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Chinese forehand Vs. Euro forehand?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 5:10pm
I like this discussion too.

I'll throw in a question:

Is Kong Linghui's forehand loop Chinese or European style?

It looks to me it is Chinese but he was sponsored by Butterfly and using Tackifire, so Tackifire is the same as Chinese rubber?  I think probably is but I have to take a look.

How about Zhang Yining and Guo Yue? 

I think when they train, they will use a modified Chinese forehand strokes to fit with the European/Japanese type of rubbers?

Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:

I like this discussion too.

I'll throw in a question:

Is Kong Linghui's forehand loop Chinese or European style?

It looks to me it is Chinese but he was sponsored by Butterfly and using Tackifire, so Tackifire is the same as Chinese rubber?  I think probably is but I have to take a look.

How about Zhang Yining and Guo Yue? 

I think when they train, they will use a modified Chinese forehand strokes to fit with the European/Japanese type of rubbers?

Thanks.

FireHorse

not sure about KLH.  i believe iv tried tackifire (or was it tackiness chop?) but it wasnt tacky at all.  it just felt like any euro/jap rubber to me.  what a misleading name Dead

Zhang Yining is euro style.  Guo Yue is straight up orthodox chinese style.  i dont really like watching women play but if i had to watch a woman play, it would be her.  she plays like a guy: attack attack attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote figgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 5:24pm

as I mentioned before.

 
the "chinese" forehnd is in fact the OLD hungarian style. Not a chinese stroke ;)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 5:24pm
zhang uses tenergy apparently back when she used to play. klh was a big bryce user back then too. his swing reminds me more of a korean swing than anything (think of oh sang eung)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by figgie figgie wrote:

as I mentioned before.

 
the "chinese" forehnd is in fact the OLD hungarian style. Not a chinese stroke ;)
 
Made popular by the likes of Joyner, Klampar, Gergley etc.


Yeah, I agreed with you on this in other thread but let's say that it's now more Chinese players using it while European not using it anymore hence the Chinese style vs. European style, or should we say "straight arm loop" versus "compact loop"?  But I'm afraid that we will still use Chinese style vs. European style.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:

I like this discussion too.

I'll throw in a question:

Is Kong Linghui's forehand loop Chinese or European style?

It looks to me it is Chinese but he was sponsored by Butterfly and using Tackifire, so Tackifire is the same as Chinese rubber?  I think probably is but I have to take a look.

How about Zhang Yining and Guo Yue? 

I think when they train, they will use a modified Chinese forehand strokes to fit with the European/Japanese type of rubbers?

Thanks.

FireHorse

not sure about KLH.  i believe iv tried tackifire (or was it tackiness chop?) but it wasnt tacky at all.  it just felt like any euro/jap rubber to me.  what a misleading name Dead

Zhang Yining is euro style.  Guo Yue is straight up orthodox chinese style.  i dont really like watching women play but if i had to watch a woman play, it would be her.  she plays like a guy: attack attack attack.


So, it means Zhang Yining not using Chinese style and she dominated in women tournament.  Guo Yue with Chinese style were No. 2 and at one point No. 1.  So, they use the same type of rubbers (which I assume Euro/Japanese rubbers) but they have different strokes.

I think KLH is straight arm loop too, and with Tackifire made him become King Kong so I think it depends on how to play with it.

The main thing, IMHO, is that how you use the rubber to fit with your strokes.  And as Rack said, you need to know how to use the top sheet for brush stroke and how to use the sponge for power.  No style is better but I guess the Chinese style might prevent you from back injury but probably shoulder injury.

No matter what style you play, you probably need to warm-up first, relax while executing those strokes and get enough rest to heal those stresses.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote figgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:

 ... or should we say "straight arm loop" versus "compact loop"?  But I'm afraid that we will still use Chinese style vs. European style.

FireHorse
 
That would be more appropiate.
 
anyway the questin as asked by the op is a loaded and vague question anyway ;)
 
Why does a person A use equipment B with rubber x over person B that uses equipment N with rubber z? It is a choice and nothing more.  Throw into the "fitness" level of most non-world class players (looking like 150 lbs of chewed bubble gm) and then physical ability diminishes which limit what the person can do.
 
There is no such thing as BETTER/BEST as that is all dependant on the person applying the form strokes and thier particular ability.
 
