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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Do The Chinese Have An Edge In TT Due To Genetics?
    Posted: 04/20/2014 at 11:52am
Whites are virtually absent from the top ranks of sprinting but a look at the ancestry (or home country) of runners
holding the top 100 times in eight distances, from the 100 meters to the
marathon, makes it clear that African domination is deep.  Blacks who trace their ancestry to West Africa, including
African Americans, hold more than 95% of the top times in
sprinting.


That black athletes clearly have certain natural anatomical advantages that allow them to dominate in running and sports like basketball and football is not open to debate.

Similarly,  the Chinese have dominated table tennis for so long isn't it fair to ask to what degree biology predetermines or significantly influences the final results?

My personal belief (for reasons I can get into later) is that *all Asians* have a natural advantage over everyone else simply because in my opinion, they have faster reflexes....and that's kind of important in table tennis.

regards
rick





Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/21/2014 at 10:09am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:11pm

Cow pies and bull s***. Your comments are racist and 95% not true. Does that also mean Mr. Phelps who is white dominated the swimming world simply because he was white? Training and dedication determines success in sports not the color of a persons skin.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by frogger frogger wrote:


Cow pies and bull s***. Your comments are racist and 95% not true. Does that also mean Mr. Phelps who is white dominated the swimming world simply because he was white? Training and dedication determines success in sports not the color of a persons skin.


frogger

are you saying that African runners train harder than everyone else and that's all there is to it?

regarding mr phelps....if white's dominated swimming it would be a fair question.   Asians also dominate in diving fwiw.

regards
rick


Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/20/2014 at 12:21pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:20pm
fatt please consider removing this thread.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by frogger frogger wrote:

fatt please consider removing this thread.


frogger

why are you so threatened by these questions?    why are you so threatened by the fact that blacks of West African ancestry have evolved into the world's best sprinters?

regards
rick


Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/20/2014 at 12:26pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:38pm
No, they are not naturally superior. They just take the sport more seriously as a nation than other countries do, hence they dedicate more resources and time into practise. Not everyone has talent, there are many failures for each successful player in China. There are so many kids training in China that potential talent does not go to waste. Compare it to Germany, although they are relatively dominant in table tennis, there are much less kids playing table tennis, you never know, that boy down the road could be the next Waldner, but sadly he didn't play table tennis and would probably end up just like one of us. 




Edited by channyboi - 04/20/2014 at 12:45pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:43pm
Must be something in the Canadian water...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:46pm
The OP thesis is poorly reasoned. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by channyboi channyboi wrote:

No, they are not naturally superior. They just take the sport more seriously as a nation than other countries do, hence they dedicate more resources and time into practise. Not everyone has talent, there are many failures for each successful player in China. There are so many kids training that the alot more talented players are discovered.
You never know, if given the right chances and opportunities, the kid down your road could be the next Waldner. 




hi channyboi

thanks for the non overly emotional response....

my coach, who is chinese said that the best height for a ping pong player is 5'3...as a stroke by someone of this height looks the most natural when you factored in the height of the table.....he went on to say that because asians are shorter than everyone else they have a built in advantage...

i agree with him and i also think, as stated above, that the better reflexes Chinese have would also help.  

i understand that you don't agree with this. 

regards
rick




Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/20/2014 at 12:50pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Pushdeep Pushdeep wrote:

The OP thesis is poorly reasoned. 


Push

and your rebuttal is non existent.

regards
rick
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:51pm
For a sample size of one, it must be true.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

For a sample size of one, it must be true.


I'll be back at the Chinatown and Bridgeport club this year. I hope to see your 'serve'.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

For a sample size of one, it must be true.


