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DHS D40+ to Be Released in April

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igorponger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 8:36pm
DHS PLAYS TO CHINA HANDS.

DHS is well aware what the national china players aspire for.   DHS will surely take some more efforts to work out the "vantage" ball to meet the china players' requirements very well..

Tokyo Olympics 2020 is going to be played with DHS balls, it is a great advantage for China over Japan.
   I can assure you all, the Olympic version of DHS Ball will be far a different product from the Nittaku Premium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2017 at 9:54pm
I have to admit, I have wondered about that possibility myself (I posted it earlier as one of my "conspiracy theories".  But I ultimately figure there is not one ball that will fit "the Chinese style" because there is no one style shared by all CNT players.  Also it doesn't look like they do worse with ABS balls than before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 12:52pm
Just ordered last week and my order came in and the date code is XHAG. Can someone kindly tell me the month they were produced. I will compare them with a earlier batch i bought early this year. Thanks
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigFatLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

Just ordered last week and my order came in and the date code is XHAG. Can someone kindly tell me the month they were produced. I will compare them with a earlier batch i bought early this year. Thanks

AG=2017
X = 0
A=1 (April), B=2 (Feb), C=3 (March), ..., H=8 (August)

So, should be August 2017 ... I think ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 1:31pm
Thanks BigFatLoop SmileSmileSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pdotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2017 at 10:06am
Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

Thanks BigFatLoop SmileSmileSmile

are those balls thick or thin seam?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2017 at 4:18pm
The new batch of balls i got does show the seam is a little thinner but not by much and the color of the seam is a little lighter. Over color of the ball is still the same. I will know how they play this weekend when i usually visit my club. 
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2017 at 1:39pm
I just received three boxes of D40+ (1 of XGAG, 2 of XFAG), and the seams look identical to the old D40+, which were received at the beginning of this year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2017 at 8:59pm
I am starting to favor the "one brand but two factories" hypothesis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 4:14am
Just got another 72 from TTNPP (ordered before I got the thin seamed ones).

XHAG, thick seam! :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I am starting to favor the "one brand but two factories" hypothesis.


Is it possible the Nittaku SD 40+ which is made in China and the thin seamed DHS D40+ are made in the same factory with the same mold using different labels ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 1:23pm
One factory and different machineries.

The new plastic includes many excellent ingredients. Nylon and sterene.



Edited by igorponger - 10/09/2017 at 2:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I am starting to favor the "one brand but two factories" hypothesis.


Is it possible the Nittaku SD 40+ which is made in China and the thin seamed DHS D40+ are made in the same factory with the same mold using different labels ?


I need to check some SD40+ to check the seam widths.  It is possible. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 4:14pm
igorponger is correct in that in a factory making lots of balls, DHS will have several production lines for the balls. The thin/thick seam balls could be from the same factory, just batches from different lines or days.

Nittaku in their oem deal with DHS will certainly stipulate quality control metrics that may even extend into set up specs of the production equipment and raw material quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 4:21pm
Definitely another possibility. One factory and two different lines set up a little differently. Would it be intentional?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 5:31pm
Could be intentional. It is 100% certain that DHS will tweak production over time to increase efficiency.

Does the thin seam ball meet all the specs? Weight, diameter, bounce, veer, etc. If so then the balls are certainly genuine DHS. That's why it is important to actually get some real data.

It might be that someone accidentally changed a machine setting and made the seam thinner, and the balls still pass all the QC tests. This means that taking apart balls and measuring the seam is not part of the normal QC process. Maybe this machine continues to produce balls today.

It could also be that DHS does measure the seam and found some thinner and changed the process back to a thicker seam but decided it's ok to sell the thin seam balls.

I am sure there are more permutations considering DHS probably has many individual lines producing balls.

BTW, I did a multiball session with the thin seam balls. They are ok for multiball. I switch back to the thick seam balls for other practice and matches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2017 at 6:21pm
Also, the seam itself may not be causing whatever people are feeling.  The Nittaku balls (NP40) have even thinner seams.  Maybe DHS was trying to see if they could emulate that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 3:26pm
Given the resources of DHS, they would have prototyped many raw material process and ball configurations when developing the D40+.

For comparison, Nittaku was just granted US Patent #9623288 on its ABS ball in Apr 2017. If you scan through it, it is clear they spent a lot of time in R&D.

This chart in the patent shows balls with varying wall thickness versus results for bounce, sound, and strength. There are many charts like this in the patent. DHS would have done many of the same comparisons.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 5:15pm
Got the D40+ from tt11 last week, thick seamed, heavy and very good to play with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 5:44pm
Well, I really tried to like those balls but they sound sooo bad. I can play with them, it’s not thaaat bad but they sound broken. What have they done?
So far the bad ones were all NOT from TT11, correct? Did anyone buy bad ones at a legitimate dealer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CroNone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 7:03pm
Why are DHS D40 3*** almost twice the price at TT11?