Of course ALL things being equal (which in this reality, they are not), the straight arm loop can produce faster shots than the compact loop if both are done @ 100% of the body's rotational velocity.
 
Now with that said, some peple can jog, others develop knee problems and prefer to swim. Each person has to see what is SUSTAINABLE to them for a long period of time. Most players will NOT have the fitness to sustain straight arm looping in a competiton much less world class play.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 6:12pm
Yep both Euro/Chinese strokes are good.  It just matters which one you prefer.  Like Fig said its just a choice that people make that fits them better.  In the end, both strokes can take you to become a great player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

Yep both Euro/Chinese strokes are good.  It just matters which one you prefer.  Like Fig said its just a choice that people make that fits them better.  In the end, both strokes can take you to become a great player.

BS.  You know deep down inside that the Chinese stroke is far superior Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cousinkenni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:


not sure about KLH.  i believe iv tried tackifire (or was it tackiness chop?) but it wasnt tacky at all.  it just felt like any euro/jap rubber to me.  what a misleading name Dead

Zhang Yining is euro style.  Guo Yue is straight up orthodox chinese style.  i dont really like watching women play but if i had to watch a woman play, it would be her.  she plays like a guy: attack attack attack.


Wow, If you believe that Zhang Yining has a Euro style loop then you need to explain your stance........and you can't just say "its hard to explain" like you did in the other thread when talking about Chaun.  Are you basing this wholly on what type of equipment the players are using????  Please go into details of why you believe she does not have a chinese stroke

Also, do you believe that you cannot perform the chinese stroke with jap/euro rubbers?  what happens when you perform the chinese stroke with euro rubbers.  If this has been posted already please point me to the place where you stated it.

Lastly, what is your final definition of "the chinese stroke"?  First it was that the whole arm is used....now it seems like there is some kind of component of more forward movement?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

Yep both Euro/Chinese strokes are good.  It just matters which one you prefer.  Like Fig said its just a choice that people make that fits them better.  In the end, both strokes can take you to become a great player.

BS.  You know deep down inside that the Chinese stroke is far superior Wink
 
Not really,  Waldner.... nuff said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 6:55pm
Kong was more of a Hybrid.  He was trained in China then sent to Europe to train there to learn what was going on in Europe.  KLH was the 1.0 to Ma Long's current style which is the culmination of what they learned and combined of both Chinese/Euro training.  Heavy emphasis on speed and basics.
 
Zhang Yining has a lil hybrid style too.  Doesn't she use Tenergy?  She has a very heavy emphasis on speed and basics too.  Guo plays like the Chinese mens team... its kinda cool. Big%20smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 7:53pm

I have a question: Where does the Korean Jpen forehand (think Lee Jung Woo and Ryu Seung Min) fall as far as strokes go? Would you consider it its own style? Or is it just Chinese? I like their forehands...so powerful Clap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zwu168 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2010 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

Yep both Euro/Chinese strokes are good.  It just matters which one you prefer.  Like Fig said its just a choice that people make that fits them better.  In the end, both strokes can take you to become a great player.

