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Custom butterfly blade mid 80's ?

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Jolan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/28/2022 at 7:54am
Dear friends,
I come to you and your expertise to identify this blade which has been found lately in Paris on an open market. The seller, claims he was a butterfly sponsored player in the eighties. A conical donic handle was glued later for comfort purposes. As you can see in pics, it's an allwood blade 7 plis. 4 outer plis on FH and only 2 on BH. Never seen such construction, have you ? It is as fast as a Mazunov and weight is 104g. I am not sure about outer and inner plus nature. Can you name them ?
Thanks for your inputs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jolan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 7:58am
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Edited by Jolan - 09/28/2022 at 8:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 8:42am
That used to be a 5 ply, probably Limba / Ayous / Kiri, then two outer plies were added on just one side. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jolan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 9:52am
makes sense, thanks. What about 2nd dark ply on the 4 plis side ? Rosewood, mahogany, walnut ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 11:21am
Originally posted by Jolan Jolan wrote:

makes sense, thanks. What about 2nd dark ply on the 4 plis side ? Rosewood, mahogany, walnut ?

The outer plies are definitely Limba, both the original and the one that was added later. The rest of the composition was just a guess, the core might be Ayous, Kiri would've made that blade very slow to begin with. The medial doesn't seem like Limba but it's a possibility, the darker layer is impossible to judge from that Pic. 
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Originally posted by Jolan Jolan wrote:

What about 2nd dark ply on the 4 plis side ? Rosewood, mahogany, walnut ?

Could it also be carbon ?

Sorry I am very new at this (understanding blades etc) . 

Also were the modification (of adding two plies) made by the player himself or the manufacturer made it for him or her ?  Because I am told by many more xperience player freinds,  that major manufacturers like Butterfly do not make custom rackets or modifications. If they did, then this playr has to be very high level sposnored player then ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skynet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Yolanda Yolanda wrote:

Originally posted by Jolan Jolan wrote:

What about 2nd dark ply on the 4 plis side ? Rosewood, mahogany, walnut ?

... Because I am told by many more xperience player freinds,  that major manufacturers like Butterfly do not make custom rackets or modifications. If they did, then this playr has to be very high level sposnored player then ?



Butterfly did make custom blades for everyone, well for everyone who had the money, because these custom blades were of course even more expensive than regular Butterfly blades. However Butterfly stopped it several years ago. Now only high profile players /sponsored players are able to get a custom blade from them.

On a side note: That dark play is way too thick to be a composite layer. Pretty sure it is a hardwood like mahogany or something similar.


Edited by Skynet - 09/28/2022 at 3:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:

That used to be a 5 ply, probably Limba / Ayous / Kiri, then two outer plies were added on just one side. 


Are you sure these outer plies are limba? Looks like another material, maybe koto or planchonello (?!?)
Blade looks clearly posted as ALLROUND (looking the scheme picture on the forehand side).
Maybe it was Grubba Pro Model Allround.
To reach this heavy weight I think the manufacturer has used lot of epoxy glue or the blade was pretty much used with old speed glue before to receive the upgrade with 2 more layers. Otherwise, the outer plies are looking same as 1st series Mazunov. Are the elder model Mazunov's outer plies limba?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by Jolan Jolan wrote:

Dear friends,
I come to you and your expertise to identify this blade which has been found lately in Paris on an open market. The seller, claims he was a butterfly sponsored player in the eighties. A conical donic handle was glued later for comfort purposes. As you can see in pics, it's an allwood blade 7 plis. 4 outer plis on FH and only 2 on BH. Never seen such construction, have you ? It is as fast as a Mazunov and weight is 104g. I am not sure about outer and inner plus nature. Can you name them ?
Thanks for your inputs.


Very lucky brocante :)
I think these donic handles are posted by another purposes, not only comfort.
Probably blade is used by defender or combined player, that's the main reason for me, based on my experience with old blades. Only defenders are using these thin conic handles to can switch easy their rubbers during the rallies (twiddling). Looking about the empty spot on the upper handle on the picture near to the playing surface - I can say that was done more by amateur player who didn't know how to glue these handles well instead pro player. Until you don't know the name of the player and ask him personal - you can not be sure what was the reason for all about the swap on this blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 7:14pm
It could very well be a Grubba Pro model, in that case the original ply is not Limba, but I'm pretty sure the other one is. Koto? Not even close, and I don't know what planchonello is.

If the blade weighed around 80g to begin with, it's not that hard to reach 104g. A Rosewood layer with that thickness can easily weigh more than 10g, plus 5 or 6g for the Limba layer and the glue weight. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2022 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:

It could very well be a Grubba Pro model, in that case the original ply is not Limba, but I'm pretty sure the other one is. Koto? Not even close, and I don't know what planchonello is.

If the blade weighed around 80g to begin with, it's not that hard to reach 104g. A Rosewood layer with that thickness can easily weigh more than 10g, plus 5 or 6g for the Limba layer and the glue weight. 