I'll be back at the Chinatown and Bridgeport club this year. I hope to see your 'serve'.


and you will

regard
rick


Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/20/2014 at 10:54pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 1:01pm
Wow, you must be related to an Agent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by ByeByeAbout ByeByeAbout wrote:


my coach, who is chinese said that the best height for a ping pong player is 5'3...as a stroke by someone of this height looks the most natural when you factored in the height of the table.....he went on to say that because asians are shorter than everyone else they have a built in advantage...

i agree with him and i also think, as stated above, that the better reflexes Chinese have would also help.  

i understand that you don't agree with this. 

regards
rick


Interesting arguments ... one would think then, that we'd have several 5'3" players in the top 100.  How many current male players who are shorter than 5'5" can you name?

I'm curious whether your statement about faster reflexes is based on your intuition or on specific studies/data showing that top Asian TT players have faster reflexes than players from other parts of the world.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 1:25pm
Lol... It's truly disgusting thread...
It's better for me to quote mr Liu Guo Liang proverbs
It's not chinese players fault if they dominate tennis table But it's other countries who effort less than chinese"

It is same as in athletic? Yes it's...when you use motor n car.. They use their foot to life

It is like what CR7 said... The key of success are hardwork, evaluation and never satisfied...

Genetic has an effect but hardworks are more than it

Cmiiw
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

Originally posted by ByeByeAbout ByeByeAbout wrote:


my coach, who is chinese said that the best height for a ping pong player is 5'3...as a stroke by someone of this height looks the most natural when you factored in the height of the table.....he went on to say that because asians are shorter than everyone else they have a built in advantage...

i agree with him and i also think, as stated above, that the better reflexes Chinese have would also help.  

i understand that you don't agree with this. 

regards
rick


Interesting arguments ... one would think then, that we'd have several 5'3" players in the top 100.  How many current male players who are shorter than 5'5" can you name?

I'm curious whether your statement about faster reflexes is based on your intuition or on specific studies/data showing that top Asian TT players have faster reflexes than players from other parts of the world.


hi victor

i agreed with my coach that a swing by a 5'3 guy looked the most natural but i went on to say (which i neglected to mention in this post) that i felt that between  5'7-5'9 was the perfect height.

as to whether im basing my opinion that asians simply have faster reflexes i base that on neither intuition or studies...but rather observations....

after watching thousands of kids of all nationalities play for the last 30 yrs it just seemed quite obvious to me...it's not like it's a newsflash....

regards
rick




Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/20/2014 at 1:32pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by ByeByeAbout ByeByeAbout wrote:


hi victor

i agreed with my coach that a swing by a 5'3 guy looked the most natural but i went on to say (which i neglected to mention in this post) that i felt that between  5'7-5'9 was the perfect height.

as to whether im basing my opinion that asians simply have faster reflexes i base that on neither intuition or studies...but rather observations....

after watching thousands of kids of all nationalities play for the last 30 yrs it just seemed quite obvious to me...it's not like it's a newsflash....

regards
rick



Actually, it looks to me that both of your statements are "non-scientific" and based predominantly on your intuition ... unless you measured the reflexes and recorded and tabulated your observations for different races, and did correlation analysis between player hight and TT performance, adjusting for variable such as quality and quantity of training, etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 1:46pm
The ideal height of the player is a much more interesting topic, I believe it is 5'9 (175cm) for male players. At this height, he could reach easily and still do full body shots for power and quickly recover. He gets the best of all worlds. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by ByeByeAbout ByeByeAbout wrote:

My personal belief (for reasons I can get into later) is that *all Asians* have a natural advantage over everyone else simply because in my opinion, they have faster reflexes....and that's kind of important in table tennis.

regards
rick


Nah not buying it. Is it easier to be quicker the shorter and smaller you might be? Sure.

But that's not the reason why they dominate. They dominate because its their country's first sport. Therefore their training is of the highest quality, their best athletes play table tennis (Not the case in many other countries) and they literally have 1.3 billion people to choose from.

