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Butterfly Revoldia CNF

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2020 at 9:46am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

Very generous of butterfly to 'recommend' the Tenergy line for this blade and not Dignics

Boy do I need help here.  Can any of our most knowledgeable posters explain to the less developed the subtle or otherwise distinction Butterfly is making in recommending Tenergy here and not Dignics?

It first seems surprising Butterfly would produce a new blade and recommend the not-most-current offensive rubber.

A creeping sense of complexity is shadowing me.

Thanks.

Possibly because Tenergy is most popular rubber, selling with Tenergy sells more of this blade then selling with Dignics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 7:17am
 
Originally posted by kuifje kuifje wrote:

Originally posted by SmileTT SmileTT wrote:

Originally posted by windysummer1 windysummer1 wrote:

What does CNF stand for ?

Cellulose Nano-fiber

That's just paper, isn't it?Wink
In a german forum someone mentioned that this kind of cellulose  ist usually used as top layer of laminates and your Kutchen - „countertop“ (not sure of this is the correct translation).

The benefit of this fibre is that it is also made out of wood. That means that you don`t need special glue (like Epoxy). You can simple use a natural glue like it is used in all-wood-blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kucharski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 7:54am
So is it the same concept of victas dynawood technology?
Impossible is really impossible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 9:37am
Originally posted by kucharski kucharski wrote:

So is it the same concept of victas dynawood technology?

umm... don't think so ... here's the description of Dynawood...

The secret is the new Dynawood Technology – this innovative material is made of countless, extremely thin wood fibres which are joined in a complex process.


and here's an image, explaining CNF ..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 11:34am
Butterfly online says $369. It's all wood and glue, less than a square foot and the thickness is measured in millimeters. For Kiso Hinoki, trees that have to grow for 200-250 years in a particular region, those I can understand why there would be a premium. This? It requires more explanation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 12:15pm
$285 on ProTT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Butterfly online says $369. It's all wood and glue, less than a square foot and the thickness is measured in millimeters. For Kiso Hinoki, trees that have to grow for 200-250 years in a particular region, those I can understand why there would be a premium. This? It requires more explanation.
they are pulling the greatest heist off yet. The bets are open as to how many suckers are gonna fall for that one. 

"the enhanced feel and flexier loops with impactful direct hits!!!" The marketing circus is assembling its tent.

"ayee,..., ayo,..., revoldia we go,..."

"roses are red, violets are blue,
wait 'til the nano glue."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Butterfly online says $369. It's all wood and glue, less than a square foot and the thickness is measured in millimeters. For Kiso Hinoki, trees that have to grow for 200-250 years in a particular region, those I can understand why there would be a premium. This? It requires more explanation.
they are pulling the greatest heist off yet. The bets are open as to how many suckers are gonna fall for that one. 

"the enhanced feel and flexier loops with impactful direct hits!!!" The marketing circus is assembling its tent.

"ayee,..., ayo,..., revoldia we go,..."

"roses are red, violets are blue,
wait 'til the nano glue."
no problem, I hear there is a call to not pay rent for April (maybe further) in the US, if that goes into effect people can buy 2 or 3 of these

Edited by tom - 04/02/2020 at 1:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longrange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2020 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

Originally posted by kucharski kucharski wrote:

So is it the same concept of victas dynawood technology?

umm... don't think so ... here's the description of Dynawood...

The secret is the new Dynawood Technology – this innovative material is made of countless, extremely thin wood fibres which are joined in a complex process.


and here's an image, explaining CNF ..



...which looks exactly the same from the description.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2020 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Butterfly online says $369. It's all wood and glue, less than a square foot and the thickness is measured in millimeters. For Kiso Hinoki, trees that have to grow for 200-250 years in a particular region, those I can understand why there would be a premium. This? It requires more explanation.
they are pulling the greatest heist off yet. The bets are open as to how many suckers are gonna fall for that one. 

"the enhanced feel and flexier loops with impactful direct hits!!!" The marketing circus is assembling its tent.

"ayee,..., ayo,..., revoldia we go,..."

"roses are red, violets are blue,
wait 'til the nano glue."


I'm sure people were saying the same thing about Dignics, and it turned out to be a great success.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2020 at 7:41am
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Butterfly online says $369. It's all wood and glue, less than a square foot and the thickness is measured in millimeters. For Kiso Hinoki, trees that have to grow for 200-250 years in a particular region, those I can understand why there would be a premium. This? It requires more explanation.
they are pulling the greatest heist off yet. The bets are open as to how many suckers are gonna fall for that one. 

"the enhanced feel and flexier loops with impactful direct hits!!!" The marketing circus is assembling its tent.

"ayee,..., ayo,..., revoldia we go,..."

"roses are red, violets are blue,
wait 'til the nano glue."


I'm sure people were saying the same thing about Dignics, and it turned out to be a great success.


