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Did Ma Long has the right feeling for this point?

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ZApenholder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2022 at 9:08am
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:




Anyway, who won the match between Kasumi and Jia from 2012 after that ugly behaviour of the umpire? That was 100% with purpose by the umpire. I watched Kasumi's movement several times.


I can't remember. Its too long ago.
I think Kasumi lost at the end.

It was also at the Japan Open too and guess what, nothing will happen to bad umpire calls, or atleast the average public never hears about it.

You are taught, umpire is always right and if you question an umpire, you will get a yellow/red card.
godlike.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2022 at 11:40am
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:



I think part of this discussion is due to this statement:
In this situation the ball must jump on the level of the table or higher
I'm not TT rules expert (far from that), but I think if the ball hits the top of the table, even if just by little (top-edge), it is valid.


Of course, but it depends the position of the player's body and ball according the side lines. That's what I am trying to explain from the start ot the topic. Did Ma long realize he is out with the ball together of the side lines, or he still thought he is "in". That's the question. At his place I will never ask for a point until I see the ball is jumping at the table's surface level, minimum. That definitely didn't happen. Ball just dropped and he was out of the side lines. Should be interesting to know which rule the umpires have used for this point if such a thing don't exist in the official ittf rules.

From what you said, if I understood correctly, you don't think it is possible to the ball hit the top-egde and fall down from ML position. That is probably the reason that led all this discussion.

I have a different opinion. As my first post, I definetely think it is possible to to the ball fall down from there after hitting the top edge.

My earlier post, that you cut off the last part when quoted me:

"I'm not TT rules expert (far from that), but I think if the ball hits the top of the table, even if just by little (top-edge), it is valid.
Assuming that this is true, the question than is: is it possible for the ball to hit the top-edge and go down?
In this situation where ML hit, it is possible. He hit almost palalell to the table. 
If the position of the ball when he hit were too far to the side, than it would be easier to assume ball down = Timo's point. 
But he is very close to the side of the table. It can hit the top-edge of the table very lightly and still go down."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2022 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

You are taught, umpire is always right and if you question an umpire, you will get a yellow/red card.
godlike.

LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2022 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:

"I'm not TT rules expert (far from that), but I think if the ball hits the top of the table, even if just by little (top-edge), it is valid.
Assuming that this is true, the question than is: is it possible for the ball to hit the top-edge and go down?
In this situation where ML hit, it is possible. He hit almost palalell to the table. 
If the position of the ball when he hit were too far to the side, than it would be easier to assume ball down = Timo's point. 
But he is very close to the side of the table. It can hit the top-edge of the table very lightly and still go down."


Discussion finished several posts ago LOL
Read careful my conclusions. From the position of Ma Long by each known science (not rule, but science, maths, geometry), the ball must go minimum the level of table's surface after the jump or higher. Because it is OUT OF SIDELINE.
It didn't happen, but Ma Long asked the point for him. Please. Topic gone too large, we discussed all about that behaviour of Ma Long. Ask some professional player what he thinks for that and come back, you are welcome. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2022 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Discussion finished several posts ago LOL
Read careful my conclusions. From the position of Ma Long by each known science (not rule, but science, maths, geometry), the ball must go minimum the level of table's surface after the jump or higher. Because it is OUT OF SIDELINE.
It didn't happen, but Ma Long asked the point for him. Please. Topic gone too large, we discussed all about that behaviour of Ma Long. Ask some professional player what he thinks for that and come back, you are welcome. Wink

Maybe it is due to language barrier, but I don't really understand your conclusion.
Maybe what you consider table's surface is difference from what I think it is.
I made the image below. From my point of view, the ball in that position can hit the the top surface, goes downwards, and it is valid.



You are emphasising that the ball comes from the side, but it has much more vertical movement than side movement. The shot is almost paralell to the table and goes over the net. I don't understand your point of the ball initial position being to the side of the table. It is almost irrelevant because it is too close. If we were talking about an around the net shot made a few feet from the side of the table, than I would agree with you, but that's not the case.

