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DHS D40+ to Be Released in April

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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.


Same date code as my boxes of thin seam balls. (bought from ttnpp)


OK.  Now we have two kinds of balls, same stamped date (July this year), bought different at places (thin ones from ttnpp, thick ones from a shop in Beijing).  Still, we have not quite resolved things yet because the date they changed the balls could have been in the middle of July?

It could also still be that the tnpp ones are fake or two factories. 

But again, we will eventually know the truth if people keep posting what they get to this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.


OK, this is July 2017.  Thick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:41pm
we now have something worth investigating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:35pm
DHS you suck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.


Same date code as my boxes of thin seam balls. (bought from ttnpp)

Edited by qpskfec - 09/27/2017 at 1:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:32pm
XGAG and thick seamed??? What the...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:20pm
XGAG, thick seamed, yellowish, heavy and very good to play with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:16pm
So summarizing the possibilities.

1.  The thin seamed ones are fakes.
2.  The thin seamed ones are a new product that may be worse than the one they were making earlier.
3.  There are two factories making non-identical D40+ balls.

We will reject #1 if people start getting thin-seamed ones from authorized dealers like TT11, as opposed to ttnpp.  We accept #2 if nobody sees a thick seam on any balls from authorized dealers with manufacturing dates after, say, June of 2017.  If a consensus emerges that the thin seamed ones really are worse we can begin to accept the second part of #2.  Finally if we see both thin and thick seam versions from authorized dealers that have manufacturing dates of June 2017 or later we would probably reject #2 and accept #3.

So I suppose we will know before too long.  Someone will let me know if there are possibilities I haven't included. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

I purchased a few packs from Beijing last week for 16 yuan a pack.
It is solid, feels a bit heavier than yinhe s40 and the surface is a bit smooth. How do I tell if it's new or old?
date code on box

Q/YSRP 48
XGAG

The ones I have are top notch.

Edited by ashishsharmaait - 09/27/2017 at 1:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Alternative hypothesis.

Two factories?

Possible, but pretty lame of DHS to badge them up as the same type of ball when they're obviously made in a different way.
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 11:25am
Alternative hypothesis.

Two factories?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 11:09am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Yeah but why is the manufacturing date later than from the good balls?


They used currently dated boxes to validate the product, or they would have had to accept returns for refunds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 10:58am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

I got the feeling that the „new“ D40+ is actually an old 40+, that’s how they look like. So weird?!
Do you have an old 40+ to compare with?Smile
May be you are right; actually, if the old 40+ has thicker seam,  it would be good to. 


Edited by Egghead - 09/27/2017 at 11:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 10:54am
Yeah but why is the manufacturing date later than from the good balls?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 10:52am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

I got the feeling that the new“ D40+ is actually an old 40+, that’s how they look like. So weird?!


Maybe this was their 1st prototype with the seamed ball, a thinner seam, so they are getting rid of some old manufactured production stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

I purchased a few packs from Beijing last week for 16 yuan a pack.
It is solid, feels a bit heavier than yinhe s40 and the surface is a bit smooth. How do I tell if it's new or old?
date code on box

What does code "XBAG" mean?,  Edit - think it means Feb 2017


Edited by tom - 09/27/2017 at 9:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 9:37am
I got the feeling that the „new“ D40+ is actually an old 40+, that’s how they look like. So weird?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 9:04am
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

I purchased a few packs from Beijing last week for 16 yuan a pack.
It is solid, feels a bit heavier than yinhe s40 and the surface is a bit smooth. How do I tell if it's new or old?
date code on box
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 7:11am
Look at the seam... see pictures above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 6:40am
I purchased a few packs from Beijing last week for 16 yuan a pack.
It is solid, feels a bit heavier than yinhe s40 and the surface is a bit smooth. How do I tell if it's new or old?

Edited by ashishsharmaait - 09/27/2017 at 6:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 6:33am
Grrrrrr.

If these are legit DHS balls, I wonder if they put the modified construction back through the ITTF approvals process?
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 6:30am
Same experience as me. Did you also buy from ttnpp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2017 at 1:03am


Left side is May mfg date ball with the thick seam. Right side is a July ball with the thin seam.

I put the balls on top of a mini flashlight for the pix. With the naked eye the seams are darker and very easy to see on both balls.

I hit balls with my regular practice partner tonight. We have been playing with D40+ since April. We started out with the older balls with the thick seam. Without telling my partner, I switched balls to a newer thin seam ball.

He could tell straight away the ball was different.

Thin seam balls do not have the nice solid feel of thick seam balls. The trajectory wasn't the same. We didn't play for long with the newer balls.

