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Chinese forehand Vs. Euro forehand?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2010 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Fruit loop Fruit loop wrote:

I now understand where i went wrong in my description. What I really meant was that with a euro stroke you hit through the sponge more directly and into the blade. Whereas the chinese stroke should rarely ever 'hit the blade' if this makes sense.

I also disagree with needing a coach for a certain type of stroke. I've taught myself and havn't had any issues. (No one uses chinese rubber at my club.)
 
The part where you say the chinese stroke should rarely ever hit the blade is not true either.  Sometimes you hit the blade alot.  Sometimes you don't.  Depends on the shot you're trying to do.  As for the coaching part... I personally know a few players who can "use" chinese rubber very nicely without coaching.  However, their improvised strokes are no where near maximizing what the rubbers capabilities nor are they using their own "power" correctly.  You can probably get away with these improvised strokes up to about 1800-2000 and still stay/win in a game.  However with levels above that where power, speed, spin, penetrating power truly matter because everyone can block/counter like madmen (at least at my club), improvised strokes won't generate enough of all 3 to be effective agaist players of that level.  Due to that, your overall ceiling of development is lowered due to all the bad habits you now have in muscle memory which will be ultra hard to unlearn and learn properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2010 at 6:36pm
I'm not by any means a superb TT player.  I've only played for a few years.  I'm really not that good (but I enjoy it).  I was very good at baseball, however, and played division I college baseball as a pitcher.  One lucky friend of mine even made a pro-ball roster (though I don't believe he ever played in a game). 

We had pitching coaches, batting coaches, etc.  Some of the guys that end up coaching were very good players... but I have to say that the only thing they were really good for were producing mass numbers of people with the same cookie cutter style.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I never learned anything from them... but by no means did I need them.  Pretty much every skill I had was self taught. 

Now, TT may be a bit different.  With pitching, there is a large benefit to having a unique form, and there are plenty of ways to get your ball to go fast and/or break sharply.  Not to mention, there is a much larger physical component that relies on your muscles. Table Tennis is probably a little bit more mechanical, where the physics heavily favor specific approaches... but I think a lot of the same principles in my example might apply.

Doing something different than other people can definitely be an advantage, and innovation only occurs through unique ideas and and individual development. 

I don't necessarily disagree that most people would heavily benefit from a coach (I probably would)... but for some people it can just lead to unnatural feeling movements that only make them worse (I've seen a lot of good ball players fall prey to this)... and you'd be surprised just how good you can get with your own techniques..  This holds true for a lot of sports, and I'm sure it holds true in TT as well..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2010 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by cntcasey cntcasey wrote:

So what would happen if a player played with a euro rubber but used the Chinese stroke? What would be the result?
 
the ball ends up slipping and dies into the net without much force. it's all about the sponge for those suckers...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imzadim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2010 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Fruit loop Fruit loop wrote:

.I also disagree with needing a coach for a certain type of stroke. I've taught myself and havn't had any issues. (No one uses chinese rubber at my club.)

Not everybody can coach themselves (most can't!). Kudos to you for being able to do just that, but in general, I would recommend to use a style that matches what you coach can teach you better. For example, if I was a penholder I would probably prefer a penholder teacher, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2010 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

Originally posted by cntcasey cntcasey wrote:

So what would happen if a player played with a euro rubber but used the Chinese stroke? What would be the result?
 
the ball ends up slipping and dies into the net without much force. it's all about the sponge for those suckers...
 
Bingo Big%20smile.  Either that or they think all they have to do is "graze" so its all spin but no real power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2010 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by AgentSmith AgentSmith wrote:

I'm not by any means a superb TT player.  I've only played for a few years.  I'm really not that good (but I enjoy it).  I was very good at baseball, however, and played division I college baseball as a pitcher.  One lucky friend of mine even made a pro-ball roster (though I don't believe he ever played in a game). 

We had pitching coaches, batting coaches, etc.  Some of the guys that end up coaching were very good players... but I have to say that the only thing they were really good for were producing mass numbers of people with the same cookie cutter style.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I never learned anything from them... but by no means did I need them.  Pretty much every skill I had was self taught. 

Now, TT may be a bit different.  With pitching, there is a large benefit to having a unique form, and there are plenty of ways to get your ball to go fast and/or break sharply.  Not to mention, there is a much larger physical component that relies on your muscles. Table Tennis is probably a little bit more mechanical, where the physics heavily favor specific approaches... but I think a lot of the same principles in my example might apply.

