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BTY 2017 Rozena

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2017 at 8:50pm
i guess i will have to try it for myself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2017 at 9:32pm
A more expensive Andro Hexer.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 3:44am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

A more expensive Andro Hexer.

In the same way that T05 is an even more expensive Andro Hexer, yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t64t64t64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 4:56am
and friendship 729  is cheaper Andro Hexer :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 5:13am
Originally posted by t64t64t64 t64t64t64 wrote:

and friendship 729  is cheaper Andro Hexer :D

Rubber relativism is fun.

I had another session with Rozena last night.  When butterfly first announced it I did wonder about how it was being pitched and what the end result would be.  If it really is a toned-down tenergy, doesn't that put it squarely in the sights of some ESN rubbers which are cheaper anyway?  Well, yes and no I suppose.  The main thing is that Rozena retains the Tenergy wibbly-wobbly feel for the most part, and no other rubber series has ever got close to that.  Plus it has that super-nice loop feel with surprising spin levels.  

After using it a little more I think it has more high-end catapult than I originally thought, but it definitely has a noticeable short-game advantage over tenergy.  And it sounds great on hard hits if that floats your boat.  So if you want a slightly more inert (and cheaper) tenergy experience then it's worth a stab.  I wouldn't call it a beginner's rubber - it has much better performance than Roundell or Sriver G3 for example.  But I do miss the sharper and more direct feel of my usual ESN fare.

If it's Butterfly's gateway drug then Rozena is the ketamine to Tenergy's blue sky crystal meth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 6:43am
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

A more expensive Andro Hexer.

In the same way that T05 is an even more expensive Andro Hexer, yes.

Nah, 05 has much more arc and is jumpier.   Obviously, Hexer doesn't have a spring sponge feel, but I wouldn't be surprised if the playing characteristics were pretty similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 8:53am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

A more expensive Andro Hexer.

In the same way that T05 is an even more expensive Andro Hexer, yes.

Nah, 05 has much more arc and is jumpier.   Obviously, Hexer doesn't have a spring sponge feel, but I wouldn't be surprised if the playing characteristics were pretty similar.

That was my point.  They feel very different, and you might be surprised by how different Rozena feels in comparison with something like Hexer.  Rozena is far more like Tenergy than anything else.  If you were prepared to call the playing properties close to Hexer, you're basically throwing all medium-hard rubbers with good spin and medium-high arc into the same bucket.  This is casting the net quite wide, and could well be true (why nitpick over a few small details when describing rubbers after all - hardly the most important thing to concentrate on in the game), but would give me less to talk about so I don't like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 9:08am
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

That was my point.  They feel very different, and you might be surprised by how different Rozena feels in comparison with something like Hexer.  Rozena is far more like Tenergy than anything else.  If you were prepared to call the playing properties close to Hexer, you're basically throwing all medium-hard rubbers with good spin and medium-high arc into the same bucket.  This is casting the net quite wide, and could well be true (why nitpick over a few small details when describing rubbers after all - hardly the most important thing to concentrate on in the game), but would give me less to talk about so I don't like it.

I don't think this is true at all, but I will defer to your expertise at this time.  Hexer has very specific properties that I think have gotten better with the plastic ball.


Edited by NextLevel - 05/04/2017 at 9:09am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 9:18am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

That was my point.  They feel very different, and you might be surprised by how different Rozena feels in comparison with something like Hexer.  Rozena is far more like Tenergy than anything else.  If you were prepared to call the playing properties close to Hexer, you're basically throwing all medium-hard rubbers with good spin and medium-high arc into the same bucket.  This is casting the net quite wide, and could well be true (why nitpick over a few small details when describing rubbers after all - hardly the most important thing to concentrate on in the game), but would give me less to talk about so I don't like it.

I don't think this is true at all, but I will defer to your expertise at this time.  Hexer has very specific properties that I think have gotten better with the plastic ball.

I'm sure you'll get to try a sheet of Rozena out at some point in the near future.  Always interesting to find out what you think.

Regardless of how it feels, or plays, Rozena still struggles to justify the price tag when compared to everything else out there IMO, but it will find its market I'm sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 9:36am
Butterfly justifying a price? 😂
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 9:48am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

A more expensive Andro Hexer.

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

I'm sure you'll get to try a sheet of Rozena out at some point in the near future.

Wait, wut? I'm confused.

Is NL going back and forth arguing about what Rozena is like without having tried out the rubber?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 9:59am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

A more expensive Andro Hexer.

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

I'm sure you'll get to try a sheet of Rozena out at some point in the near future.