BS.  You know deep down inside that the Chinese stroke is far superior Wink
 
Not really,  Waldner.... nuff said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 6:42am
Right, first let me deal with the use of the wrist in loop/topspin strokes. The exessive use of the wrist to aid power during loop/loopdriving strokes was particularly evident during the 1970's/ early 80's, it is not some mysterious new technique developed in China. Before speed glue was in widespread use, a whipping action using the elbow and wrist was widely practiced in European countries, an action not too dissimilar to the arm action when skimming a stone, I played this way myself as a junior. When Speed glue started to be used more widely, the necessity for this quite complicated action ceased because adequate power could be achieved via a slower contact speed, and a slower contact speed is always more consistent. In todays game some players use more wrist than others, regardless of their nationality, and this is the same when talking about looping styles. The 'chinese loop' is a long arm stroke taken early, there have been plenty of players in history who have used this technique when the Chinese were still flat hitting, Hungarians used it successfully because the early contact counter loop was in its infancy and the widely accepted was to return a loop successfully was to block it, so relative to todays game, a passive stroke was used, allowing the Hungarians time to recover their enormous swings. The Chinese game was based upon quick hitting, and their only consistent response to a 'big spin' was to block it.
Move forward 10 yrs and we had JP Gatien, who's game was based around taking his loopdrives early, so the emphasis was upon quick stroke recovery, facillitated by the employment of a compact stroke and superb footwork. Most European coaches took up the Gatien model as being the way forward, and the players in their prime today are the product of that period.
Chinese style F/hand topspinning is largely a product bourne out of the availability in China of equipment at affordable prices to young aspiring Chinese players, they cannot afford Euro/Jap rubbers, so start playing wioth Chinese rubbers, and after their initial formative stroke production, the mould is set. The longer arm derives from the objective of attaining more power with slower equipment, a less conservative stroke is not possible, the Chinese have Conquered this because of the size and exellence of their structure, so a technically more difficult stroke to be successful with, has been realised. I also believe that the addition of the 40mm ball has helped the Chinese in this matter. I have to go coaching...
More later, but to sum up for now, the reason that say WLC has a superb f/hand is for many reasons, such as the fact that he is always in position to play it, the least important of those reasons is whether he uses his wrist or not on contact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 8:22am
To all: it's just what I've read and trained with, so take it with a grain of salt. Isn't it good that we have diverse schools of technique, otherwise TT wouldn't be so interesting. I'm a shakehander by the way. Sorry for such a long post, but this is getting really interesting and i'm on hols now... :D

For training:
I still train a lot with basic strokes(without minimal wrist action) as much as possible, but the really important thing to realise is that the wrist is held steady, but yet not stiff. That is because if you intentionally stiffen your wrist your arm would not be relaxed and you risk losing your muscle coordination and even injury. You do need to know how the wrist functions in a big loop, then make it compact to fit counterhits. and that's why people train basic strokes(counterhits) AND medium power loops at the same time. Both of them connect very tightly together. After much training, the wrist action should be natural and integrated into the stroke and not forced as ppl think. Also the wrist action shouldn't produce sidespin, it should produce pure topspin because the wrist goes from outwards to neutral, not neutral to inwards. That's unless you contact the ball on the side.

As to why an almost straight arm is desired, it's because there is extra acceleration obtained with the dramatic reduction in radius of movement(physicists help me) as the straight arm becomes compressed.

To APW: Do you really believe WLQ doesn't use his wrist? He's actually the master of it! His wrist action somehow "lags" behind his arm action, so most ppl don't notice it. Try getting a really high quality video of him close up and slow-mo it. You'll definitely notice the wrist going from "outwards" to neutral or even inwards.

About equipment: The "chinese" stroke can be used equally well with Euro equipment since it utilizes the sponge. However, tacky and slow rubbers increases the dwell time allowing much more control, and better spin as well.

About Waldner, I think he actually mastered both types of loops with the infamous sidespin loop the Euro type and the down to line loop a "Chinese" style loop(look at how his wrist goes from pointing backwards to pointing upwards!) But he wins because of his ridiculous short game control and brains. He still has the most "sudden" serve receive in the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 9:06am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:



To APW: Do you really believe WLQ doesn't use his wrist?

 I think you should read what I said again, I think WLC has superb use of his wrist, but IMO it is not that aspect that makes his F/hand the superb stroke that it is. Unless you happen to be one of the best players in the world, Looping with a straight arm has a major drawback, you have little time to recover for the next stroke. I'm off to practice spinning balls up curtains. Figgie and Peter C speak with obvious experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 3:10pm

+1 to Blahness... mirror's what my coaches say pretty much.  According to the National Team coaches, what sets WLQ's forehand apart from the others of the Nat team is his finger usage which they deemed him a "PH-D" on.  Was documented in the Chinese National Team powerpoint that was posted a while back.

They rated WLQ using a "education" level scale...
 
Fingers - PH-D
Wrist - Undergrad
Forearm - Secondary School
Arm - Elementary School
 
But ya really interesting discussion though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by figgie figgie wrote:

as I mentioned before.

 
the "chinese" forehnd is in fact the OLD hungarian style. Not a chinese stroke ;)
 
Made popular by the likes of Joyner, Klampar, Gergley etc.


Something just came to my mind...  And this could be interesting.

The "straight arm" loops have been used by the Hungarians as mentioned above, and also by the late Andre Grubba of Poland and numerous Chinese players while the "compact loop" have been used by Timo Boll, Gatien, Persson...

