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Controversial finish to Austrian Bundesliga Season

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2019 at 5:51am
From the screen shots above, that serve looks pretty darn illegal. If you have to cheat to win, you didn't actually win. Also, could you even continue after that guy jumped up and down on the table? I don't think that would be too good for the table top or the legs of the table. It looked like the table legs may have even been warped after he did that. That table was flexing pretty hard when he was jumping up and down on it. That's just ridiculous in my opinion. No one should ever do that. 

Edited by ericd937 - 06/08/2019 at 5:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2019 at 9:21am
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:

 'The protest was dismissed and the result stands. Stockerau can still file an appeal against this decision.' - amatuer.

Would you know to which authority he appealed to and what he appealed against, what were the grounds of his appeal. Thanks     


Google translation:
"The Bundesliga committee of the Austrian table tennis Bundesliga treated on Tuesday evening the objection of the SG Stockerau after the lost final of Sunday, 26. May. The protest was not granted, whereby the SPG Linz was confirmed as the champion in 2019. Stockerau has, after transmission of the judgment, beginning of next week, still the possibility in the last instance, the court of appeal of the ÖTTV, to go."


Edited by amateur - 06/11/2019 at 10:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2019 at 9:22am
duplicate post deleted


Edited by amateur - 06/11/2019 at 10:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2019 at 10:57am
So it seems the protest was dismissed simply because it was filed too late.

And the main grounds for protest would be the fact that the referee (outside of the box) intervened several times and overruled the umpire as to the legality of the serve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2019 at 1:47am
' So it seems the protest was dismissed simply because it was filed too late.

  And the main grounds for protest would be the fact that the referee (outside of the box) intervened          several times and overruled the umpire as to the legality of the serve. ' - amateur

 Unfortunate that it was filed too late. 
 But I thought the protest or appeal would have failed if it was considered if it was based on the   'grounds that the referee had intervened several times and overruled the umpire ....... '.

 Handbook for Match Officials - 15th edition 2014

 17.4.3 - Responsibility of the Referee - " ........ By watching the match the referee may find that the   umpire is no longer in control of play and in this situation he or she should take action on his or her   own initiative, either by telling the umpire what he or she must do or by dealing directly with the   offending player. "

 unless there has been a change, .......
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2019 at 9:31am
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:

' So it seems the protest was dismissed simply because it was filed too late.

  And the main grounds for protest would be the fact that the referee (outside of the box) intervened          several times and overruled the umpire as to the legality of the serve. ' - amateur

 Unfortunate that it was filed too late. 
 But I thought the protest or appeal would have failed if it was considered if it was based on the   'grounds that the referee had intervened several times and overruled the umpire ....... '.

 Handbook for Match Officials - 15th edition 2014

 17.4.3 - Responsibility of the Referee - " ........ By watching the match the referee may find that the   umpire is no longer in control of play and in this situation he or she should take action on his or her   own initiative, either by telling the umpire what he or she must do or by dealing directly with the   offending player. "

 unless there has been a change, .......
 


Does that include the determination whether a serve is legal or illegal - or just disciplinary issues? In the Austrian case it seems that the referee intervened quite early, before the situation was out of control. The video doesn't show the whole match though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2019 at 9:11pm
 'Does that include the determination whether a serve is legal or illegal - or just disciplinary issues? In the Austrian case it seems that the referee intervened quite early, before the situation was out of control. The video doesn't show the whole match though.' - amateur

From the reading of the wordings in 17.4.3, I would think so but can anyone who knows provide a definite answer. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2019 at 10:29am
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:

 'The protest was dismissed and the result stands. Stockerau can still file an appeal against this decision.' - amatuer.

Would you know to which authority he appealed to and what he appealed against, what were the grounds of his appeal. Thanks     


Last week the ÖTTV appeals court ruled that the referee was not allowed to overrule the umpire's decision about the legality of the final serve of the match, and that the protest was justified. As a result, Stockerau was declared Austrian champion:


Edited by amateur - 08/23/2019 at 10:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2019 at 2:48pm
In local tournaments we had an issue in the past, a player simply abandoned the match after complaining about his opponent´s serve twice.
Now, before the match players usually agree with no service rule, because most of them still serve hidden serves.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2019 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

In local tournaments we had an issue in the past, a player simply abandoned the match after complaining about his opponent´s serve twice.
Now, before the match players usually agree with no service rule, because most of them still serve hidden serves.



Why don't they just agree not to use hidden serves? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2019 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

In local tournaments we had an issue in the past, a player simply abandoned the match after complaining about his opponent´s serve twice.
Now, before the match players usually agree with no service rule, because most of them still serve hidden serves.



Why don't they just agree not to use hidden serves? Confused
Some of them simply can´t serve clean, it´s like a vicious motion they carry from late 90´s.
And since we all know each other, we decided now to allow everything about services. The issue happened when we made an open and with a unknown player from a distant club.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2019 at 9:20pm
May we know what is this OTTV appeal court ?

 Whichever, will the ITTF concur with this ruling or will the ITTF have to submit to this ruling and if so,   will it now further define the functions of tournament referees ?
 
 Assuming this was an ITTF sanctioned event.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote passifid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2019 at 4:11am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

In local tournaments we had an issue in the past, a player simply abandoned the match after complaining about his opponent´s serve twice.
Now, before the match players usually agree with no service rule, because most of them still serve hidden serves.



Why don't they just agree not to use hidden serves? Confused
Some of them simply can´t serve clean, it´s like a vicious motion they carry from late 90´s.
And since we all know each other, we decided now to allow everything about services. The issue happened when we made an open and with a unknown player from a distant club.
All fine an well between friends but your club has the audacity to permit an open where a player from a different club who travelled to play left after you all suggested actually we know the rules and just don't care!
Come on now cannot serve clean? The rule has been in place longer than I have played table tennis, they have had a lot of time to adapt and just are bad at service. Now they have no insentive to improve as everyone accepts that the rules are non important at an OPEN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2019 at 10:50am
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:

May we know what is this OTTV appeal court ?

 Whichever, will the ITTF concur with this ruling or will the ITTF have to submit to this ruling and if so,   will it now further define the functions of tournament referees ?
 
 Assuming this was an ITTF sanctioned event.


No, this was the Austrian national league, and OTTV is of course the Austrian table tennis association. They decide how the league operates - basically using ITTF rules, surely, but it's not under the authority of ITTF.
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