Doing something different than other people can definitely be an advantage, and innovation only occurs through unique ideas and and individual development. 

I don't necessarily disagree that most people would heavily benefit from a coach (I probably would)... but for some people it can just lead to unnatural feeling movements that only make them worse (I've seen a lot of good ball players fall prey to this)... and you'd be surprised just how good you can get with your own techniques..  This holds true for a lot of sports, and I'm sure it holds true in TT as well..
 
In TT, usually the unnatural moments feel unnatural because if you're self taught, you've hammered your own strokes into your muscle memory so the correct proper strokes don't feel natural which is why many coaches like to start on little kids.  No unnautral bad habits to get rid of before you program them correctly and the correct way becomes their natural way because they don't know any other way.  After you hammer bad habits to yourself... a one step easy learning experience becomes a multistep step of unlearn everything from your muscle memory and try to relearn correctly with bad habits creeping in the middle of your learning disrupting your every move.  Makes it 10x harder when you have to reprogram everything from strokes, to bad footwork, to timing one at a time then try to reassemble everything back together and make it work in harmony without any of the old stuff creeping back in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2010 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

Originally posted by cntcasey cntcasey wrote:

So what would happen if a player played with a euro rubber but used the Chinese stroke? What would be the result?
 
the ball ends up slipping and dies into the net without much force. it's all about the sponge for those suckers...
 
 ...its all spin but no real power.
 
that's called a stinky!LOL hard to deal with those. very annoying when it's done by a guy who kind of misses his bh loop and does that as a result :)
deadly like a nun's fart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2010 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

Originally posted by cntcasey cntcasey wrote:

So what would happen if a player played with a euro rubber but used the Chinese stroke? What would be the result?
 
the ball ends up slipping and dies into the net without much force. it's all about the sponge for those suckers...
 ...its all spin but no real power.
that's called a stinky!LOL hard to deal with those. very annoying when it's done by a guy who kind of misses his bh loop and does that as a result :)
deadly like a nun's fart.
 
Hahaha a stinky.... have to start using that! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruit loop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2010 at 12:21am
Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

Originally posted by Fruit loop Fruit loop wrote:

I now understand where i went wrong in my description. What I really meant was that with a euro stroke you hit through the sponge more directly and into the blade. Whereas the chinese stroke should rarely ever 'hit the blade' if this makes sense.

I also disagree with needing a coach for a certain type of stroke. I've taught myself and havn't had any issues. (No one uses chinese rubber at my club.)
 
The part where you say the chinese stroke should rarely ever hit the blade is not true either.  Sometimes you hit the blade alot.  Sometimes you don't.  Depends on the shot you're trying to do.  As for the coaching part... I personally know a few players who can "use" chinese rubber very nicely without coaching.  However, their improvised strokes are no where near maximizing what the rubbers capabilities nor are they using their own "power" correctly.  You can probably get away with these improvised strokes up to about 1800-2000 and still stay/win in a game.  However with levels above that where power, speed, spin, penetrating power truly matter because everyone can block/counter like madmen (at least at my club), improvised strokes won't generate enough of all 3 to be effective agaist players of that level.  Due to that, your overall ceiling of development is lowered due to all the bad habits you now have in muscle memory which will be ultra hard to unlearn and learn properly.


Are you generalising or reffering to me with your example?

The point I was trying to convey was that you can research the technique and implement it in your own game. There is a basic template but every player will look different in the way they play the shot. There isn't just 'one' technique. This is the reason why every chinese player has a different body mechanic for their shot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2010 at 12:45am
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 In TT, usually the unnatural moments feel unnatural because if you're self taught, you've hammered your own strokes into your muscle memory so the correct proper strokes don't feel natural which is why many coaches like to start on little kids.  No unnautral bad habits to get rid of before you program them correctly and the correct way becomes their natural way because they don't know any other way.  After you hammer bad habits to yourself... a one step easy learning experience becomes a multistep step of unlearn everything from your muscle memory and try to relearn correctly with bad habits creeping in the middle of your learning disrupting your every move.  Makes it 10x harder when you have to reprogram everything from strokes, to bad footwork, to timing one at a time then try to reassemble everything back together and make it work in harmony without any of the old stuff creeping back in.