If in that position of the image it is not possible for the ball to go down, than I am really lacking in science/ maths/ geometry, and you can disconsider this post.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LongLips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2022 at 5:26am
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by LongLips LongLips wrote:


"I am not talking for assumptions but for a facts about ML's position together with the ball. Out of side line. No need to repeat the same each time. "

Saying that his body and the ball were outside of the lines proves absolutely nothing. Here is a well-know example which I'm sure you wouldn't argue should be FZD's point.

From a camera angle that is above the table, as we have for this point you're talking about, it's almost impossible to tell what vertical trajectory the ball bounced at. That's where ML clearly disagreed with the umpire. But you can stop mentioning where the ball or his body were at point of contact




Not sure what's your point here. Can you give me link of the situation on the right seconds?
 Edit: I watched that point. Nothing common with the point discussed here.
No one hit the edge and no complain here do you understand?


My point I'm trying to make is this:
In your first post you made a little picture highlighting that at the point of contact, the ball and ML's body were outside of the sidelines. My point is that this doesn't matter at all, and it happens constantly in table tennis (e.g., my picture above from wttc final). You keep repeating this same argument about where the ball and his body are at contact, and it proves absolutely nothing. I copied the times I'm referring to where you keep making this argument at the end of this post. My point is that your picture and its zoom, and every sentence below, prove nothing.

Clearly there's disagreement and uncertainty regarding the trajectory of the ball off the edge of the table, or where exactly on that edge the ball hit. But that has nothing to do with your 'HIS BODY AND BALL ARE OUTSIDE THE TABLE' argument. Really we need a different camera angle to settle it.

quotes:
It is not about a serve, but Ma Long attacked a ball out of table, visible on the picture.

Please. Ma Long was with ALL HIS BODY OUT of side line of the table also and the ball was out.

Even if the ball was on the edge, Ma Long is OUT of side lines, Ball is OUT of side lines.

Please do not write Ma Long had no any idea he is Out of the side line with all his body and his bat in the moment of the hit was also out and he didn't recognized that fact.

First of all, you are trying to tell me ML didn't recognize he was with all his body out of the side line and also his bat with the ball in the moment of the contact?

Ma Long pretty well know where is his body according to the table. And during the hit, his eyes are focused on the ball. Do you think he didn't recognize he was all out with the ball and bat from the side line?

According all these facts I mentioned (or you think ML can't recognize there are about one racket space between his bat and sideline)

 as he was out of the side line with all his body together with the ball in the moment of the hit.


Of course, but it depends the position of the player's body and ball according the side lines. That's what I am trying to explain from the start ot the topic. Did Ma long realize he is out with the ball together of the side lines, or he still thought he is "in"

I am not talking for assumptions but for a facts about ML's position together with the ball. Out of side line. No need to repeat the same each time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2022 at 8:59am
Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:

Maybe it is due to language barrier, but I don't really understand your conclusion.
Maybe what you consider table's surface is difference from what I think it is.
I made the image below. From my point of view, the ball in that position can hit the the top surface, goes downwards, and it is valid.

You are emphasising that the ball comes from the side, but it has much more vertical movement than side movement. The shot is almost paralell to the table and goes over the net. I don't understand your point of the ball initial position being to the side of the table. It is almost irrelevant because it is too close. If we were talking about an around the net shot made a few feet from the side of the table, than I would agree with you, but that's not the case.

If in that position of the image it is not possible for the ball to go down, than I am really lacking in science/ maths/ geometry, and you can disconsider this post.


I have explained everything pretty simple I think. Looking the table as aggregation of geometrical planes - you can see several different figures which are part of different planes/level. Not sure how to explain with maths language fully professional, but I will do my best with the picture bellow.

No matter the ball is coming vertical. Here is your mistake, because by the law of two nearside planes, we have completely different cases here depending its trajectory after the ball touch. If the ball after the touch is going equal or higher the line of the horizontal plane, it could be counted for EDGE. If the ball is going lower - it is SIDE.

