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DHS 40+ Ball Pix and Review

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    Posted: 06/18/2014 at 2:54pm
Someone on the datangtt forum posted some pictures and measurements of the seamed cellulose diacetate ball by DHS and a comparison with the Nittaku and DHS 40mm celluloid ball. He said he got the new ball on taobao, RMB$48 for 6, roughly US$7.7. For the free-fall test of new and old balls, there is a 1cm difference on the first bounce, and the celluoid ball bounces a total of 4-5 times more than the cellulose diacetate ball. He postulates that playing styles that rely on borrowing pace and spin are doomed. He played with those 6 balls for 3 hours in the night, including 3 matches. He concluded it wasn't as bad as he thought and he has the following thoughts.

1. Not as pleasing to the ears as celluloid ball but it does not sound as gross. Broken sound is still there, but acceptable.
2. Boll ALC turns from a powerful blade into a blade with great control. Solely speaking of the blade strength, fore-/backhand close to table cannot finish opponent off, and worse for away from the table.
3. Longer rally. Easier to put in first attack. Higher accuracy, either short game or open game. To gain point, you either have to commit for a winner or force a breach through placement.
4. Reduction in spin, speed and power, esepecially the last two. Spin is actually decent!
5. Dip on fast loop not as much. The ratio of vertical kick is greater.
6. All-wood blades may as well be used as firewood. Hard 7-ply perhaps. Amateurs whose force and body strength are so-so may be better off with composite blades.
7. A great many of those who lack solid basics and rely on touch, short game and power of the dark side can forget it.















Edited by zeio - 06/18/2014 at 4:04pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/18/2014 at 7:32pm
Thanks zeio!Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/18/2014 at 7:36pm
Longer rallies, slower game, easier for beginners, less unforced errors. I am very hopeful for the future of this sport. 
But what about durability? I read the poly nittaku lasts for years and the poly dhs breaks every minute.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/18/2014 at 10:28pm
So it is bad news for Stiga all wood players like Xu Xin?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 3:43am
So you are saying that the plastic ball bounces less than the celluloid ball? (when dropped vertically I mean)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

So you are saying that the plastic ball bounces less than the celluloid ball? (when dropped vertically I mean)

Sounds weird, right? Assuming the person wasn't mistaken, the cellulose diacetate ball actually has a lower COR.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by TurboZ TurboZ wrote:

So it is bad news for Stiga all wood players like Xu Xin?

Xu Xin will be fine, if the spin of the cellulose diacetate ball is comparable to that of the celluloid ball, as he has always been a spin-oriented player. Remember just after the glue-ban Wang Liqin and Ma Lin contracted the EJ-Virus and tried out a number of composite blades before going back to all-wood blades?
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Longer rallies, slower game, easier for beginners, less unforced errors. I am very hopeful for the future of this sport. 
But what about durability? I read the poly nittaku lasts for years and the poly dhs breaks every minute.

There is no mention of a single ball breaking during his 3 hours of play.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 3:48pm
The first time I hit this new seamed version of the poly ball, I felt a small jolt of pain in my dicky playing wrist.
The spin/speed is less but the most significant thing to me was the difference the extra weight made.
Playing with this ball takes more effort in strokeplay and made me tire quicker.
My initial assessment is that the ball's characteristics will make higher ranked players harder to beat.
Cadets and juniors probably won't fly up the adult rankings as fast as they do now as they won't have the strength at 10-12 to spin/hit the ball as spinny/fast as they do now.
Serves? I did not play long enough, but I suspect that techniques will change to favour placement/pace over spin. The ball is slower, so players may go back to serving very deep and let the rally open up rather than going for the 3rd ball kill. But we'll see.
Is it as fun to play with? I made the mistake of comparing the poly ball with a 40mm and a new old stock 38mm. They all are fun but the 38mm was real joy.

Note, for UK players, Table Tennis England will make public by end of June14 their policy re adoption of the poly ball.


Edited by Tinykin - 06/20/2014 at 12:47pm
>65yo, presently overweight rather than obese.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

So you are saying that the plastic ball bounces less than the celluloid ball? (when dropped vertically I mean)


I forgot about a bounce test. I must try it this weekend.
>65yo, presently overweight rather than obese.

