then losing a few selected matches does that.
If it is a Division classification system, then all a player needs to do is crash out before the finals or maybe semis.
The way Korean coaches create and maintain a whole brigade of ready-made ringers is they train the daylights outta their players at the club, they play vs each other, and are truly Div 1 level, but in the Singles division, coach has them crash out before semis and they are all still Div 3. My former city in Korea had a club with a 5 member squad of Div 1 level players all classified at Div 3, so when team event came around, they would get 3 pt handicap playing vs opponent teams' Div 1 players. They didn't win team event all the time as EVERY team is stacked with as many ringers as can be found, so at the end of the day, playing field is kinda level, but only at the top end of the divisions.
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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The only way to stop ringers form coming about is for a TD to have complete personal knowledge of the players and the ability to command-override the division assigned by the coach. Ironically, I always complained about these ringers to TD to no avail, then enemy coaches griped about me and got me advanced to higher divisions and I NEVER won a city or regional or national tourney EVER.
EDIT: I waz trying my azz off to win every match every tourney. Losing just burned me. There are many TT players north of Seoul who know they better get well away from a 50 meter zone of me and my TT bag after a loss in the Singles Divison that eliminates me from contention. :)
If I was Korean, I would still be a Div 4 city player with a strong Div 2 playing level, an idea ringer for team comp. Before I left Korea, I was troubling a lot of the Div 1 crowd and won some matches vs them straight up without handicap. if I got a 3 point handicap vs the Div 1 crowd, I would be un-stoppable vs 95% of them.
That is the kind of ringer Korea coaches try to grow in their clubs.
Now when it is time for the Club to run their own internal club tourney, then coach assigns divisions a little more fairly :) Edited by BH-Man - 11/17/2014 at 8:29pm |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Hey bobloiy, ask you coach if he knows this coach in the pic. This is Lee Jae Chul who was for a short while on the national team perhaps around the same time he was in the 70s..
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bobloiy
Member Joined: 01/21/2014 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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I think he was on the national team in the 80s/90s, he's not that old, haha. Edited by bobloiy - 11/17/2014 at 8:39pm |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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I must have mis-read the Han-in TTC website when I checked it out last year. :)
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