Every teacher of maths can explain you this problem pretty easy.  Law of tangents could be in use here.
If I know these things from a long time ago, I am surprised Ma Long is not familiar with them. And If he know these things (he surely know them!?), why he is acting like that?
If he doesn't know these things (it will be suspicious), why he is not familiar? CNT don't make enough education for their members or what?

Specially for me, the reaction of Ma Long in that case was pretty dishonest.

Hope that was enough.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2022 at 9:02am
A point not made in this 3 page discussion (at least not explicitly imo) is that two players can see the same thing and perceive it differently-while still being honest, fair sportsmen (sportspeople). While there are those who are willing to cheat, I default to being believing the best of an opponent. For myself, I would rather lose than even have the perception of cheating.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2022 at 9:05am
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

I am surprised Ma Long is not familiar with them. And If he know these things (he surely know them!?), why he is acting like that?
If he doesn't know these things (it will be suspicious), why he is not familiar? CNT don't make enough education for their members or what?

Specially for me, the reaction of Ma Long in that case was pretty dishonest.


This is were you are stirring unnecessary nonsense again.

Even if Ma Long has known, during that adrenaline rush (and not video replay that you have at that moment), he felt it was in, so he called for it.

It is not the first time players both call for it (calling the opposite).
It doesn't mean one of the party is dishonest.

Because you face someone dishonest before, you think every one else is dishonest
This is a problem that I am trying to address all this time.

You tend to express that you are of a decent level. But if you are in that kind of zone, last thing going in your head is some mathematical theory. All action and reactions are based on feelings, and not the brain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2022 at 10:50am
this whole insinuation of ML being unsportsman is just nonsense, anybody without great bias won't go on and on about it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Love_my_dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/18/2022 at 12:46pm

It's difficult to see if the ball hits the edge from the video but Ma Long thought it did and claimed, in which it is totally possible that the ball can hit the edge so Ma wins the point. The umpire did not agree while Boll was not sure and nevertheless gave the point to Ma in next play after he was awarded the point in dispute, which is applaudable.

Ma Long was not a cheater in this particular case and just behaved naturally as many may also do.

The ball at issue reminds me of the so-called "passing shot" (chuanyue, 穿越, in Chinese, and the term is borrowed from tennis), i.e., hitting the ball way side and without overpassing the top of the net and landing the ball on the table. To make a passing shot, you don't necessarily hit the ball above the table height (it is also possible that the ball touches the edge of the table) and the player win the point. It does not matter where you initiate the attack as long as the ball land on the table including the edge of the table, the attacker win the point.

 


Edited by Love_my_dog - 05/19/2022 at 2:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2022 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

A point not made in this 3 page discussion (at least not explicitly imo) is that two players can see the same thing and perceive it differently-while still being honest, fair sportsmen (sportspeople). While there are those who are willing to cheat, I default to being believing the best of an opponent. For myself, I would rather lose than even have the perception of cheating.
 

Very nice comment from your side for the sportsmanship.
I was at your side when I was younger. And what I have found - If I know I am right,
but I make exceptions, next time my opponent is going more rude instead to return the
gesture. Umpires were not available, of course. So, what I found for best? Just leaving the table.
If there are enough proofs and technical explanations, why you are thinking you must always to
ignore the rules or science in someone's favour?
First part of your comment I think is wrong, because again we are going for perceiving and feelings.
Each ITTF umpire has instruction how to act in such a case, it is pretty simple and I have been displayed already.
Something more - Boll made verbal explanation to Long that the ball gone down, so it's side.
There is not any chance ball sent from outside the side lines and going down after touching the table's edge to be counted for EDGE. There is maths behind this.
The nearside umpire also confirmed that.
But Ma Long continued with his sad face and Boll gave him the next ball like he is playing with some junior from the middle school.
I don't agree with both sides, because no one is going to find America again or the hot water.
But at least, in the end seems Boll was at your side, despite he was pretty right when he explained
the dropping of the ball to Ma Long.