Currently testing; Darker Speed90 with T05H/Dignics05. Update; T05 on BH is impressive when all is right,but D05 wins more points

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 4:41pm
DHS BALLS have just emerged on Taobao,   fairly affordable pricing.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=39077740479

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=8093901345

Boys,
In the case somebody has came in possession of this product, take care to instantly post here your own findings&impression of the DHS product in most scrupulous manner and with less possible delay.
Please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

DHS BALLS have just emerged on Taobao,   fairly affordable pricing.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=39077740479

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=8093901345

Boys,
In the case somebody has came in possession of this product, take care to instantly post here your own findings&impression of the DHS product in most scrupulous manner and with less possible delay.
Please.
I just hope they're genuine, or there's little point in a review. Embarrassed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2014 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Longer rallies, slower game, easier for beginners, less unforced errors. I am very hopeful for the future of this sport. 
But what about durability? I read the poly nittaku lasts for years and the poly dhs breaks every minute.

Maybe it creates  more recreation level players but I wonder what this slower game will do to TT as a high level sport.
 Most people do not view TT as a high level sport rather  see it as a fun recreation activity.  By increasing ball size it slows ball speeds and  spin which is  the physical reality of air resistance and new rubbers nor paddles will change that  physical reality.  It might be a fun game for many players and it might also be easier to learn to play but I can't help but think that long term the ball has to get smaller in order for a higher level of play to occur, maybe  the future recreation level players will use the 40+ and a new standard smaller ball will be created for the higher international level TT players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2014 at 12:13am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

DHS BALLS have just emerged on Taobao,   fairly affordable pricing.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=39077740479

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=8093901345

Boys,
In the case somebody has came in possession of this product, take care to instantly post here your own findings&impression of the DHS product in most scrupulous manner and with less possible delay.
Please.
I just hope they're genuine, or there's little point in a review. Embarrassed



from the advertisment:

"New table tennis as "seam" ball, the material is not flammable, easy storage. Compared with traditional celluloid table tennis, table tennis 40 + diameter from 39.50-40.50MM adjustment "40.00-40.60MM", slightly larger than the traditional table tennis"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2014 at 3:23am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

DHS BALLS have just emerged on Taobao,   fairly affordable pricing.

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=39077740479

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=8093901345

Boys,
In the case somebody has came in possession of this product, take care to instantly post here your own findings&impression of the DHS product in most scrupulous manner and with less possible delay.
Please.


First link is still pre-order and second link is already "off the shelf" after one sale, strange. I remember seeing the release date is mid July. Hope they can get it right. The bigger size is quite obvious even without the old ball side by side.

Just play with a cheap XSF 1 star seamless ball (6 for $2 from ttnpp) the first time few days ago. It is solidly built and easy to play with because it just keep landing on the table shots after shots of hard hit and loop. It dips quicker so I miss the first few hits. But will get used to the curve in no time. I found it bounce a bit higher and longer than old ball with the drop test. The bigger size is obvious even without an old ball side by side.

Edited by TurboZ - 06/20/2014 at 3:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2014 at 11:29pm
There are a few boxes in stock at tt11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2014 at 8:17am
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

There are a few boxes in stock at tt11


Ordered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2014 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

There are a few boxes in stock at tt11


Ordered.

Ordered some too. Can't wait!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSuBaSa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2014 at 7:43pm
Me too, they allow you to order only 3 packs max (which is ok)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2014 at 8:17pm
In the description it says "Available in the middle of July 2014"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2014 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

In the description it says "Available in the middle of July 2014"?


It said that before some came in stock though. I'll update when I get a shipping notification
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2014 at 10:00pm
PATIENCE IS A GREAT VIRTUE.   

Suggested Retail Price as now recommended by the manufacturer for DHS 40+, super selection balls.

