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Does Popovich’s Grip deserve to be on the list? |
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Victor Popovich 
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Joined: 08/04/2022 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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 Topic: Does Popovich’s Grip deserve to be on the list?Posted: 08/22/2022 at 2:26pm |
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If you search on the Internet: table tennis grips, then in response you get- Shakehand Grip, Penhold Grip, RPG, Korean Grip, Japan Grip, Pistol Grip, and “V” Grip.
However, do all these grips deserve to be on the list of Table Tennis Grips? Over 10 years ago I invented blade and a new grip I called Parallel Penhold Grip.
There were topics: Parallel Penhold Grip, Posted: 01/11/2009 by brytaku25 Parallel penhold paddle and grip, Posted: 01/23/2009 by VictorPopovich. I have completed now an in-depth grip analysis of all these Grips (and mine one) and have resurrected my website. Please study my website and answer my two questions: 1 Do you agree with my conclusions from my site? 2 Does Popovich’s Grip deserve to be on the list of Table Tennis Grips? YouTube Video: Table Tennis. Popovich's grip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiejB8joTNA My site address is: www.ttnewgrip.com THANK YOU |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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TTslurp
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Posted: 08/22/2022 at 4:07pm |
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I agree with most of your conclusions and I like the location of the blade relative to your hand. Keep up the good work!
Edited by TTslurp - 08/22/2022 at 4:09pm |
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balldance
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Posted: 08/30/2022 at 4:21pm |
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It’s not easy for a normal person like me to understand and “agree” to a new invention/idea when I haven’t seen/tried it. I love innovation though and always like to try new things. I’d definitely love to try your blade if I play in the same club as you, unfortunately I’m too far away. I’ve tried a pistol grip blade before and it didn’t work for me. (But there are more than one types of pistol grip blades)
If you want to make your grip more popular, you need to convince a player that plays a modern attacking game, as high level as possible, to practice and play with your blade, if he plays well with it or even likes it better than his shakehand blades, then other players will be impressed and want to try your blade. I’d love to see videos of such player experimenting with your grip/blade. I saw videos of you playing with it but you have unique/unpopular technique so it’s really hard to know if it would work for others.
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stiltt
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Posted: 08/30/2022 at 7:36pm |
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I totally like it, it is pushing the Wang Hao bh to its extreme positives and the fh ends up reinforced. What I really like is that you can "throw" the blade away without any retaining, it won't fly out of our hands and that achieves highest explosiveness, acceleration and velocity at contact, this is the major feature and I applaud.
Just one remark: the handle stick itself is now useless and can be cut off right? unless it is necessary for balance? |
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blahness
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 12:07am |
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the problem with this grip is that the index finger is not touching the rubber itself - this lends to the blade face being unstable during certain FH strokes where control of the blade face is of utmost importance (say FH flick kill, FH loopkill). That however seems to be not that difficult of a fix to make given how close the index finger is to the rubber already.
There's someone else on the Chinese TT forums which created the concept of using a Jpen'esque attachment to the standard Cpen grip to allow the thumb and index finger to curl around it and make the grip a lot more secure - thus making it much easier to focus power on very powerful topspin strokes.
What makes the shakehand grip excellent is the concept of using the thumb and index finger to achieve delicate control of the blade face (penhold is similar except there's even more fingers on the back face which further increases blade face control on the FH side). To resolve this issue of the short FH being weak for the shakehand - simply rotate the blade by say 30 deg for the shakehand grip and keep everything the same - this will result in the ideal blade angle for FH flips and even BH chiquitas, while retaining all the advantages of the shakehand grip in the away from table game (power and stability). |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 12:14am |
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I believe the central resistance to grip changes is that a huge ton of training/coaching knowledge have been built on the top of the shakehand and penhold grips.
It's kinda like inventing a new CPU architecture - it's either Intel/AMD with x64 or the ARM architecture, new players never seem to make much headroom (even if they're technically superior!) because so much software has already been developed for these 2 architectures. So in order to compete, you'll need to invent all the "software" i.e. coaching knowledge, etc... to achieve parity with the shakehand/penhold grips. Not to mention, this looks like there's no product to purchase - how is one even going to start using it even if they're interested?
