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Cork in table tennis blades

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fmonte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cork in table tennis blades
    Posted: 09/23/2023 at 4:11pm
Do someone know if cork counts as wood in a blade or as synthetic material?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2023 at 12:58am
Cork, if derived the Cork Oak tree is certainly not a synthetic material.. It's natural plant (dead) tissue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2023 at 3:24am
There is a german blade-manufacturer, who uses cork in most of his blade to reduce the catapult of balsa and to create combination blades with different speed on backend and forehand.


I have several of those blades. If anyone is interested, I can sell some of them.
Here you can see (as example) some pictures of a "Turbo 62"

  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2023 at 4:51am
729/Friendship Bomb is another blade with a Cork core..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2023 at 4:10pm
2.04. 02 At least 85% of the blade by thickness shall be of natural wood; an adhesive layer within the blade may be reinforced with fibrous material such as carbon fibre, glass fibre or compressed paper, but shall not be thicker than 7.5% of the total thickness or 0.35mm, whichever is the smaller.

Cork is not wood. This is the typical grey area. Nobody ever challenged the ITTF to rule on the matter but if they did so seriously, they would have to make illegal all blades that have a cork ply thicker than 0.35mm and that is assuming they accept cork as a "fibrous" material.

If they amend the rules to specifically address the cork issue, I imagine ITTF would let cork exist as a material as legal as wood for all thicknesses. 

It does not hurt the oak tree when we get its cork every 9 years. Cork is so renewable a material and its use shoud be encouraged. It would be a step backwards to ban it from being used in table tennis wood plies but we need to clarify things.

How many blade designers decided not to use cork because they did not want to take the risk to see their blade made illegal Kreanga Carbon style? There is so much we can do if we add cork as a legal material for plies thicker tham 0.35mm, a whole new area of creativity would open and designers would have a blast.

CORK IS NOT WOOD! ITTF needs to express themselves clearly on this and decide once for all that it is legal to use cork plies thicker than 0.35mm. Right now, it is not.

What do you poeple think about amending the rule adding "or cork" after "natural wood" in the rule quoted above?

2.04. 02 At least 85% of the blade by thickness shall be of natural wood or cork; an adhesive layer within the blade may be reinforced with fibrous material such as carbon fibre, glass fibre or compressed paper, but shall not be thicker than 7.5% of the total thickness or 0.35mm, whichever is the smaller.




Edited by stiltt - 09/24/2023 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2023 at 4:34pm
this is semi unrelated,  but the price of cork sets for jpens have quadrupled in the last 10 years. I suppose jpens are pretty expensive to make.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2023 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by Veet Veet wrote:

729/Friendship Bomb is another blade with a Cork core..

That formulation became a donic blade, like opticon. No, that was the similar 6030.


Edited by cole_ely - 09/24/2023 at 4:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2023 at 6:50pm
...I would put bamboo at the same level than cork btw. bamboo is NOT wood either and yet some blade makers navigate that grey area using it for plies thicker than 0.35mm and get away. They should get away because it is a good thing to have more materials at disposition. We should just be clear about it. OK 85% of natural wood, cork or bamboo! Tongue

Edited by stiltt - 09/24/2023 at 6:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kagin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2023 at 3:15am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

CORK IS NOT WOOD! ITTF needs to express themselves clearly on this and decide once for all that it is legal to use cork plies thicker than 0.35mm. Right now, it is not.

Not only is cork not wood, it's also not a fibrous material (it is cellular). Therefore it is not a legal part of the blade in any thickness. It is only legal as an additional part, such as part of the handle. Having a technical leaflet for blades would be helpful.

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

I would put bamboo at the same level than cork btw. bamboo is NOT wood either and yet some blade makers navigate that grey area using it for plies thicker than 0.35mm and get away.

Bamboo is regarded as wood, and legal in any thickness.

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

They should get away because it is a good thing to have more materials at disposition.
Personally, i disagree with this sentiment. Having more potential blade materials is not necessarily a good thing. I'm relieved that the proposals to permit more blade materials have never been approved by the ITTF AGM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CoachMcAfee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2023 at 11:26am
The ITTF has allowed the use of cork for a very long time.  Blades with cork routinely are used in ITTF Events and have been used at Olympic Games.  USATT Nationals and US Open have always allowed these blades.  In addition, the International Companies who make and sell blades with cork are in regular contact with the ITTF to make sure their blades are not violating any regulations.  No company wants to have the reputation of selling equipment that is illegal. 

If someone has an issue, I suggest they contact the ITTF Equipment Chairperson. 

Coach McAfee, user of a blade with cork.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2023 at 9:02pm
THE SPORT IS BREEDING CHEATERS IN PLENTY. SORRY.

For the continued lack of due inspectorial works, the play courts got now overwhelmed with a large herd of cheaters. The illegal treatments on rubber are seemingly taken by ITTF EQC as an "inevitable evil". But,if the oily boosters did enter in daily routine in so large abundance, why not kiri grass, aluminum granules or some wooden derivatives.?
We certainly need Mr.Adham Sharara back.

Edited by igorponger - 09/25/2023 at 10:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CoachMcAfee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2023 at 12:13am
Again, cork comes from trees, it is a layer within the tree and for many years has been considered wood throughout the industry.  Not sure what the fuss is about.  It certainorly has no magical properties that make a blade better than any other.  

