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Dangers of waist rotation

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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 10:19am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Tbh, zeio was the first one in this forum to explain it, but all of us ignored him including me...Confused Guess if the truth was too hard to take, us human  beings will tend to just close our ears and ignore it. Credit to zeio for bringing up the issue. 

I'll be the second believer, and I'm gonna take a week or two hiatus to focus on shadow practice to unlearn the waist rotation from my techniques. Thanks zeio and sorry for ignoring your posts the first time around!

Zeio's posts are here:


Harimoto has had lower back pain during his 14-day quarantine after returning from China in late November. Been waiting for more in-depth reports but no luck. Not sure if it's related to his FH as I pointed out but posting this for future reference.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/06/0013917433.shtml
https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/24/0013960879.shtml
https://article.auone.jp/detail/1/6/12/17_12_r_20201224_1608762901916662

Edited by zeio - 12/24/2020 at 6:35am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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mykonos96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 10:43am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Tbh, zeio was the first one in this forum to explain it, but all of us ignored him including me...Confused Guess if the truth was too hard to take, us human  beings will tend to just close our ears and ignore it. Credit to zeio for bringing up the issue. 

I'll be the second believer, and I'm gonna take a week or two hiatus to focus on shadow practice to unlearn the waist rotation from my techniques. Thanks zeio and sorry for ignoring your posts the first time around!

Zeio's posts are here:


Harimoto has had lower back pain during his 14-day quarantine after returning from China in late November. Been waiting for more in-depth reports but no luck. Not sure if it's related to his FH as I pointed out but posting this for future reference.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/06/0013917433.shtml

Last time I ve seen him warming up,his body mechanics were so akward not fluent ,no weight transfer.


Edited by stiltt - 12/24/2020 at 5:48am
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 11:00am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Tbh, zeio was the first one in this forum to explain it, but all of us ignored him including me...Confused Guess if the truth was too hard to take, us human  beings will tend to just close our ears and ignore it. Credit to zeio for bringing up the issue. 

I'll be the second believer, and I'm gonna take a week or two hiatus to focus on shadow practice to unlearn the waist rotation from my techniques. Thanks zeio and sorry for ignoring your posts the first time around!

Zeio's posts are here:


Harimoto has had lower back pain during his 14-day quarantine after returning from China in late November. Been waiting for more in-depth reports but no luck. Not sure if it's related to his FH as I pointed out but posting this for future reference.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/06/0013917433.shtml

Last time I ve seen him warming up,his body mechanics were so akward not fluent ,no weight transfer.

There is no pro in the top 100 that doesn't use weight transfer, you simply do not get to that level without those basics


Edited by stiltt - 12/24/2020 at 5:49am
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 11:02am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Tbh, zeio was the first one in this forum to explain it, but all of us ignored him including me...Confused Guess if the truth was too hard to take, us human  beings will tend to just close our ears and ignore it. Credit to zeio for bringing up the issue. 

I'll be the second believer, and I'm gonna take a week or two hiatus to focus on shadow practice to unlearn the waist rotation from my techniques. Thanks zeio and sorry for ignoring your posts the first time around!

Zeio's posts are here:


Harimoto has had lower back pain during his 14-day quarantine after returning from China in late November. Been waiting for more in-depth reports but no luck. Not sure if it's related to his FH as I pointed out but posting this for future reference.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/12/06/0013917433.shtml

I think it had something to do with his new FH movement, he cut down a lot of the movement that was in his previous FH, including the very helpful feet rotation. I was watching his recent matches and more often than not his right foot is no longer perpendicular to the hitting direction during the backswing.


Edited by stiltt - 12/24/2020 at 5:49am
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Butterfly Viscaria

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Tt Gold View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 1:18pm
It’s impossible to say for certain what the cause for his back pain is. There are so many things that he does, which we don’t get to see.
Yes, it could be his new technique.

Could also be his old technique, which in my opinion looks more unhealthy then his current one, that has caught up after all those years. 

Or a lack in physical fitness (lack of stability and muscle development) for what his body needs to endure during his sessions.

Maybe something off table strength exercises that he did incorrectly or were just generally harmful.



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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

It’s impossible to say for certain what the cause for his back pain is. There are so many things that he does, which we don’t get to see.
Yes, it could be his new technique.

Could also be his old technique, which in my opinion looks more unhealthy then his current one, that has caught up after all those years. 

Or a lack in physical fitness (lack of stability and muscle development) for what his body needs to endure during his sessions.

Maybe something off table strength exercises that he did incorrectly or were just generally harmful.


Yeah hard to say for sure, there's 101 reasons why one can have lower back pain. It's just pure speculation...
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stiltt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2020 at 5:56am
A wrong link was being pushed again and again so I went back and edited. If you see "Edited by stiltt" at the end of your post, it was only to replace

per post 


Edited by stiltt - 12/24/2020 at 5:56am
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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2020 at 6:33am
Updated the previous post with the latest news on Harimoto's first win in T.League 2020-2021 while recovering from his lower back pain.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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stiltt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2020 at 7:58am
This is so scary, I hope the news are only the result of over cautious coaches and that what happens to him is just the normal stuff that all athletes can experience, they deal with it and it does not threaten their career and goals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnoTeaches Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/14/2021 at 1:45pm
I really enjoyed reading through this thread and gained a whole lot of insight from the papers, videos and everyone's personal experiences. Thank you so much!

With very little person experience in strength training or PT, I am really struggling even with the explanations and videos to understand where waist rotation stops and thoracic rotation begins. I am working on bracing my core, swinging with my hips (with a little hop) and trying to keep my shoulders close to parallel instead of dipping low to lift up backspin.

I found this video from WRM, even if this group doesn't approve of the coach, the WRM channel's subtitled* content is fantastic. @Blahness and co., would you please analyze the coaches form at 10:44 or other timestamps: https://youtu.be/poiiSAl3Kp8?t=644
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maur1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2021 at 5:11pm
I was watching an ex national coach the other day having a training session and it was very clear he used a lot of waist rotation on his forehand.

I talked to my coach about it and he said it was an old school forehand and had a higher risk of injury.

To me it looked  like his stroke was a lot of hard work compared to a more modern stroke with more hip rotation.

Would it be true to say that using the legs and hips more is more efficient and uses a lot less energy?
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