When you factor all that in, how could they not be #1?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Avallo Avallo wrote:



Genetic has an effect

Cmiiw


hi avallo

thanks for the thoughts.  as a percentage out of 100..to what degree does "genetics have an effect"?

regards
rick
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by ByeByeAbout ByeByeAbout wrote:


my coach, who is chinese said that the best height for a ping pong player is 5'3...as a stroke by someone of this height looks the most natural when you factored in the height of the table.....he went on to say that because asians are shorter than everyone else they have a built in advantage...


5'3 with 93g heavy blade would be perfect.:-)

C'mon, Chinese were not always, or better said never this superior. Remember many great players and several national teams from Europe? Obviously, nature has nothing with TT.
Life is too short for defensive play.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

Originally posted by ByeByeAbout ByeByeAbout wrote:


hi victor

i agreed with my coach that a swing by a 5'3 guy looked the most natural but i went on to say (which i neglected to mention in this post) that i felt that between  5'7-5'9 was the perfect height.

as to whether im basing my opinion that asians simply have faster reflexes i base that on neither intuition or studies...but rather observations....

after watching thousands of kids of all nationalities play for the last 30 yrs it just seemed quite obvious to me...it's not like it's a newsflash....

regards
rick



Actually, it looks to me that both of your statements are "non-scientific" and based predominantly on your intuition ... unless you measured the reflexes and recorded and tabulated your observations for different races, and did correlation analysis between player hight and TT performance, adjusting for variable such as quality and quantity of training, etc.


hi victor

there is plenty of scientific evidence to support the fact that black athletes are bigger, stronger and faster.  That's a done deal.    Having said that for years it was axiomatic that muscles have two types of fibers - white, or fast-twitch, which were thought to be adapted for power movements, such as leaping or sprinting; and red, or slow-twitch, which were adapted for endurance. Now we know the model is more complicated. There are in fact two different types of fast-twitch fibers, one more metabolically efficient. Whites on average have a higher percentage of slow-twitch fibers than West African blacks who generally have more of both types of fast-twitch fibers.

The Chinese widely accept that genetic differences affect sports performance.  During the 2004 Summer Olympics, the People's Daily wrote that Chinese are "suited" to sports that require agility and technique, such as ping-pong, badminton and gymnastics. The newspaper reported that Chinese have "congenital shortcomings" and "genetic differences" that means they are disadvantaged at purely athletic events.  --wiki

regards
rick
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by suds79 suds79 wrote:

Originally posted by ByeByeAbout ByeByeAbout wrote:

My personal belief (for reasons I can get into later) is that *all Asians* have a natural advantage over everyone else simply because in my opinion, they have faster reflexes....and that's kind of important in table tennis.

regards
rick


Nah not buying it. Is it easier to be quicker the shorter and smaller you might be? Sure.

But that's not the reason why they dominate. They dominate because its their country's first sport. Therefore their training is of the highest quality, their best athletes play table tennis (Not the case in many other countries) and they literally have 1.3 billion people to choose from.

When you factor all that in, how could they not be #1?



suds

i don't disagree with what you're saying.   I do however feel that the Chinese have a built in advantage with sports that require predominately agility and technique... which describes table tennis to a t.

regards
rick
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 2:34pm
It is known that short people move faster. I'm short too(not Chinese). I don't know if you have ever watched a short person running a sprint, we move our feet faster because the distance(between steps) is shorter. That's why playing TT is more natural for us(I'm not a good player, but I noticed that, because I don't train that much and I can play a good match against someone who trains a lot), you know the table in TT is short, our short feet move faster, and swings are smaller hence faster.

But that doesn't mean that Chinese are better, it is indeed more natural for them, but I think that dedication is the key here. If not, then why do we have tall players in the top 10 list ?.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 3:31pm
i don't think that they are naturally superior for table tennis. But I do think it's partly because of genetic that the Chinese dominate in table tennis.

Chinese/Asian people don't have advantage in table tennis. They are just "disadvantaged at purely athletic events", they don't have the height, strength and muscles to compete in other sports (sprinting, jumping, basket ball, football, etc.), that's why China chose to invest in table tennis, badminton, etc. which don't require such natural abilities.