I don't disagree that obvious "bad habits" are a great disadvantage to improving... and like I said, I'm sure TT allows for less freedom in style than other sports... but I think there is a lot more to take into consideration. 

As I mentioned in the previous post, I see a few problems with cookie cutter techniques (i.e. the technique/style of one man, passed down the same way to all his students).  They don't take into consideration the body type, flexibility, build or physical characteristics of the individual.  Everyone does it one way.  It doesn't matter if that approach is comfortable to perform, fluid, or whether or not the person is capable of performing it effectively.  When a person in any given sport teaches themselves something, they naturally gravitate away from the restrictive or physically uncomfortable motions.

There are also a lot of challenges when teaching someone else to perform a complicated mechanical motion.  I'm mostly drawing my experience from other sports (which are indeed different than TT), but many times the best way of teaching such intricate motions are more hands off approaches.  Telling someone to rotate their shoulders, then dip their arm, then rotate their wrist, etc. can often lead to confusion and misapplication of the instructions by the student.  Verbal communication is a horrible way to pass information about complicated body movements.  I've noticed the best instructors I've had would take a very general approach, and leave the rest up to the student to figure out their own way.  "Try bringing your arm more over the top", "try to stay more balanced before you move forward", etc etc.  This helps the student get a better basic idea of the proper form, while leaving it mostly up to them to achieve it.  While this type of instruction is often more helpful, these general lessons can be learned from a variety of sources (aside from a coach).  Which brings me to my final point...

There are a lot of other ways to get the information you need.    You have Books, the internet, DVDs, watching other players and even video taping yourself.  If you are a good enough self study, you probably can get access to almost all of the information you need.

Now, I do concede that most people don't learn well by themselves.. and they can do more damage than good if they develop a host of bad habits.  However, I've noticed that there are a good proportion of very skilled athletes who have gotten very far with little outside intervention.  Some of the best athletes I know have developed their own drills, their own practice routines, their own unique styles and have succeeded by developing their own understanding of the sports they play.  While many other do have coaches and individuals to give instruction to them, most will still have their own personal style and deviation that suits them.

I'm certainly no TT expert though, so I admit that my points might not hold as true here... but I've seen nothing to suggest that paying a coach is the end all or be all to success in table tennis.. If people can achieve high levels of skill in other sports without personal instruction, I don't really see why it can't happen in this sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2010 at 12:55am
BTW, anyone want to be brave and post a youtube video of how they approach shots with the different types of rubber?  I'm really very interested in it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2010 at 5:50am
Originally posted by AgentSmith AgentSmith wrote:

BTW, anyone want to be brave and post a youtube video of how they approach shots with the different types of rubber?  I'm really very interested in it. 


like euro rubber swing and chinese rubber swing?
www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imzadim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2010 at 7:01am
Originally posted by AgentSmith AgentSmith wrote:

BTW, anyone want to be brave and post a youtube video of how they approach shots with the different types of rubber? I'm really very interested in it.


The video that the OP linked more or less shows this:
http://www.alphatabletennis.com/clips/06-09.html

On front you see Michael maze and on the background you see Ma Long, so you can compare them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2010 at 10:20am
Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

Originally posted by AgentSmith AgentSmith wrote:

BTW, anyone want to be brave and post a youtube video of how they approach shots with the different types of rubber?  I'm really very interested in it. 


like euro rubber swing and chinese rubber swing?


Exactly..

I did look at the video at the top, but the angles were pretty different and it looked like the intensity was too.  I do see some obvious differences, but I was hoping for something a little bit more along the lines of a technical analysis  (a couple angles from each, side by side comparison, commentary - that sort of thing)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thaidog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/24/2010 at 12:20am
Originally posted by Imzadim Imzadim wrote:

Originally posted by AgentSmith AgentSmith wrote:

BTW, anyone want to be brave and post a youtube video of how they approach shots with the different types of rubber?  I'm really very interested in it. 


The video that the OP linked more or less shows this:
http://www.alphatabletennis.com/clips/06-09.html

On front you see Michael maze and on the background you see Ma Long, so you can compare them.


+1 - Notice how Ma coils back much more and in his follow through how his elbow is, on average, higher as well as the blade position. He drops the blade low and uses his arm for more of the vertical motion while allowing his torso to fully release. One of the biggest forehands in the game no doubt. A very nice release but has a signature Chinese style follow throw.