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Victor Popovich
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Joined: 08/04/2022 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 2:17pm |
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to balldance,
I agree with you about: …you need to convince a player that plays a modern attacking game, as high level as possible, to practice and play with your blade,… But ANY high level player that plays a modern attacking game will refuse to hold my blade with my grip longer than 5 minutes because he/she spend years/decades to use shakehand or penhold grip to achieve high level. There is a section on my site: “Why is my blade not on sale?”. When i read your: …you have a unique/unpopular technique… then I realized that this was written by a player/coach with excellent knowledge of Table Tennis and this knowledge is enough to have an opinion about: 2 Does Popovich’s Grip deserve to be on the list of Table Tennis Grips? But I could be wrong, because you also write that … It’s not easy for a normal person like me to understand and “agree” to a new invention/idea… |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 2:42pm |
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to stiltt
Firstly, if a longitudinal handle is really superfluous to someone, then it can be cut off and my grip will remain. However, do not do it. Please, read the “Balancing” section on my website. Have you watched my videos? I was sure that I have a standard technique. I studied, filmed videos and tried to correct my mistakes. And suddenly I find out that I have …unique/unpopular technique… What do you think of my technique? |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 3:12pm |
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to blahness
…the problem with this grip is that the index finger is not touching the rubber itself… You forgot a very important little thing - …is not touching the… FOREHAND rubber. Using penhold grip and especially RPG index finger is not touching the FOREHAND RUBBER AT ALL. Just like penhold grip and RPG have fantastic forehand attacking strokes and at the same time index finger is not touching the FOREHAND rubber (and with RPG it doesn’t touch any rubber at all), then I’m sure that all your further reasoning about my grip is not correct. As for …To resolve this issue of the short FH being weak for the shakehand… my site has a section “Auxiliary grips:” with video. |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 3:38pm |
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to blahness
…central resistance to grip changes… Agree 100%. There is a section on my site: “Why is my blade not on sale?”. Unfortunately there are different types of RESISTANCES……… Fact: Seemiller's Grip - and “V" Grip are listed on various sites. Please read the sections on my site: “Seemiller's Grip”, “V" grip”, “Hammer Grip” and “Popovich racket and grips”. It will take no more than 5 minutes. And answer the question: Does Popovich’s Grip deserve to be on the list of Table Tennis Grips? |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 4:10pm |
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to blahness
…the problem with this grip is that the index finger is not touching the rubber itself… I am sorry. It should be: You forgot a very important little thing - …is not touching the… BACKHAND rubber. And Using penhold grip and especially RPG index finger is not touching the BACKHAND RUBBER AT ALL. Just like penhold grip and RPG have fantastic forehand attacking strokes and at the same time index finger is not touching the BACKHAND rubber (and with RPG it doesn’t touch any rubber at all), then I’m sure that all your further reasoning about my grip is not correct. As for …To resolve this issue of the short FH being weak for the shakehand… my site has a section “Auxiliary grips:” with video. |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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blahness
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 7:15pm |
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It's really strange why you would go to all the trouble of getting a patent and promoting it if you're not selling it.... The market is not necessarily that unfriendly to niche grips - I did see similar weird grips being sold in TT stores (including hammer grips etc). And the success of the Stiga Cybershape is another.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 7:26pm |
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Your grip is basically similar to shakehand (thumb on one side, four fingers on the other) except it is angled like a penhold grip which is a really good concept. Hence the fundamentals of the shakehand grip with the thumb and index finger controlling and stabilising the grip face (and even applying power) is quite important. The rubber also prevents the index finger from slipping. Maybe you could create some extra room in the blade to allow more rubber surface area to be put on it. At higher levels there is a lot more power going into the strokes, without good stability of the blade face controlled by the fingers one can't be consistent with powerful strokes.... Also most very high level penholders play with the back 3 fingers touching the rubber and stabilising the blade face, and they have 2 fingers - thumb and index finger on the other side, so the control of the blade face is even higher than that in shakehand.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
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Posted: 08/31/2022 at 7:39pm |
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if it was on sale for a reasonable price, I might even buy 1 just for fun lol. I don't think it'll be that difficult of a transition coming from shakehand. There are a lot of EJs around haha....