Wait, wut? I'm confused.

Is NL going back and forth arguing about what Rozena is like without having tried out the rubber?

About what Hexer is like.  And I used Hexer for 3 months in tournament play.  And Andy compared Hexer to Tenergy 05, which I have used much more.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 10:16am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

About what Hexer is like.  And I used Hexer for 3 months in tournament play.  And Andy compared Hexer to Tenergy 05, which I have used much more.

I'm not sure if you got what I was saying.

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

A more expensive Andro Hexer.

In the same way that T05 is an even more expensive Andro Hexer, yes.

Meaning that it isn't.  Neither are.  Both statements are wrong in the same way.  That kind of thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 10:34am
I didn't get that, no.  Too subtle for me.  Thanks for clarifying.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 10:35am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I didn't get that, no.  Too subtle for me.  Thanks for clarifying.

It was amazing in my own head.  I need to get out more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hidasjoki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 5:20pm
It wasn't too subtle.....
<3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2017 at 5:46pm
I saw a Hexer user in my league beat a former US Champion. I think that must have messed up my estimation of Hexer.   I probably think Hexer has a red sponge too.

Tenaji 0H.

Hexena...
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2017 at 6:27pm
I won't lie - I really didn't want to like Rozena.  I try new things out of pure curiosity and never expect much from the experience apart from...experience.  But Rozena is a charming rubber, and I struggle to find much to fault with it.  Another 3 hour session today with it and it's grown on me a bit more.

I find that the slightly inert low gear gives way to the high-end catapult a bit suddenly sometimes, but beyond that, it's pretty lovely.  It has that gummy tenergy feel that perhaps lacks a little directness as well.  But the main thing that stands out for me is that it sorts out the majority of the quibbles I have with something like T05 while making only minor sacrifices of things I need at my level.  It still isn't cheap, but it is cheaper, and if the durability holds up then the slight premium over ESN prices might level it all out anyway.
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Give photos to the world!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2017 at 4:53pm
Alrighty.



Quick stack, from the top - Rozena, Goldarc 5, Rasanter R42, Rasanter V42.

I'll try to get some cut-offs of some tenergy in the near future.  That would be a far more interesting comparison.



And here is the Rose Lady with a mystery blade.  What could it be?






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vajica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2017 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

I won't lie - I really didn't want to like Rozena.  I try new things out of pure curiosity and never expect much from the experience apart from...experience.  But Rozena is a charming rubber, and I struggle to find much to fault with it.  Another 3 hour session today with it and it's grown on me a bit more.

I find that the slightly inert low gear gives way to the high-end catapult a bit suddenly sometimes, but beyond that, it's pretty lovely.  It has that gummy tenergy feel that perhaps lacks a little directness as well.  But the main thing that stands out for me is that it sorts out the majority of the quibbles I have with something like T05 while making only minor sacrifices of things I need at my level.  It still isn't cheap, but it is cheaper, and if the durability holds up then the slight premium over ESN prices might level it all out anyway.


Andy, I am boring you again with my everlasting quest, replacing Adidas P7 on my FH Embarrassed

I am currently playing with 05FX 2.1, it checks almost all the boxes on Hadraw SK blade (short, spinny serve, lots of rotation on well executed loops), the only exception being it is less forgiving when I try to do a slow save shot when out of position, makes me lose quite a few points on a days when the feet are not working properly.

If you played with 05fx, please tell your opinion, should I stick with it, or try Rosena (2.1? )?
Thanks!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2017 at 7:45pm
found it to be too soft for my taste...maybe 1.9 mm will feel harder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PringlesRingles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2017 at 8:19pm
Viscaria light?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kuifje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2017 at 3:30am
Could anyone compare Rozena to Rasanter and/or EL-S?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2017 at 4:01am
Originally posted by vajica vajica wrote:


Andy, I am boring you again with my everlasting quest, replacing Adidas P7 on my FH Embarrassed

I am currently playing with 05FX 2.1, it checks almost all the boxes on Hadraw SK blade (short, spinny serve, lots of rotation on well executed loops), the only exception being it is less forgiving when I try to do a slow save shot when out of position, makes me lose quite a few points on a days when the feet are not working properly.

If you played with 05fx, please tell your opinion, should I stick with it, or try Rosena (2.1? )?
Thanks!!!!!

Even though I like soft sponges in general, I never really liked 05FX.  It was just too flyaway and catapulty for me - found it hard to use in comparison with soft ESN or even the other FX tenergys.