This material Planchonello is used in many elder blades with purpose for better control over the 38mm ball. I am surprised that you, as a blade maker, are not familiar. The pictures posted are not with best quality, but I think for you must be pretty easy to see this is not any limba on the top ply.
Yes, today things changed with the 40+ balls, but even Joo Sae Hyuk has that model wood planchonello for outer plies, also Mazunov I think, surely Firehand Off-, elder Grubba models and many more. It depends from the era of the production. There are different models. For me was easy to connect all the points. Many brands elder blades are equipped with this model wood for their outer plies for better contact with the ball. I have had Hanno, Taico, Nittaku, Tibhar, Donic blades with planchonello outer plies.

Anyway, I think we answered fully the question of our forum friend. Be healthy Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jolan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2022 at 2:30am
I think it is limba and that Hypnotic spotted it well.
If you zoom the ex FH side, you will see it was an all+ blade at first so limba outer and ayous core sound right. 
Planchonello could have been an option if it hasn't been labelled all+, but it's far too fast for an all+.
Thanks for your answers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2022 at 3:23am
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:

It could very well be a Grubba Pro model, in that case the original ply is not Limba, but I'm pretty sure the other one is. Koto? Not even close, and I don't know what planchonello is.

If the blade weighed around 80g to begin with, it's not that hard to reach 104g. A Rosewood layer with that thickness can easily weigh more than 10g, plus 5 or 6g for the Limba layer and the glue weight. 


This material Planchonello is used in many elder blades with purpose for better control over the 38mm ball. I am surprised that you, as a blade maker, are not familiar. The pictures posted are not with best quality, but I think for you must be pretty easy to see this is not any limba on the top ply.
Yes, today things changed with the 40+ balls, but even Joo Sae Hyuk has that model wood planchonello for outer plies, also Mazunov I think, surely Firehand Off-, elder Grubba models and many more. It depends from the era of the production. There are different models. For me was easy to connect all the points. Many brands elder blades are equipped with this model wood for their outer plies for better contact with the ball. I have had Hanno, Taico, Nittaku, Tibhar, Donic blades with planchonello outer plies.

Anyway, I think we answered fully the question of our forum friend. Be healthy Smile

I don't know what Planchonello is because it doesn't exist, you must be reading a lot of Stervinou database which is full of mistakes. Planchonella is a genus of flowering trees and is contains around 100 different species.

Yes, the original is not Limba, but the added layer definitely is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2022 at 7:50am
Originally posted by Jolan Jolan wrote:

I think it is limba and that Hypnotic spotted it well.
If you zoom the ex FH side, you will see it was an all+ blade at first so limba outer and ayous core sound right. 
Planchonello could have been an option if it hasn't been labelled all+, but it's far too fast for an all+.
Thanks for your answers.


Jean you are welcome, I am pretty sure this blade in original was ALLROUND and I wrote it was probably Grubba Allround that I have posted a picture in my last answer. This blade was not ALL+, at least you are professional seller of tt equipment. Should be easy to you to recognise if the blade is ALL or ALL+, due to the very simple Butterfly scheme posted on the face side, no matter the signatures are gone. Better watch it more careful once again. I have made a scheme for you.
 I can not confirm for the added material until I have not seen better quality picture on a day light. For you must be easy to recognize it too, due to your experience in table tennis equipment.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2022 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:


I don't know what Planchonello is because it doesn't exist, you must be reading a lot of Stervinou database which is full of mistakes. Planchonella is a genus of flowering trees and is contains around 100 different species.


Bah, you don't know what is planchonello, but you know what is planchonellA.
Aha, almost got it. Confused
I am not in this forum for senseless nagging, only for your information.

In Bulgaria I have heard many times from elder carpenters about the skills of this material wood in different directions and no one is saying A in the end, not sure the reason no matter I have seen it many times it is with A in the end, due many searches for wooden plies in tt blades. I also don't believe one letter in the end will make you looking more smart than you are for real. Some car brands are even with changed full name in different countries to sound more better for the local people. So, if the wood is planchonella or planchonello I am sure 100% of this forum will understand what I am talking about.

For example the wood Ayous has several ways of pronouncing and writing, especially in the country where it is something as religion. Some people saying Obechi, another Abachi and so on. Same and for Limba i have heard some people saying Limbo or Limbu, no matter, everyone got the topic.

By the way, to be honest I saw somewhere a blade with posted flowers on the handles which is really beautiful and wanted to say: Bravo to you for the nice work, but didn't know you are posting yourself here as Hypnotic in this forum, just now watched the signatures in your profile and made the connection.
Keep your work well done as here and do not look for senseless nagging because it will definitely reflect of the people's mind for your behaviour. It's a friendly advice.

Here is the picture of the blade I have liked a lot as design. Congratulations!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2022 at 9:01am
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:


I don't know what Planchonello is because it doesn't exist, you must be reading a lot of Stervinou database which is full of mistakes. Planchonella is a genus of flowering trees and is contains around 100 different species.