Maze is more compact and uses less arm movement - he finshes less around his body than Ma. In slow motion it kind of reminds me of Timo's compact style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 1:35am
In chinese forums, there's been a similar discussion of these 2 types of forehand. The wrist mechanism of producing spin is completely different, causing the outward appearance of the stroke to be different as well. For those who understand Chinese, the key is whether the wrist is 外展(bent outwards) or not.

Now as an illustration: Lift your computer mouse upwards with just your wrist while using it normally. That's bending your wrist outwards.(手腕外展) Bring it down the other direction as far as possible and it's called bending your wrist inwards(手腕内收)

I've practiced this by following instructions in Chinese forums and it's definitely not a "brush loop". It looks as if they brush due to the fact cocking your wrist outwards makes the blade face more horizontal to the ground. But when they hit the ball it's almost always perpendicular to the ground.

To practice this is very easy, Here's what I did: with your wrist bent outwards holding a mouse,  turn it left and right like a windshield wiper. (like saying hello!) That is the wrist mechanism for producing spin.

Then turn your lower arm 90 degrees clockwise to make the motion go upwards. Now hold a bat and try to spin the ball with just your wrist. As you get better at producing spin, use your arm more. And most importantly , relax!

I practiced it in front of a curtain until i can get the ball to spin very violently with just using my whole arm(no waist rotation yet). And by violently i mean the spin will cause the ball to roll up to the top of the curtain after hitting it and you can hear the ball make a pssst sound.

I just learnt this during the last 3 mths summer holiday. I'll post a video after I go back to australia.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 4:47am
Bullsh*t.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 5:33am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

In chinese forums, there's been a similar discussion of these 2 types of forehand. The wrist mechanism of producing spin is completely different, causing the outward appearance of the stroke to be different as well. For those who understand Chinese, the key is whether the wrist is 外展(bent outwards) or not.

Now as an illustration: Lift your computer mouse upwards with just your wrist while using it normally. That's bending your wrist outwards.(手腕外展) Bring it down the other direction as far as possible and it's called bending your wrist inwards(手腕内收)

I've practiced this by following instructions in Chinese forums and it's definitely not a "brush loop". It looks as if they brush due to the fact cocking your wrist outwards makes the blade face more horizontal to the ground. But when they hit the ball it's almost always perpendicular to the ground.

To practice this is very easy, Here's what I did: with your wrist bent outwards holding a mouse,  turn it left and right like a windshield wiper. (like saying hello!) That is the wrist mechanism for producing spin.

Then turn your lower arm 90 degrees clockwise to make the motion go upwards. Now hold a bat and try to spin the ball with just your wrist. As you get better at producing spin, use your arm more. And most importantly , relax!

I practiced it in front of a curtain until i can get the ball to spin very violently with just using my whole arm(no waist rotation yet). And by violently i mean the spin will cause the ball to roll up to the top of the curtain after hitting it and you can hear the ball make a pssst sound.

I just learnt this during the last 3 mths summer holiday. I'll post a video after I go back to australia.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 7:40am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Bullsh*t.


It is precisely this type of attitude that prevents you from learning more and improving.

On another note, Petr Korbel invented the backhand sidespin banana loop, but look at the Chinese players now. They use it much more successfully than any other player. The reason why Waldner was on the top for so many years was that he kept adjusting and innovating. He's always copying and developing new techniques to complement his play. Look at Timo Boll and Samsonov. I can't see them any different from 2003 and 2004. Look at 2005 Ma Long vs 2010 Ma Long, it's a world of difference. There's vast improvements in footwork, power, speed, new serves, etc... WLQ improved on speed,footwork and BH recently. Xu Xin's short balls and serves improved dramatically last year, etc.  

I just think it's just stupid(especially top players) not to learn from the Chinese, who are currently the best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnkh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 9:55am
i think chinese way of loop is better for spin? and euro way is more for speed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 11:10am
blahness

Are you a penholder by any chance?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ryanstare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I practiced it in front of a curtain until i can get the ball to spin very violently with just using my whole arm(no waist rotation yet). And by violently i mean the spin will cause the ball to roll up to the top of the curtain after hitting it and you can hear the ball make a pssst sound. I just learnt this during the last 3 mths summer holiday. I'll post a video after I go back to australia.