This is a very disappointing development.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2017 at 6:19pm
Found a thread on Tieba, on the same issue, dated late July.

At least two users say there is a new version of D40+, and that it plays better than the old one.

The last comment(#18) says the one he got looks yellowish, whereas the one his friend has looks whitish.

Edited by zeio - 09/26/2017 at 6:20pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2017 at 5:59pm
So I tried the new DHS 40+ and it's horrible. The sound alone. Let's all hope it was a fake one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2017 at 5:45pm
Those are symptoms of the seamless-withdrawal syndrome. You need to go through the seam-ification again.

Edited by zeio - 09/26/2017 at 5:45pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2017 at 3:59pm
I am so tired of having to get used to different balls. If I go to a Butterfly tournament then I have to play with the Butterfly balls for a week or so to get used to them. Same for the Joola Flash and the Nittaku premium. 
Let me just say right here and now that I don't really care for the Nittaku premium balls. I've talked with some friends that also prefer the Joola Flash and the Butterfly balls over the Nittaku ones. The balls weigh the same but I don't seem to be able to spin the Nittaku balls as much. Some have suggested the material is harder than the others. Is that really the case? 
Case in point: I depend on winning many points on my backhand loop, and when I loop heavy underspin balls my loop usually has quite a lot of spin that is difficult for my opponents. I played a very good defensive player with the Joola Flash balls and won 6 games in a row without any trouble. Then we switched to the Nittaku premium ball and I lost 11-9 in the 5th! Many times when I tried to loop his heavy chops to my backhand I looped the ball in the net. So why am I having a much harder time looping the Nittaku balls? Some of the other good players I play against are used to playing with the Nittaku balls and claim the Joola Flash (aka XSF balls) bounce much higher and cause them problems. A couple of weeks ago I played a 2150-2200 looper using the Joola Flash ball and won 3-0. Last week I played him again and used the Nittaku and lost 3-0. It's just so frustrating having to go back and forth between different balls as there is clearly differences with the major brands. I also don't like the fact that the Nittaku balls start to yellow after a couple of weeks. What is it about the plastic they use that causes this? The Flash and Butterfly balls stay very white, but the Nittaku yellow after a while.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2017 at 8:04am
Another thing I found out:

During WTTC I won some Andro 3S 40+ balls, the new ones by Andro. Back then I thought they must be some Double Fish ABS ball since they were whiter and had a thinner seam than the D40+, so it could not be a clone. Now it turns out, they are pretty much identical to the new D40+ I bought, at least that's what they look and feel like.

So I actually think they are not fake but another version. I have to try them out, maybe they are not as bad as I thought, it was just so weird after being used to the sound of the old D40+...

I will keep you posted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2017 at 8:38pm
So much time spent correcting misinformation.

The idea that cellulose acetate plays like celluloid is simply not correct based on everyone's experience from the top pros down to club players.  They are fragile, not round, they do not bounce consistently.  They are also expensive.  Recall that Igorponger is referring to the plastic Chinese 40+ ball that was introduced in 2014 that everyone hates.

Regarding ABS balls, at least the DHS ones that were being made in the early part of this year received very good reviews at all levels.  Most people also very much like Nittaku Premium, except for the price.  The reason they like them is they bounce consistently, they are round, and they bounce the same height as celluloid.  As with all 40+ balls, their spin properties are different from celluloid. 

Also, we must not have been watching the same matches at WTTC 2017.  The rallies were very good.

Regarding the very poor quality of the cellulose acetate DHS balls used at Rio, see the following link, with quotes from many players, including Timo Boll, Panagiotis Gionis, Paul Drinkhall, Li Ping, Dima, and even Thomas Weikert:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/13/sports/olympics/table-tennnis-ball-changes-rio-games.html?mcubz=1












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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2017 at 8:32pm
ABS balls: more improvements to come.
   
Cellulose acetate (CA) is sometimes referred to as "noncombustible celluloid",   and it plays much similar to celluloid as having much the same mechanical properties --hardness, density, dynamic friction etc.
In short terms, CA is the best available alternative for celluloid in making table tennis balls.

ABS plastic, in its present composition, is a far different beast from celluloid. It is fairly lightweight material 1.15 > 1.40, and it is very rigid.. And inelastic.    ABS would producing irregular, bizzare bounce in play.

RIO Olympics 2016 were played with acetate balls, DHS 40+, and it was a spectators pleaser. So many prolonged rallies.
The lately WC 2017 in Germany used ABS plastic ball, and it was some mock of the game ... So many missed balls. abridges rallies.

   Hopefully, chinese CNT will eventually enforce further improvements of ABS product: some softer, ductile material is expected to better emulate the celluloid.
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