According to your opinion : What will happen if everyone is starting to has his own imagination for the situations like that and makes sad faces all the time something is not in his favour?
For what are these umpires posted there? Of course, umpires make mistakes sometimes, but here the ball just dropped without any even miniature chance to be counted as EDGE. It was SIDE not 100%, but 1100%.
Only Ma Long didn't see it/feel it.

And the topic gone too large because I have not expected 15 years later these technical things about the rules are still not regulated, so the key word to focus here were just FEELINGS.
Someone could say I probably envy to Ma Long. Nothing like that. All chinese players are genial  athletes, no one of CNT is some exclamation. But these dishonest things must be exposed.
Someone must call the things with their real names.
I am glad I was part of this discussion.  I found several points of view different than mine.

That situation I could compare with some catastrophe. You are pressing the gas to overtake the car in front of you and just hit the blinker of the car versus you before to go back in your lane. A policeman was driving behind you in that moment and saw everything. You won't go and say: But sir, I had feeling I will be on time back in my lane and to rely on condescension from the victim.

Hope my topic made sense, because if this situation was a matchpoint - I am not sure it would be done like that. So, here we have behaviour according situation. I don't like these things, anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2022 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Love_my_dog Love_my_dog wrote:


It's difficult to see if the ball hits the edge from the video but Ma Long thought it did and claimed, in which it is totally possible that the ball can hit the edge so Ma wins the point. The umpire did not agree while Boll was not sure and nevertheless gave the point to Ma in next play after he was awarded the point in dispute, which is applaudable.

Ma Long was not a cheater in this particular case and just behaved naturally as many may also do.

The ball at issue reminds me of the so-called "passing shot" (chuanyue, 穿越, in Chinese, and the term is borrowed from tennis), i.e., hitting the ball way side and without overpassing the top of the net and landing the ball on the table. To make a passing shot, you don't necessarily hit the ball above the table height (it is also possible that the ball touches the edge of the table) and the player win the point. It does not matter where you initiate the attack as long as the ball land on the table including the edge of the table, the attacker win the point.


I am talking for experience too. You don't need to go 10cm from the table to see the ball is going down and not equal on the table's surface position after touching the table's edge. Touching table's edge in this situation when the ball is out of the side line is not any edge.
Here the situation in table tennis has nothing common with the same in the tennis, because tennis court is just 1 one plane (the ground), while in table tennis we have several planes, it is important.
Cheating or not, that behaviour was not correct for me and I posted all the proofs for that.
Of course, some members have posted things slightly out of topics, but these things don't make ML innocent in the situation.
And once again I will write - if the rally was for match point I doubt it would finish without scandal. Because it is scandal, no matter how invisible is looking at 1st view.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2022 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

this whole insinuation of ML being unsportsman is just nonsense, anybody without great bias won't go on and on about it


Hi Tom! When the facts speak for themselves, I think it's okay not to offend me. I can call your involvement in the topic an insinuation. I have nothing versus TB or ML, but commented the situation they both were involved during a rally through my own view with detailed explanations.
The truth is usually coming after the arguing, I think it is visible already.

What is your goal here? There are lot of topics to get a part out of this one.
Of course, if you have some arguments I'll be glad to read them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 9:10am
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

this whole insinuation of ML being unsportsman is just nonsense, anybody without great bias won't go on and on about it


Hi Tom! When the facts speak for themselves, I think it's okay not to offend me. I can call your involvement in the topic an insinuation. I have nothing versus TB or ML, but commented the situation they both were involved during a rally through my own view with detailed explanations.
The truth is usually coming after the arguing, I think it is visible already.

What is your goal here? There are lot of topics to get a part out of this one.
Of course, if you have some arguments I'll be glad to read them.


read your own words:
stole that point?

Should be interesting if he (ML) is able to explain WHAT EXACTLY he wanted after that rally.

I am not insulting anyone

I can not be sure what exactly ML wanted after all. That's my question here. There are two points of view:
1/Lack of knowledge
2/Action on purpose

do you still think his behaviour was not in purpose?