@ IDK, I agree totally. I don't understand the disparaging comments. USA is supposed to be a country that understands business yet we have posters quoting material costs as if that's the only thing that affects pricing.
The fact is that none us here will play better with a blade costing more that £50. Every blade over £50 is pure indulgence. My blade costs £300+. It's indulgence bordering on stupidity. But guess what? I love the blade. It does not improve my game over a £50 blade but so what? I enjoy the playing experience.

It's like comparing a Honda Civic to a BMW 3 series. For our daily driving needs, the Honda is quite adequate. However, I'm sure most of us would choose the Bimmer if we could afford it.


Edited by Tinykin - 04/04/2020 at 6:49pm
Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2020 at 2:11pm
Sure we all agree on that. Congrats on the buyers. Can't wait to read the reviews and LMAOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2020 at 12:27pm
https://youtu.be/zQfDF-UY760

i found this review of the blade but no subtitle in english
Blade: ZJ SZLC, Garayda 5000 Matador Texa
Rubbers: FH::Symmetry SP BH: Tenergy Hard, FH: MoristoSP ax BH: Tenergy Hard,FH:Desperado 2 BH: Omega 7 Asia   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2020 at 2:51pm
 
Originally posted by DarkerMyLove DarkerMyLove wrote:

Is this Koto outer?
Yes, it definitely has a koto outer layer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2020 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Sure we all agree on that. Congrats on the buyers. Can't wait to read the reviews and LMAOL.


What is there to laugh about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BauerPower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2020 at 5:58pm
Thanks for the high quality picture!

Looks like koto, then CNF, then ?spruce?, and then ?kiri? for the core?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2020 at 6:39pm
The core on the left of the silver tag looks different than from the right, cut in a different angle or comes from a different tree altogether, indicating they keep using several pieces of wood to build their cores, and some specialists here say it's ok. I still find weird that top of the line material can't afford 1-piece cores like Xiom advertises for example but it's true that if the blade behaves the exact same then it's just perception and pickyness.


Edited by stiltt - 04/07/2020 at 6:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2020 at 2:13am
What do you see there? Wood is a natural product, which is not 100% equal on any place. If you have an own blade with kiri core, please look around the blade and you will see lots of different structures in the core.

Here are pictures of 2 Vega Pro. Didn`t you say that Xiom uses a "jointless core"?


And here another picture of the Vega Pro core, where you can see the usual unequal core structure


Do you really think, that the Vega Pro core looks better than the core of the Revoldia?
I hold the Revoldia in my hands and can not see any indication for several core pieces.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackcerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2020 at 5:21am
any reviews of the blade?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2020 at 6:28am
The composition seems to be Koto / CNF / Ayous / Kiri.

Definitely a one piece core. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2020 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Sure we all agree on that. Congrats on the buyers. Can't wait to read the reviews and LMAOL.


What is there to laugh about?
https://shop.butterflyonline.com/Revoldia-CNF
Almost $400 for a 5-ply all wood to which 2 plies of wood dust mixed with glue were added: if you do not find that laughable, I do.


Edited by stiltt - 04/08/2020 at 4:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by gatz gatz wrote:

https://youtu.be/zQfDF-UY760

i found this review of the blade but no subtitle in english


Any explanation please help.
Nittaku Acoustic Carbon FL
Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 FH
Butterfly Dignics 05 2.1 BH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Sure we all agree on that. Congrats on the buyers. Can't wait to read the reviews and LMAOL.


What is there to laugh about?
https://shop.butterflyonline.com/Revoldia-CNF
Almost $400 for a 5-ply all wood to which 2 plies of wood dust mixed with glue were added: if you do not find that laughable, I do.

Why is that more laughable than the same price for an SZLC blade?  At least with the CNF the average player might play better than with an SZLC.  On that basis they should charge $600 for CNF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longrange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Almost $400 for a 5-ply all wood to which 2 plies of wood dust mixed with glue were added: if you do not find that laughable, I do.

Then carbon blades are just 5 plies + coal (dust I guess?)?
ALC/ZLC are just 5 plies plus coal plus cloth?
It's overpriced, ok, but the story is not quite that dumb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 2:51pm
What the other two guys said. I'll wait until I get feedback from trusted sources to judge, but it seems like you have your mind made up on the quality of the blade just based on the price. How are you so convinced already that the blade is no good?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

What the other two guys said. I'll wait until I get feedback from trusted sources to judge, but it seems like you have your mind made up on the quality of the blade just based on the price. How are you so convinced already that the blade is no good?
I am sure it will be very good, what I am not so sure about is how much the compliments will be related to the apparent quality that the price infer. It's like spending $15,000 to spend 2 weeks at Bora Bora: you are f**king bored as soon as the 3rd day starts but when you come home, you can only tell all your friends that you spent the best vacation of your life or you would look like an idiot.


But what about $15k in 2 weeks in St Barts and then Anguilla?

Seriously, stiltt - we need to accept this: In the US, TT is a relatively inexpensive sport. Do you know how much families spend on skiing here or dads spend on golf? Membership at the local tennis club near me is $8,500 annually. And it is really popular despite the fact that our towns have plenty of free courts available.