The formers were (and are) from communist countries while the laters are from capitalist countries.  Should it be more appropriate that we say "communist loop" against "capitalist loop" hehehe j/k

I hope nobody would take this seriously because I find it's kinda funny and interesting.  Hope that this is not going to be a political debate, please!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

+1 to Blahness... mirror's what my coaches say pretty much.  According to the National Team coaches, what sets WLQ's forehand apart from the others of the Nat team is his finger usage which they deemed him a "PH-D" on.  Was documented in the Chinese National Team powerpoint that was posted a while back.



I'm interested in this.  Would you please elaborate more about how he uses his finger?  You mean the index finger?  Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 3:17pm

The presentation didn't really elaborate on it (I really wish they did because it seems like golden information).  But theres a picture in there and they highlighted his fingers and his wrist where hes very advanced according to the coaches.  Theres also another chart in there where they rate the speed, power, spin, trajectory, placement of 4 players... Timo, WLQ, Ma Lin, Wang Hao.

Their ratings were (in the same order I listed the categories)...
 
Timo - Speed - Excellent, Power - Fair, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Good
 
WLQ - Speed - Excellent, Power - Excellent, Spin - Good, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Fair
 
Ma Lin - Speed - Good, Power - Fair, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Excellent, Placement - Excellent
 
Wang Hao - Speed - Excellent, Power - Excellent, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fstyler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by cntcasey cntcasey wrote:

Why would a person use a Chinese forehand?WHy would a person use a Euro Forehand?Is equipment the only reason why a person would have a Chinese forehand as to a Euro forehand?

Chinese or euro forehand? I saw Maze`s forehand and Ma`s forehand on this video. Forehand topspin is unique for each person, but only some base elements are common:
-forward and upward movement
-usage of all body from legs to wrist
-short swing near the table and wide swing far from the table
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

The presentation didn't really elaborate on it (I really wish they did because it seems like golden information).  But theres a picture in there and they highlighted his fingers and his wrist where hes very advanced according to the coaches.  Theres also another chart in there where they rate the speed, power, spin, trajectory, placement of 4 players... Timo, WLQ, Ma Lin, Wang Hao.

Their ratings were (in the same order I listed the categories)...
 
Timo - Speed - Excellent, Power - Fair, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Good
 
WLQ - Speed - Excellent, Power - Excellent, Spin - Good, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Fair
 
Ma Lin - Speed - Good, Power - Fair, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Excellent, Placement - Excellent
 
Wang Hao - Speed - Excellent, Power - Excellent, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Good


I wish I could get a hand on that document and put it in a safe Smile

Looks to me that they favor Wang Hao, probably it published at the time when Wang Hao was the best.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

+1 to Blahness... mirror's what my coaches say pretty much.  According to the National Team coaches, what sets WLQ's forehand apart from the others of the Nat team is his finger usage which they deemed him a "PH-D" on.  Was documented in the Chinese National Team powerpoint that was posted a while back.

They rated WLQ using a "education" level scale...
 
Fingers - PH-D
Wrist - Undergrad
Forearm - Secondary School
Arm - Elementary School
 
But ya really interesting discussion though.
Rack, I think you misunderstood this slide in Li Xiao Dong's presentation. It wasn't about Wang Liqin, it was about adjustment when brushing the ball to produce topspin. Li Xiao Dong was showing that learning how to adjust first starts at the arm. Once you have mastered adjustment with the arm then you learn how to adjust with the forearm, then with the wrist and finally with the fingers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:

Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

The presentation didn't really elaborate on it (I really wish they did because it seems like golden information).  But theres a picture in there and they highlighted his fingers and his wrist where hes very advanced according to the coaches.  Theres also another chart in there where they rate the speed, power, spin, trajectory, placement of 4 players... Timo, WLQ, Ma Lin, Wang Hao.

Their ratings were (in the same order I listed the categories)...
 
Timo - Speed - Excellent, Power - Fair, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Good
 
WLQ - Speed - Excellent, Power - Excellent, Spin - Good, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Fair
 
Ma Lin - Speed - Good, Power - Fair, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Excellent, Placement - Excellent
 
Wang Hao - Speed - Excellent, Power - Excellent, Spin - Excellent, Trajectory - Good, Placement - Good


I wish I could get a hand on that document and put it in a safe Smile

Looks to me that they favor Wang Hao, probably it published at the time when Wang Hao was the best.