If he doesn't know these things (it will be suspicious), why he is not familiar? CNT don't make enough education for their members or what?

and now compare with this:

so if you do something stupid or make a mistake and  do we then go and say, why doesn't his parent teach him anything at home? how come he has no education? is his behviour on purpose
Oh and I'm not insulting any one (but only the parents and the person)

You are biased and people have tried to give you a wider view of the incident. But you can't accept it, because you made that judgement years ago already. And even if Ma Long came to speak to you, you won't believe him too.

As I said, many times 2 people argue over edge/side in ITTF events.
So your only theory is, one is dishonest and the other is honest?
There is a good chance that both is honest, but only one is right and the other could be wrong?
and wrong does not = dishonest you know.

right and wrong is okay.
claiming someone who plays dishonestly is insulting, so well done on labeling it
so Please, give it a thought that Ma Long could be honestly wrong and also honestly right and not only dishonestly wrong.

My last post in this thread.


Edited by ZApenholder - 05/20/2022 at 9:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

this whole insinuation of ML being unsportsman is just nonsense, anybody without great bias won't go on and on about it


Hi Tom! When the facts speak for themselves, I think it's okay not to offend me. I can call your involvement in the topic an insinuation. I have nothing versus TB or ML, but commented the situation they both were involved during a rally through my own view with detailed explanations.
The truth is usually coming after the arguing, I think it is visible already.

What is your goal here? There are lot of topics to get a part out of this one.
Of course, if you have some arguments I'll be glad to read them.
not arguing about technical things.  My end point is this - I won't entertain any notion that ML is not a good sportsman.  No insult here but you are not ML (neither is anybody that will write in this forum).  Just my viewpoint.  No facts to be discussed and I won't change my view on this.  Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

My last post in this thread.


You have 3 more to reach 4444. You are welcome.

Anyway, posting FACTS and asking questions aren't acts of insulting.
Everyone must be brave enough to discuss these things of bad behaviour.
Or maybe that behaviour is bad, but good in the same time? I am mixed here with
your statement. If you count the facts for all about I shared for insulting...........
Yes, you are right about something : I won't believe him if he says he didn't know
where is the ball according the side line in the moment of the shot.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

not arguing about technical things.  My end point is this - I won't entertain any notion that ML is not a good sportsman.  No insult here but you are not ML (neither is anybody that will write in this forum).  Just my viewpoint.  No facts to be discussed and I won't change my view on this.  Thank you.


haha not arguing for technical things, but here is the main point about that topic.
Nobody posted he is not a good sportsman, but here in this rally exactly I am going to be suspicious.
Same thing happened with Samsonov during his rally VS Persson in Beijing 2008.
Nobody said Samsonov is not a good sportsman, but there he was not right to do so.
It is a question of moral maybe more than the feeling you must win at each price.
No facts to be discussed? Maybe the video and all the explanations are not enough for you.
In this case I really have not what to add.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

not arguing about technical things.  My end point is this - I won't entertain any notion that ML is not a good sportsman.  No insult here but you are not ML (neither is anybody that will write in this forum).  Just my viewpoint.  No facts to be discussed and I won't change my view on this.  Thank you.


haha not arguing for technical things, but here is the main point about that topic.
Nobody posted he is not a good sportsman, but here in this rally exactly I am going to be suspicious.
Same thing happened with Samsonov during his rally VS Persson in Beijing 2008.
Nobody said Samsonov is not a good sportsman, but there he was not right to do so.
It is a question of moral maybe more than the feeling you must win at each price.
No facts to be discussed? Maybe the video and all the explanations are not enough for you.
In this case I really have not what to add.
You know my position and I know yours but we are on different plains.
Let me ask you this, lets say that there is a truly saintly person and have never done anything wrong or immoral except for one instance he did something that is debatably wrong, but it did not have any great consequence.  Then someone keeps on debating this instance.  Do you think this person is wasting his time?  Maybe for you -no, but we could start a survey here or you could just ask your friends or love ones on their view.