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 09/01/2022 at 12:20pm |
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to blahness
Perhaps there was my mistake that I did NOT …go to all the trouble of getting a patent and promoting it… I received a patent in 2005. Then and now, I am sure of what I described on my site in the section “Why is my blade not on sale?”. …I did see similar weird grips being sold in TT stores… It is not possible to sell/buy table tennis grips. You can sell/buy blades and racquets. Racquet is a blade with glued rubber sheets on it. …including hammer grips… There is no blade for hammer grip. Any racquet for shakehand grip is good for the hammer grip. |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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stiltt
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Posted: 09/01/2022 at 12:34pm |
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Who's gonna be the 1st Mytt member ordering a Popovitch SDC blade? not to worry, the PSDC name should not traumatize anybody :)
Edited by stiltt - 09/01/2022 at 6:35pm |
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ZApenholder
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Posted: 09/01/2022 at 1:22pm |
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Hi Victor Very interesting. I am a cpen player, and as all cpen, have a strong fh. My first impression is that, the bat might fly out of my hand. and second impression is that, I won't be able to use the wrist movement of how I would do with cpen grip.
I'm not sure if I'm missing anything - care to share what you think of my concerns? Edited by ZApenholder - 09/01/2022 at 1:23pm |
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 09/02/2022 at 11:34am |
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to blahness
… Maybe you could create some extra room in the blade… What for? In my grip, the finger does not lie on the rubber, but lies on the longitudinal handle and only touches the rubber. In addition, the playing surface of forehand side is the same as that of shakehand blades. To increase this surface there is no point. Rubber band sizes are limited and the usable size on the backhand side is larger in my grip than in penhold grip or RPG due to the fact that my three fingers are bent over the cross handle and do not take up space on the rubber. … Also most very high level penholders play with the back 3 fingers touching the rubber… In my grip, all fingers touch something and increase control, and flexibility is clearly visible in my YouTube video “Table Tennis Popovich's Grip Song of Relaxed Wrist & Hand” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiejB8joTNA |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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bigzeke
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Posted: 09/02/2022 at 4:09pm |
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Victor- You need to make some blades or have someone make them for you. There are a lot of EJ's out there that would try them. I would try one for sure.
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 09/03/2022 at 11:02am |
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Hi ZApenholder
Have you seen my video “Table Tennis Popovich's Grip Song of Relaxed Wrist & Hand”? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiejB8joTNA …My first impression is that, the bat might fly out of my hand… My grip allows ALL fingers to open 25 mm (1 inch) and the racquet does NOT fly out. You are sure that with Shakehand, Penhold or RPH the racket does not fly out. My grip is better than Shakehand, Penhold or RPG about fly out. …I won't be able to use the wrist movement of how I would do with cpen grip… In the title of my video “…Song of Relaxed Wrist & Hand”. You can't repeat my song with your cpen grip because your racket will fly out. |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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ZApenholder
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Posted: 09/03/2022 at 11:15am |
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Hi Victor So yes, I have seen your video and that is where my questions come from and the question is still valid. Have you tried with 20 or 30 high power FH shots in a row, from around 1.5m to 2m from the table with say atleast a 2400 level player to see if the raquect will fly out or not. To be fair, a trial of 10 hours of FH top spin with say 20 players each is more correct for any sample size. I am sure about SH and PH FH not flying out - so many 2600+ players and it hardly ever happens, so I don't think you need to consider bringing in SH or PEN into answering my questions. SH and PEN been in the market for decade. Your concept is new and other than your 4min video, do you have more sample size, or actually using it in a tournament? And for the 2nd question, why would I want to repeat your song? I asked a simple question, since wrist movement is the major advantage of Cpen grip. Back to sampling - have you tried serving the ball with it for starters? How is the wrist action compared to normal Cpen grip. Let me add a 3rd question. Who is your intended target audience? is it slow players, or fast players (maybe this will explain flying out question). Edited by ZApenholder - 09/03/2022 at 11:17am |
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BRS
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Posted: 09/03/2022 at 11:49am |
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To go back to the OP - how many people use Popovich's grip besides Popovich?