We just have to admit it and move on: for some of us (especially in the NY Tristate area / Bay Area in CA), the $350 difference in blade price is not significant if it lasts an year or more. Median bill if my 3 friends and I go to a decent (not great) restaurant in NYC is $350 without drinks.

So, then begs the question: Why is it bad for a TT company to make a (possibly) slightly better blade for those that can afford it? Why must they only cater to my or your budget and if not, they must be evil? 


Edited by slevin - 04/09/2020 at 5:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

What the other two guys said. I'll wait until I get feedback from trusted sources to judge, but it seems like you have your mind made up on the quality of the blade just based on the price. How are you so convinced already that the blade is no good?
I am sure it will be very good, what I am not so sure about is how much the compliments will be related to the apparent quality that the price infer. It's like spending $15,000 to spend 2 weeks at Bora Bora: you are f**king bored as soon as the 3rd day starts but when you come home, you can only tell all your friends that you spent the best vacation of your life or you would look like an idiot.


But what about $15k in 2 weeks in St Barts and then Anguilla?

Seriously, stiltt - we need to accept this: In the US, TT is a relatively inexpensive sport. Do you know how much families spend on skiing here or dads spend on golf? Membership at the local tennis club near me is $8,500 annually. And it is really popular despite the fact that our towns have plenty of free courts available.

We just have to admit it and move on: for some of us (especially in the NY Tristate area / Bay Area in CA), the $350 difference in blade price is not significant if it lasts an year or more. Median bill if my 3 friends and I go to a decent (not great) restaurant in NYC is $350 without drinks.

So, then begs the question: Why is it bad for a TT company to make a (possibly) slightly better blade for those that can afford it? Why must they only cater to my or your budget and if not, they must be evil? 


because butterfly is the devil for making the best blades and rubbers and charging accordingly for it. LOL granted, the super ZLC blades haven't taken off tremendously in popularity, likely due to the price and marginal performance differences, but thus, the market spoke and not many people bought it. however, the first year of dignics has been a big success because it does provide a lot of major benefits over tenergy which was already the best rubber in the market for a decade and counting.

if the same thing that happened with SZLC happens with CNF, so be it. or maybe it will be a success again. not sure why someone who has no interest in buying it would care about the price and go out of their way to laugh at people who do choose to make that purchase.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 6:13pm
We know Butterfly are really good at building blades, it will be of great quality of course. 

I have owned 2 MJ SZLC and each time I did not experience that sparkly moment when you feel like you really got something out of the ordinary. I had it with the regular mj, the mmaze alc, the barwell fleet, the violin, the apolonia, the nexy spear, the avalox P500, the xiom aria and vega pro, a lot of borko and ross leidy, the ludeack power pro, the andro kinetic supreme zylon hinoki, the 1st osp ultimate, the dotec hinoki, the speed 90, the darker 7p-2a-7t and I forget many that enchanted me. I never had the spark with any MJ SZLC I owned or ZJK SZLC I borrowed. The price was probably the cause because I expected more, I think with a valid reason.

Let's say I find something that cost $129 a fantastic blade but give me the same at $400 and I'll go "meh....": is this irrational?

I expect the Revoldia to act as a powerful 5-ply that plays crispier than a softish 7-ply ultimate, the dust coats compensating for the harder koto? We'll see. I'll try it for sure, for the heck of it, I am curious about the technology.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2020 at 5:30am
My own Revoldia has a weight of 88g. I hope I will get used to the flared handle.
Normally I clearly prefer ST handles, but the Revoldia is only available with FL.




Unfortunately there is no chance for a real training here in Germany.
And I don't think that this will be possible again before the end of August.


Edited by Magic_M - 04/10/2020 at 5:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2020 at 10:21am
Originally posted by Magic_M Magic_M wrote:

What do you see there? Wood is a natural product, which is not 100% equal on any place. If you have an own blade with kiri core, please look around the blade and you will see lots of different structures in the core.

Here are pictures of 2 Vega Pro. Didn`t you say that Xiom uses a "jointless core"?


And here another picture of the Vega Pro core, where you can see the usual unequal core structure


Do you really think, that the Vega Pro core looks better than the core of the Revoldia?
I hold the Revoldia in my hands and can not see any indication for several core pieces.


Hi Magic_m, your pictures are great as usual, especially in the last post right above. 

I am sure the Revoldia is great. It looks so good! the edge pictures are fantastic. What is the CNF ply? is it the white one? or the very thin black one?

About the core in multiple pieces: it is just a picky remark. Yes I see multiple pieces on the Revoldia and also there, on Butterfly's website:


I am talking about this picture:


Here is a zoom, what do you think?

Edit:
Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:

The composition seems to be Koto / CNF / Ayous / Kiri.

Definitely a one piece core. 
I am taking the opportunity to ask Hipnotic as well since he seems well introduced.







Edited by stiltt - 04/10/2020 at 12:21pm
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