Edited by tom - 05/20/2022 at 1:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

You know my position and I know yours but we are on different plains.
Let me ask you this, lets say that there is a truly saintly person and have never done anything wrong or immoral except for one instance he did something that is debatably wrong, but it did not have any great consequence.  Then someone keeps on debating this instance.  Do you think this person is wasting his time?  Maybe for you -no, but we could start a survey here or you could just ask your friends or love ones on their view.


My opinion is simple -  there are no people who are sinless. Exactly here is the focus on this topic.
Several forum members, including yourself in that amount, are trying to explain even if he is not correct, he is also not wrong. I am not sure such a situation exist. According to the set of the circumstances, exactly in this point ML is more wrong than right. Each person is right for himself, that's why there are umpires involved in the sport games and not only. Seems no matter how great champion is someone, sometimes he is not getting correct decision exactly by the so called set of circumstances.
Ma Long no doubt is wonderful player, wonderful athlete, great champion. I am sure he has watched that rally after the match and get his lesson. I am not sure if he was involved in another situation like this after that.
I don't think I am wasting my time, I received valuable information, remembering what exactly has been happened there in this rally. The conclusion according the facts posted is pretty clear.
If you decide to add something additional we haven't discussed - you are welcome.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LongLips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

All chinese players are genial  athletes, no one of CNT is some exclamation. But these dishonest things must be exposed.
Someone must call the things with their real names.
I am glad I was part of this discussion.


I'm glad it seems like we're finally getting to the root of this bizarre and incredibly tedious thread. We could have saved a lot of time if you had have just come out and said openly from the start that you want to say the CNT are dishonest/cheaters. Or maybe you have a more general prejudice against the whole country. Just say what you think then, you'd save everyone time.

You keep talking about facts and maths but you've proven nothing. You're whole sideline thing is pointless, and you cannot tell better than anyone else here at what trajectory the ball bounced at, since you also only have this above camera angle. You just keep repeating the same non-points about it being outside the line and saying it bounced downwards, but with no actual support. Your use of capital letters however is unrivaled.

If this is the only evidence you've managed to find in these years, maybe it's time to reconsider your anti-CNT or anti-chinese thing

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 5:59pm

"I don't think I am wasting my time, I received valuable information, remembering what exactly has been happened there in this rally. The conclusion according the facts posted is pretty clear."

If that makes your day or something like that , it's a free country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 6:21pm
if I was LongLips I would ask Kolevtt if he had  ever initiated a similar discussion on a non CNT player who is also of good reputation sportsman wise and is / was a great player.  If the answer is no - why not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2022 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

if I was LongLips I would ask Kolevtt if he had  ever initiated a similar discussion on a non CNT player who is also of good reputation sportsman wise and is / was a great player.  If the answer is no - why not?


Many threads I have started or I was a part of.
Mostly VS illegal serving or another dishonest things in tt.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2022 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by LongLips LongLips wrote:

Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

All chinese players are genial  athletes, no one of CNT is some exclamation. But these dishonest things must be exposed.
Someone must call the things with their real names.
I am glad I was part of this discussion.


I'm glad it seems like we're finally getting to the root of this bizarre and incredibly tedious thread. We could have saved a lot of time if you had have just come out and said openly from the start that you want to say the CNT are dishonest/cheaters. Or maybe you have a more general prejudice against the whole country. Just say what you think then, you'd save everyone time.

You keep talking about facts and maths but you've proven nothing. You're whole sideline thing is pointless, and you cannot tell better than anyone else here at what trajectory the ball bounced at, since you also only have this above camera angle. You just keep repeating the same non-points about it being outside the line and saying it bounced downwards, but with no actual support. Your use of capital letters however is unrivaled.

If this is the only evidence you've managed to find in these years, maybe it's time to reconsider your anti-CNT or anti-chinese thing



Are you chinese who is just not satisfied reading this topic?
I am not sure you have read all the comments I have posted here.
I have posted already the bad behaviour of Samsonov and Persson together from their match in Beijing 2008.

Why you are going to the racism's point?

I have nothing versus China or chinese players in general, but sometimes I am wondering about their behaviour together with many more and different players from all over the world. Here is forum for table tennis I think.
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