When table tennis is the most popular sport in a country with 1.3 bil people and the gov invests heavily in it, no doubt they are no.1 And they still keep getting better very quickly.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 4:38pm
EUROPA. THE LAND OF DUNDERHEADS....

China will stay unbeatable as long as Europa stays with dunderheads.
   All the efforts to reproduce a blind copy of Chinese looping play is utterly helpless and will take you nowhere.

CRISS CROSS blocking play is the very solution needed for Europa overtakes asia on international arena in a few year time period.

In fact, any proficient coach could breed up the CCblockers in a home gymroom, and the blockers able to kill down many and many China loopers.

Give me a solid chank of money and I tell you the know-how..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 5:01pm
OP is just looking for trouble because he's a wana be smartarse. The Asian and European races share the same direct ancestors and are the most closely related races on the planet.

You won't see much of a performance difference between them because they are the same thing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by ByeByeAbout<br><br>there is plenty of scientific evidence to support the fact that black athletes are bigger, stronger and faster.  That's a done deal.    Having said that for years it was axiomatic that muscles have two types of fibers - 
white, or fast-twitch, which were thought to be adapted for power 
movements, such as leaping or sprinting; and red, or slow-twitch, which 
were adapted for endurance. Now we know the model is more complicated. 
There are in fact two different types of fast-twitch fibers, one more 
metabolically efficient. Whites on average have a higher percentage of 
slow-twitch fibers than West African blacks who generally have more of 
both types of fast-twitch fibers. <br><br>The Chinese widely accept that genetic differences affect sports performance.  During the <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Summer_Olympics target=_blank rel=nofollow>2004 Summer Olympics</a>, the <i><a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Daily target=_blank rel=nofollow>People's Daily</a></i> wrote that Chinese are suited to sports that require agility and technique, such as <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping-pong target=_blank rel=nofollow>ping-pong</a>, <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badminton target=_blank rel=nofollow>badminton</a> and <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnastics target=_blank rel=nofollow>gymnastics</a>.
 The newspaper reported that Chinese have congenital shortcomings and 
genetic differences that means they are disadvantaged at purely 
athletic events.  --wiki<br><br>regards<br>rick<br>[/QUOTE ByeByeAbout

there is plenty of scientific evidence to support the fact that black athletes are bigger, stronger and faster.  That's a done deal.    Having said that for years it was axiomatic that muscles have two types of fibers - white, or fast-twitch, which were thought to be adapted for power movements, such as leaping or sprinting; and red, or slow-twitch, which were adapted for endurance. Now we know the model is more complicated. There are in fact two different types of fast-twitch fibers, one more metabolically efficient. Whites on average have a higher percentage of slow-twitch fibers than West African blacks who generally have more of both types of fast-twitch fibers.

The Chinese widely accept that genetic differences affect sports performance.  During the 2004 Summer Olympics, the People's Daily wrote that Chinese are suited to sports that require agility and technique, such as ping-pong, badminton and gymnastics. The newspaper reported that Chinese have congenital shortcomings and genetic differences that means they are disadvantaged at purely athletic events.  --wiki

regards
rick
[/QUOTE wrote:



We were not discussing black athletes or muscle types - you made statements about ideal height, faster reflexes and genetic superiority of Asians related to TT, and I challenged you to support your subjective claims with evidence.

The article you quoted talks about suitability for certain sports, not genetic advantage or superiority, hence by no means does it support your claims.

We were not discussing black athletes or muscle types - you made statements about ideal height, faster reflexes and genetic superiority of Asians related to TT, and I challenged you to support your subjective claims with evidence.

The article you quoted talks about suitability for certain sports, not genetic advantage or superiority, hence by no means does it support your claims.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2014 at 5:05pm
And you can kiss your 5 foot 3 Asians goodbye. They don't subsist on rice anymore. The current generation are much taller than that.
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