That said, it's hard for me to give a good answer to your question mate - I don't know enough about what you're doing in those situations.  All I can say is that I find Rozena to be much more predictable and sensible in the low gears in general, and I would expect that to be the case in comparison with something like 05FX, yes.  But you would be giving up the early catapult and bounciness of 05FX if you made the switch, and you might not like that!  I'm using Rozena on the BH side on the whole, but I did find it good on the FH side when I tried it there too.  It's less wild than 05FX, but maybe you need that wildness.

Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:

found it to be too soft for my taste...maybe 1.9 mm will feel harder

Possibly, but I'm not sure it will be enough of a difference for you.  It's definitely softer than regular tenergy sponge hardness, and not everyone will like that.  The arc also flattens out more than you might expect on harder, direct hits for a medium density sponge.

Originally posted by PringlesRingles PringlesRingles wrote:

Viscaria light?

Nope, but the handle is close to that isn't it?  It isn't Butterfly.

Originally posted by kuifje kuifje wrote:

Could anyone compare Rozena to Rasanter and/or EL-S?

EL-S is the closer of the two.  Rozena has better spin in the lower gears (and is slower there too) and higher arc than EL-S.  Both have reasonable catapult on harder hits with EL-S being a bit faster at the top end.

Rasanter is a different beast really, although I suppose it depends on which version you want to compare.  R47 is harder in sponge and topsheet, faster pretty much everywhere, is more linear, more demanding, similar arc on harder hits, more direct feel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vajica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2017 at 5:05am
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Even though I like soft sponges in general, I never really liked 05FX.  It was just too flyaway and catapulty for me - found it hard to use in comparison with soft ESN or even the other FX tenergys.

That said, it's hard for me to give a good answer to your question mate - I don't know enough about what you're doing in those situations.  All I can say is that I find Rozena to be much more predictable and sensible in the low gears in general, and I would expect that to be the case in comparison with something like 05FX, yes.  But you would be giving up the early catapult and bounciness of 05FX if you made the switch, and you might not like that!  I'm using Rozena on the BH side on the whole, but I did find it good on the FH side when I tried it there too.  It's less wild than 05FX, but maybe you need that wildness.


That says a lot, thanks!

I hated 05FX when I tried it on some ALC blades (TB ALC, I ALC), but on this soft-ish 7ply Off- Hadraw blade it is much tamer than I would ever thought it'd be.
I actually saw the blade of German 2. Bundesliga Player Thomas Brosig playing Hadraw SK with 05fx on both sides, that's why I glued it on fh to try.

About my 'save' moves, I usually try to fish balls as low as possible with lots of top/side spin, in order to get back in position and keep with looping rally whenever I can, I literally never chop on FH side.

That's why some liveliness comes handy if I can get good spin from the wrist only - that messes the opponent's timing a lot.
But I highly doubt that Rozena is a dead rubber, could be close enough to what I have now with just a little more feeling. I am just afraid that it would be a bit too hard after P7 and 05FX...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2017 at 7:15am
Originally posted by vajica vajica wrote:


About my 'save' moves, I usually try to fish balls as low as possible with lots of top/side spin, in order to get back in position and keep with looping rally whenever I can, I literally never chop on FH side.

That's why some liveliness comes handy if I can get good spin from the wrist only - that messes the opponent's timing a lot.
But I highly doubt that Rozena is a dead rubber, could be close enough to what I have now with just a little more feeling. I am just afraid that it would be a bit too hard after P7 and 05FX...

When I'm on the run and desperate, I tend to chop on the BH side and fish on the FH side.  Not sure why - it just works better for me that way.  Rozena actually chops quite well in this kind of situation, but it does need a bit of effort - it doesn't feel as sharp as ESN, or as immediately bouncy as the FX sponges.  It's only dead-er-er in the passive game - the spin is surprisingly excellent as soon as you work the ball in any way.

And effort is the key - it needs a bit more "whatever" to get the job done - wrist in your case I guess.  Although it does feel harder than 05FX, it's a bit softer than P7 IMO, so I don't think that will be a problem as such for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2017 at 12:54pm
Andy thank you a lot for the pictures. The blade has viscaria light handle cups and I think it is a dhs arylate-carbon?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2017 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

Andy thank you a lot for the pictures. The blade has viscaria light handle cups and I think it is a dhs arylate-carbon?!

It's a bit of an unfair tease by me really.  It's yet to be released.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote hidasjoki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2017 at 3:50pm
Rozena is amazing on an ITC XC blade. Had a chance to hit with it a week ago and it really played excellent from mid distance. The spin surprised me as well. 

<3
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