At TTnPP they are about 0.58 USD each.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Well, I really tried to like those balls but they sound sooo bad. I can play with them, it’s not thaaat bad but they sound broken. What have they done?
So far the bad ones were all NOT from TT11, correct? Did anyone buy bad ones at a legitimate dealer?
Did you get your D40+ from TT11? 
I, somehow, found the TT11's D40+ balls sound broken, but they played fine.

Originally posted by CroNone CroNone wrote:

Why are DHS D40 3*** almost twice the price at TT11?

At TTnPP they are about 0.58 USD each.
TT11 has 25% off, no qty restriction and fast free shipping.


Edited by Egghead - 10/10/2017 at 7:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Given the resources of DHS, they would have prototyped many raw material process and ball configurations when developing the D40+.

For comparison, Nittaku was just granted US Patent #9623288 on its ABS ball in Apr 2017. If you scan through it, it is clear they spent a lot of time in R&D.

This chart in the patent shows balls with varying wall thickness versus results for bounce, sound, and strength. There are many charts like this in the patent. DHS would have done many of the same comparisons.



I recall too that one of the things they patented before was the process for sealing the two halves together in a way that gives that very thin seam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2017 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I am starting to favor the "one brand but two factories" hypothesis.


Is it possible the Nittaku SD 40+ which is made in China and the thin seamed DHS D40+ are made in the same factory with the same mold using different labels ?


I need to check some SD40+ to check the seam widths.  It is possible. 

SD40+ have thin seams (although I don't have other seamed balls to compare them with). Also the balls are very white, but after use I noticed that if you shine a light through them there are steaks of yellow throughout the ball, although they don't seem visible otherwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fabian1890 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 1:37am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Well, I really tried to like those balls but they sound sooo bad. I can play with them, it’s not thaaat bad but they sound broken. What have they done?
So far the bad ones were all NOT from TT11, correct? Did anyone buy bad ones at a legitimate dealer?

Did you get your D40+ from TT11? 
I, somehow, found the TT11's D40+ balls sound broken, but they played fine.

Originally posted by CroNone CroNone wrote:

Why are DHS D40 3*** almost twice the price at TT11?

At TTnPP they are about 0.58 USD each.
TT11 has 25% off, no qty restriction and fast free shipping.




Nope all ttnpp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 1:55am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Got the D40+ from tt11 last week, thick seamed, <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">heavy and very good to play with.</span>


can someone post a list od the balls that are more easy to spin someballs are like antipips
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 8:25am
Once you're about to tame the beast you must know its every habit and twist...

Those brave Japanese did a comprehensive studies of the vicious Plastic Beast

by Yuki Inaba p.37
© Editorial Committee of Journal of Human Kinetics

Conclusion
    Changes between the trajectory of
    celluloid balls, which had been long used in table
    tennis, and newly introduced plastic balls were
    investigated in this study.

    Plastic balls demonstrated a higher coefficient of restitution
    than celluloid balls when the initial vertical
    velocities were higher. Moreover, the coefficient
    of friction was higher for plastic balls when the
    initial horizontal contact point velocities were
    lower.
    As a result, for slower balls with back-spin,
    as in the case of a service, plastic balls are
    expected to experience more deceleration upon
    collision with the table than celluloid balls. On the
    other hand, for faster balls with greater amounts
    of top-spin, plastic balls are expected to
    experience greater acceleration upon collision
    with the table than celluloid balls.



Edited by igorponger - 10/11/2017 at 9:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 11:04am
Igor, for once you have posted something pretty interesting.  Thanks for this.

This is a really nice very carefully done study with conditions carefully controlled and measured.  They could control spin and speed and see what happened throughout the whole trajectory.  A coupled things I noticed in this paper.  Both the celluloid and plastic balls where Nittaku Premiums, which means the plastic were ABS.  An interesting detail is that the plastic balls were actually LIGHTER than the celluloid, although they were about 0.6 mm greater diameter. 

Translating from physics to table tennis language, they conclude that it should be easier to serve short with plastic balls.  Plastic balls tend to decelerate more when they are in the air, but topspin loop drives are going to "leap" faster off the table more and therefore be faster after collision with the table in the case of plastic.  Of course that means that there will be less spin remaining when the ball gets to the opponent's racket (and they did not analyze how the ball interacts with the rackets, only with the air and the table).  They specifically noted that because of the trajectory and faster deceleration of the plastic ball in the air, and it's higher bounce off the table in response to topspin, defenders will actually have MORE time to bring the ball back when their opponent attacks them, and that drop shots against defenders ought to be more effective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 11:22am
I saw this study last night while looking for another study that compared celluloid balls vs plastic balls. Can't find that study which compared the length of rallies on average using either ball. I remember seeing it but now it seems it has been pulled out of google for some reason.

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2017 at 2:17pm
Played with my new batch, me and my coach found them to be of no difference from the early batches. Maybe it was the DHS factory adjusting something or they had a bad batch of balls. 

Edited by 42andbackpains - 10/11/2017 at 2:33pm
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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