FireHorse
I posted it up for everyone awhile back
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:


I posted it up for everyone awhile back
 
 
 


I got it, thanks.  And Rack is right, it doesn't say much.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

+1 to Blahness... mirror's what my coaches say pretty much.  According to the National Team coaches, what sets WLQ's forehand apart from the others of the Nat team is his finger usage which they deemed him a "PH-D" on.  Was documented in the Chinese National Team powerpoint that was posted a while back.

They rated WLQ using a "education" level scale...
 
Fingers - PH-D
Wrist - Undergrad
Forearm - Secondary School
Arm - Elementary School
 
But ya really interesting discussion though.
Rack, I think you misunderstood this slide in Li Xiao Dong's presentation. It wasn't about Wang Liqin, it was about adjustment when brushing the ball to produce topspin. Li Xiao Dong was showing that learning how to adjust first starts at the arm. Once you have mastered adjustment with the arm then you learn how to adjust with the forearm, then with the wrist and finally with the fingers.


I can see how a person to use the arm, then the forearm, and then the wrist but I have never thought of using the finger.  I guess it's a PhD level that I will never got to but it's something to shoot for :)

Again, thanks for the document.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:

Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:


I posted it up for everyone awhile back
 
 
 


I got it, thanks.  And Rack is right, it doesn't say much.

FireHorse
It says alot of things, but indirectly. In conjunction with the other posts in the thread it says even more. You just have to think about the slides because the transcript of his lecture isn't there. For example: when he talks about "tight connecting" on page 30 and gives a breakdown of connecting, these are good pointers for the types of drills you should be working on to improve your ability connect shots together.
 
It really gets more interesting from page 60 onwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:

Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:


I posted it up for everyone awhile back
 
 
 


I got it, thanks.  And Rack is right, it doesn't say much.

FireHorse
It says alot of things, but indirectly. In conjunction with the other posts in the thread it says even more. You just have to think about the slides because the transcript of his lecture isn't there. For example: when he talks about "tight connecting" on page 30 and gives a breakdown of connecting, these are good pointers for the types of drills you should be working on to improve your ability connect shots together.
 
It really gets more interesting from page 60 onwards.


I see...  I'll read the posts on that thread more to understand the slides.  I guess to reach a PhD level, it takes a lot more work, there's no easy way, otherwise, everybody reaches that level :)

Anyway, thanks so much for all of the pointers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2010 at 6:25pm
I honestly think that the perspective that players/members of this forum look at this, is directly associated to their level of play, I'm saying no more on this, other than that there are many levels of standards between WLC etc, and the players/members of this forum post their views accordingly, my personal view, as a coach that specialises in improving the standard of players who are not potential internationals, are not ever going to reach the heights of International play, do not practice full time, are not sponsored, Are not a part of an international program for producing top players, do not have the time, money or inclination to play at the top level, Are well above the age at which any of the above is realistically possible, but just wish to be a little better in their play, Leave this stuff alone, be honest about your realistic expectations, don't try to copy WLC's F/hand drive, develop your own, personal to you, copy the best player in your club, its a realistic goal that you can achieve, trying to emulate the best players in the world is just not a realistic propasition, there are for the most of us, players who are the stars of our regions/ countries who are full time proffesional players, yet they cannot get anywhere near the level of the best players in the world, do you not think that they might have possibly been advised by their national full time experienced coaches on the benefits, realisations and probabilities of success that they can apparently easily achieve by copying WLC and the rest of the current Chinese national team? So why does anyone on this forum think that the advice given by blahness is going to make any difference to their game? we in England send our best players to China for long periods, they do not ever come back having a WLC forhand, why does anyone think that they can employ these methods better than them? that is why I was quite precise in my response with the word 'Bullsh*t' and I whole heartedly stick by it.
 When it comes to coaching, In am seriously a massive critic, there is an obvious culture within the USA of Chinese coaches being resident in clubs of a given locality. For the most part, the techniques and stratergies of these coaches is well above what the players they coach are capable of, they are there for money and money alone, and are not capable of coaching anything other than international play, which flies well above the capabilities of most of their students. So what i'm saying guys is that if you wish to get that edge, that extra bump up the ratings next year, you would be far better off following Brian Pace than a top Chinese coach. If however you are ranked 120 in the world, go for the Chinese guy every timeWink
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