Wow, that's pretty impressive.
Thanks for the illustration, big help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 12:44pm
blahness

Petr Korbel plays the topsin/sidespin loop on his backhand wing and he didn't invent it either; as I remember players using that stroke, as far back as the late seventies.

Your description of using wrist on loops is also only advisable for players, who already have a well developed and consistent topspin loop and wish to add sidespin.

We in Europe also refer to it as the "broken wrist" and it's a common mistake you see at coaching in players, who are beginners or lower level players; who've yet to develop the technique required to loop consistently and they use it to try and compensate, for their flawed technique.

Instead of trying to run before you can walk, learn how to develop the correct technique and footwork to generate good speed and topspin, on your loops; rather than complicating the stroke with sidespin, from wrist action.

It will make you a better player in the long run, if you learn to develop a consistent topspin loop through good technique; before learning how to use wrist movement, as that is an advanced technique to add; after you've learnt to topspin loop consistently.

Years ago, I remember talking to a workmate about marathon running and we were speaking from experience , as both of us were seasoned runners and had Marathon medals, to our name.

Somebody in the office listened to what we'd said and then repeated it verbatim to try and impress someone else. I overheard this conversation and asked her to explain what she meant by one phrase. Needless to say, she couldn't and wondered why, we didn't take her seriously.

Because she was repeating something she didn't fully understand, she lacked the experience and background knowledge required, to be able to explain it properly. As a result I ended up providing the explanation to the person she'd been talking too and I was also able to answer further questions about it, as well.

You likewise are repeating something you've read on Chinese forums, without fully understanding how it fits into the context with the rest of the loop and  sadly your advice is not something I can take seriously and neither can APW46, hence the reason when he wrote Bullsh*t.

p.s. The topspin/sidepsin loop, is a shot I play on both wings; along with straight topspin loops and I'm able to mix the two to vary my attack, on either wing.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Bullsh*t.


It is precisely this type of attitude that prevents you from learning more and improving. 

 No its not, its my dismay at the drivel that gets posted by people who speculate. The whole issue of this thread is over complicated, and when it comes to learning about TT I can assure you I have been into the depths of stroke production techniques like you can only dream about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 2:16pm
APW and Peter C:

First, know that I respect both of you. (APW, this shouldn't be a surprise; but Peter C, just in case you're wondering, I do. Smile) Therefore, the question I'm about to ask is in no way meant to be disrespectful or confrontational. I'm just trying to further the dialogue. That being said...

I'm wondering, have either of you two ever trained with (not played against) but trained with any high-level, modern Chinese players?

The reason I ask is for my own benefit, really. For example, I find that many of the things that you guys scoff at actually resonate accurately with what I've heard from my friends who train in China. I don't want to feel stupid, or take in useless information. So I'm confused why you two, who are obviously knowledgeable, experienced, and skilled in table tennis, are so critical and skeptical of information that I've received from others--who are also knowledgeable, experienced, and skilled. Do you see my dilemma? How can two proven sources seem to put forth such contradictory information?

So, I'm wondering if it sounds like silliness to you guys because it's not part of your region's training regimen. That is to say, in the U.K. (and perhaps other parts of Europe) these details of looping are "incorrect". Whereas, in China (and perhaps other Asian countries) these details are "correct".

Is this just a case of regional differences in technique, or is one of my sources just stupid? LOL




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 3:13pm
Actually blahness's post is pretty correct (theres a few lil minor tidbits missing) for the Chinese stroke.  They actually do teach that so its definately not BS because even both of the coaches I train under teach that for those using Chinese Stroke/equipment.  My coach is rated 2400+ and his coach is a former Chinese national team member and the former chief coach of Fujian Provincial team so that wrist technique is definately not just from some "article" on some forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 4:23pm
i was too lazy to read the whole thread but i do agree with peter about NOT including the wrist until you have the basic swing right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 4:28pm
Yep I would agree with that also... wrist comes later after the basic swing foundation and tenseness issues are resolved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 4:34pm
I have no time now, but I will respond to the above tomorrow as it requires a detailed answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 4:47pm
Cool APW, it'll be really interesting to hear how the training differs in the UK.  But from what it sounds like, the basic structure sounds similar as it should be.  Step by step one thing at a time.
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