Igorponger, I am quite sure that when players buy a blade from a recognized Table Tennis Brand, they are not thinking of cheating anyone in the sport.  Not sure where you are located but I coach and train coaches in many countries over the last 20 years and I have never seem the sport "overhelmed with a large herd of cheeters".  Perhaps, I just enjoy the sport so much, that it doesn't impact me.  I hope you find the joy in the sport.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XiEnting1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2023 at 1:26am
I have always thought that cork handles are not good because they absorb moisture easily and are very soft and fragile. And basically doesnt have weight  So are there any advantages in using cork other than making  50gr blades in total.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2023 at 8:21am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

THE SPORT IS BREEDING CHEATERS IN PLENTY. SORRY.

For the continued lack of due inspectorial works, the play courts got now overwhelmed with a large herd of cheaters. The illegal treatments on rubber are seemingly taken by ITTF EQC as an "inevitable evil". But,if the oily boosters did enter in daily routine in so large abundance, why not kiri grass, aluminum granules or some wooden derivatives.?
We certainly need Mr.Adham Sharara back.

Your obsession with the rules is blinding you to the purpose and spirit of the rules.
Your use of the word cheating is also offensive to the many players that try to do the right thing, but their equipment may (unknowingly) not be 100% legal.

Cheating, by definition, is knowingly breaking the rules to gain an advantage. Therefore, it follows that if someone unknowingly is in violation of the rules, but does not do this to gain an advantage, they are not really cheating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2023 at 8:23am
Originally posted by XiEnting1972 XiEnting1972 wrote:

I have always thought that cork handles are not good because they absorb moisture easily and are very soft and fragile. And basically doesnt have weight  So are there any advantages in using cork other than making  50gr blades in total.

Cork has some useful properties. It can be quite effective at absorbing pace. It's also quite useful for isolating forehand from backhand properties, which can be important in combination blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hedrick 34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2023 at 8:58am
Originally posted by CoachMcAfee CoachMcAfee wrote:

The ITTF has allowed the use of cork for a very long time.  Blades with cork routinely are used in ITTF Events and have been used at Olympic Games.  USATT Nationals and US Open have always allowed these blades.  In addition, the International Companies who make and sell blades with cork are in regular contact with the ITTF to make sure their blades are not violating any regulations.  No company wants to have the reputation of selling equipment that is illegal. 

If someone has an issue, I suggest they contact the ITTF Equipment Chairperson. 

Coach McAfee, user of a blade with cork.


If I may ask, can you tell me which cork blades you use now or have used ?
I was always interested in low weight 
Please also tell me if you can which dealer I buy from 
Much appreciated 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hedrick 34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2023 at 9:05am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by XiEnting1972 XiEnting1972 wrote:

I have always thought that cork handles are not good because they absorb moisture easily and are very soft and fragile. And basically doesnt have weight  So are there any advantages in using cork other than making  50gr blades in total.

Cork has some useful properties. It can be quite effective at absorbing pace. It's also quite useful for isolating forehand from backhand properties, which can be important in combination blades.

What does it mean when you say isolating forehand & backhand ?  I thought forehand and backhand must be same by rules if I am not mistaken . What I mean is that is it not on same blade ? Why would someone want such a blade ? I do not understand
 
Which blades are like this ? I am actually curious to try 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hedrick 34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2023 at 9:26am
Originally posted by XiEnting1972 XiEnting1972 wrote:

I have always thought that cork handles are not good because they absorb moisture easily and are very soft and fragile. And basically doesnt have weight  So are there any advantages in using cork other than making  50gr blades in total.

So are we talking about just the handle only or the head itself or a combination of both as one unit for the purposes of this specific discussion  ? 
Now I am confused about the definition of a blade itself because isn't the blade head layer composition usually different from the blade hendle layer composition in many blades ? 



Edited by Hedrick 34 - 09/26/2023 at 9:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kagin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2023 at 2:09am
Originally posted by CoachMcAfee CoachMcAfee wrote:

Again, cork comes from trees, it is a layer within the tree and for many years has been considered wood throughout the industry.  Not sure what the fuss is about.  It certainorly has no magical properties that make a blade better than any other.
Apples come from trees, but that doesn't make them wood. Leaves, flowers, seeds, bark, etc. are not wood either. Wood is defined by the part of the plant/type of tissue, not the species.

This is not a judgment on the performance of cork in a table tennis blade.

The ITTF does not approve or analyze blades. The JTTA does, but i don't know where their list of approved blades is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CoachMcAfee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2023 at 3:34am
I certainly agree that the ITTF should approve blades.  No player should ever have to worry that a blade or rubber they purchase from recognized table tennis companies is legal or not.  Not any way for us to know other than ITTF Approval.   Of course if the ITTF were to start approving blades, most of the smaller blade makers would go out of business because of the added expenses.  

I would not be surprised that in the near future, we see the ITTF allow for blades to be made out of materials other than wood.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2023 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by CoachMcAfee CoachMcAfee wrote:

The ITTF has allowed the use of cork for a very long time.  Blades with cork routinely are used in ITTF Events and have been used at Olympic Games.  USATT Nationals and US Open have always allowed these blades.  In addition, the International Companies who make and sell blades with cork are in regular contact with the ITTF to make sure their blades are not violating any regulations.  No company wants to have the reputation of selling equipment that is illegal. 

If someone has an issue, I suggest they contact the ITTF Equipment Chairperson. 

Coach McAfee, user of a blade with cork.


Be careful contacting that guy...you'll probably start receiving invoices
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CoachMcAfee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2023 at 11:48pm
LOL, That's funny!  LOL
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