Bah, you don't know what is planchonello, but you know what is planchonellA.
Aha, almost got it. Confused
I am not in this forum for senseless nagging, only for your information.

In Bulgaria I have heard many times from elder carpenters about the skills of this material wood in different directions and no one is saying A in the end, not sure the reason no matter I have seen it many times it is with A in the end, due many searches for wooden plies in tt blades. I also don't believe one letter in the end will make you looking more smart than you are for real. Some car brands are even with changed full name in different countries to sound more better for the local people. So, if the wood is planchonella or planchonello I am sure 100% of this forum will understand what I am talking about.

For example the wood Ayous has several ways of pronouncing and writing, especially in the country where it is something as religion. Some people saying Obechi, another Abachi and so on. Same and for Limba i have heard some people saying Limbo or Limbu, no matter, everyone got the topic.

By the way, to be honest I saw somewhere a blade with posted flowers on the handles which is really beautiful and wanted to say: Bravo to you for the nice work, but didn't know you are posting yourself here as Hypnotic in this forum, just now watched the signatures in your profile and made the connection.
Keep your work well done as here and do not look for senseless nagging because it will definitely reflect of the people's mind for your behaviour. It's a friendly advice.

Here is the picture of the blade I have liked a lot as design. Congratulations!


Well, you totally missed the point. I don't care what you call it, but planchonella is the scientific name of a family of woods, it contains over 100 species, not just one. So if you want talk about a specific wood you must use the sub name, otherwise I have no clue what you are referring to. Or you can use the common name, no one uses the scientific terms for these woods anyway. You don't see anybody calling Ayous by Triplochiton scleroxylon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2022 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:

 
Well, you totally missed the point. I don't care what you call it, but planchonella is the scientific name of a family of woods, it contains over 100 species, not just one. So if you want talk about a specific wood you must use the sub name, otherwise I have no clue what you are referring to. Or you can use the common name, no one uses the scientific terms for these woods anyway. You don't see anybody calling Ayous by Triplochiton scleroxylon. 


OMG LOL
I almost finished the restoration of one old Grubba Pro ALL- with PlanchonellA outer plies.
But still pronouncing it with O in the end. I will need time to get in use with your ultra valuable information.
I think this topic gone out of content, so it's time to be closed, maybe. Hope the topic owner, our nice form friend Jean from France is satisfied enough with the information he received here. The mystery about his rare blade is solved fully.
Be healthy!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2022 at 3:33am
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:

 
Well, you totally missed the point. I don't care what you call it, but planchonella is the scientific name of a family of woods, it contains over 100 species, not just one. So if you want talk about a specific wood you must use the sub name, otherwise I have no clue what you are referring to. Or you can use the common name, no one uses the scientific terms for these woods anyway. You don't see anybody calling Ayous by Triplochiton scleroxylon. 


OMG LOL
I almost finished the restoration of one old Grubba Pro ALL- with PlanchonellA outer plies.
But still pronouncing it with O in the end. I will need time to get in use with your ultra valuable information.
I think this topic gone out of content, so it's time to be closed, maybe. Hope the topic owner, our nice form friend Jean from France is satisfied enough with the information he received here. The mystery about his rare blade is solved fully.
Be healthy!


And you totally missed again, at this point I'm not even sure what you are all about, there are several words for it too, you can choose the one you like the most.

Let me try to make myself clear one more time, so that the information is useful to others at least. Planchonello is a made up word, nobody outside  the TT world calls it that. You may have the wood in your possession and call it whatever you want, but if you go to a lumber yard or whatever and try to buy it, nobody will know what you are talking about. The funny thing is that this wood isn't even Planchonella at all, I just trying to get you to say its real name but you obviously don't know. You say you are interested in knowledge, yet you passed on a good opportunity to learn something just by being stubborn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2022 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:

............. You may have the wood in your possession and call it whatever you want, but if you go to a lumber yard or whatever and try to buy it, nobody will know what you are talking about. The funny thing is that this wood isn't even Planchonella at all, I just trying to get you to say its real name but you obviously don't know. You say you are interested in knowledge, yet you passed on a good opportunity to learn something just by being stubborn.


Bah, you still continue to expose your quality in communication. Just relax.
You can see the 1st 3 results in Google when I write Planchonello. (?!?)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2022 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by Hipnotic Hipnotic wrote:

............. You may have the wood in your possession and call it whatever you want, but if you go to a lumber yard or whatever and try to buy it, nobody will know what you are talking about. The funny thing is that this wood isn't even Planchonella at all, I just trying to get you to say its real name but you obviously don't know. You say you are interested in knowledge, yet you passed on a good opportunity to learn something just by being stubborn.


Bah, you still continue to expose your quality in communication. Just relax.
You can see the 1st 3 results in Google when I write Planchonello. (?!?)



I give up... Ok, you are right. Bye!
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