-- 5 yuan per one (China inland market)
-- 8 yuan per one (Forein market)

TT11.com Eesti shopster now charges 12¥ for a piece, which looks somewhat an overprice, without any good justification.
According to my investigations, the balls are due on eacheng in mid July. 7¥ a piece.   
Having enough of patience is a great money saver.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2014 at 11:39pm
Igor,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2014 at 12:44pm
Yesterday I got a chance to examine 3 brands of plastic balls.  The Xushaofa was the most interesting because of the lack of seam.  The plastic does not dimple as much as the celluloid balls.  This means the coefficient of restitution should be more consistent over a wider range of impact speeds. The fact the ball will not dimple as easily could mean the ball will not have as much surface contact or friction with the table on impact and change direction or speeds as much as the older celluloid balls.  I haven't been able to test these theories out.  
The surface of the new plastic ball looked to be more porous or rough than the celluloid ball.

I am still trying to figure out how a seamless ball can be made and still have the walls of the ball be of a consistent thickness.  I am familiar with all sort of industrial processes like blow molding and injection molding but plastic balls must use some other trick.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2014 at 3:09am
Finally got a chance to try a Palio 3 Star that had been around for some time. Both XuShaoFa and Palio are seamless but XSF does not have the crack sound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j-bo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2014 at 9:45am
Got to play with the DHS ball.

Less speed and spin and very noticeable at my low level (1300's) of play. The 1800-2000 level guys didn't care for it either as serves were less spiny and loops were less loopy. All commented on the weight when hitting.

Watching others play, I could see the lack of speed and spin as they played. One player, who has a very good side spin loop..was struggling with it. 

Is it playable? Sure.
Will it change the way the game is played? Sure.
Will people be looking for new equipment? Absolutely.
Will this make more people want to play at higher level? Doubtful.
Will this make manuf. more money? Wink

Does this make the game better in some way? Time will tell. Will probably produce longer rallies and for some, that's really a fun part of the game. Will this mean more players? I very much doubt that. The ball was never the reason for lack of participation IMO.

So far, our club will stick with celluloid. How long is anyone's guess.


Edited by j-bo - 06/25/2014 at 9:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2014 at 10:10am
Originally posted by j-bo j-bo wrote:

Got to play with the DHS ball.

Less speed and spin and very noticeable at my low level (1300's) of play. The 1800-2000 level guys didn't care for it either as serves were less spiny and loops were less loopy. All commented on the weight when hitting.

Watching others play, I could see the lack of speed and spin as they played. One player, who has a very good side spin loop..was struggling with it. 

Is it playable? Sure.
Will it change the way the game is played? Sure.
Will people be looking for new equipment? Absolutely.
Will this make more people want to play at higher level? Doubtful.
Will this make manuf. more money? Wink

Does this make the game better in some way? Time will tell. Will probably produce longer rallies and for some, that's really a fun part of the game. Will this mean more players? I very much doubt that. The ball was never the reason for lack of participation IMO.

So far, our club will stick with celluloid. How long is anyone's guess.

Clubs that focus on using the celluloid ball may have a rush of new members in the coming year.  Those that focus on training youth will  have to adopt whatever the national association decides will be the tournament ball but survival may force these clubs into some hard choices as membership could decline as interest in TT as a high level sport declines with  larger ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2014 at 11:11am
Originally posted by j-bo j-bo wrote:

Got to play with the DHS ball.

Less speed and spin and very noticeable at my low level (1300's) of play. The 1800-2000 level guys didn't care for it either as serves were less spiny and loops were less loopy. All commented on the weight when hitting.

Watching others play, I could see the lack of speed and spin as they played. One player, who has a very good side spin loop..was struggling with it. 

This sounds like the return of short pips to me.

Short pips doesn't rely on spin as much. As for speed, there's the law of diminishing return. Inverted will see the speed reduction more so than pips as I feel inverted is considerably faster overall. 


Edited by suds79 - 06/25/2014 at 11:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2014 at 4:42pm
I just got a shipping notice for the balls I ordered from TT11.  Also ordered Joola balls but those will ship in July after I am probably in Nigeria on vacation. 
 
What people sometimes forget is that spin/speed reduction tends to favor more powerful loopers, not more powerful hitters.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2014 at 4:57pm

I have always favored heavier, really like heavier. I have high hopes for the heavier new ball, although I would prefer heavier 39.5 mm balls, instead of those a full mm bigger.

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