There is an implied "commonly used" in the search string "table tennis grips." There are many players who have a unique grip and play at a good level. We have one just in my club. It's a big club, but there are probably 500,000 equivalent clubs worldwide. If one unique-grip player per club is roughly accurate (small sample size!) then Google would need to list the main grips, plus Popovich's grip, Juanito's grip, Sven's grip, Li's grip, and ~ 499,996 others. This is patently ridiculous. So No is the answer to your OP. Popovich's grip does not deserve to be on the list.
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 09/03/2022 at 12:31pm |
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to BRS
Your post made me laugh out loud! Really, your laughter and decision - my grip is unworthy of being on the list based on the fact that ... you did not find anyone but me using my grip. I don't know what you think about V-grip, but V-grip not only does deserve to be on the list, it is ALREADY ON THE LIST. Please do the same with the V-grip as you did with my grip and I'm already starting to wait, your answer to my question: How many people use V-grip in tournaments? |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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BRS
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Posted: 09/03/2022 at 1:34pm |
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Your argument is irrelevant, as you probably know. If the V grip should not be on the list either, that hardly means every grip that nobody much uses should be added for fairness. And please refrain from lying about what I said. ".. you did not find anyone but me using my grip." Nonsense. I didn't waste time looking for anyone else using your grip. I asked you directly -- how many people use Popovich's grip. Care to answer? Trolls are skilled at evading direct questions and throwing up strawmen. The V grip is just that. Either answer the question about usage of Popovich's grip, or confess you are a troll.
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Victor Popovich
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Posted: 09/03/2022 at 2:39pm |
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You suggested To go back to the OP -…
At the very beginning of this topic, I asked two questions: 1 Do you agree with my conclusions from my site? 2 Does Popovich's Grip deserve to be on the list of Table Tennis Grips? You love arguments and I do. I asked my question: 1 Do you agree with my conclusions from my site? before you ask yours? So, please, answer first you. Write that you read my site and found illogicalities there, which I ask you to list and give me your arguments. Either give me your arguments about the illogical in my site, or confess you are a troll. |
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Popovich's blade, Yasaka Rakza7 2.0mm, Nittaku Best Anti 1.3mm
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BRS
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Posted: 09/03/2022 at 6:17pm |
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I'll stop feeding you now. Have a lovely day.
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blahness
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Posted: 09/04/2022 at 12:35am |
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Popovich seems to be quite an eccentric guy looking from his replies here, but it looks as if this will be quite incompatible with Cpen ppl despite how it looks like. Fundamentally it is still more like a shakehand grip because it's three fingers holding a handle, index finger on BH side and thumb on FH side. I think it will play similar to shakehand too, except with the added advantage of more advantageous blade angles for the FH push and flick (as the blade will be pointing downwards). I think shakehand players like myself would find themselves quite at home with this grip tbh as all the finger adjustments are the same (index finger to close FH blade angle, thumb to close BH blade angle). Penholders who rely on middle fingers on the FH and the thumb/index finger for the RPB will really struggle to adjust to this grip imo.
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blahness
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Posted: 09/04/2022 at 12:40am |
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Agreed, if he made one (subcontracted one to say a TT blade manufacturer in China) and started to sell them, I too would try one out for the right price. Something like a innerforce blade composition would be perfect for it imo. Right now, without a real product, all these discussions are pretty useless because he's the only one using his grip.... even if he has a superior product than shakehand/penhold (I can totally see his argument - this combines the advantages of the shakehand BH and blade stability with the penhold angles for short game).
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blahness
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Posted: 09/04/2022 at 12:50am |
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I think the biggest limitations is actually in terms of serving - i don't think the standard shakehand Waldner service grip (with 3 fingers) will be possible with this grip as it would take too long to switch grips. However, you could still do hook serves and full grip FH pendulum (similar to what Harimoto does) - I do these for the most part too so I think I would be able to use this easily...
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blahness
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Posted: 09/04/2022 at 12:53am |
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I've seen many inventors spend crazy hours on their invention and try to promote it af all to no avail simply because they don't go to product ASAP. Imo the OP missed out on 10 years - which is a big mistake, but he can still do it now with some Chinese contract blade manufacturer.
I do have created some novel programs which I still sell for a decent profit online - it's all about pushing your product to be available ASAP.
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Victor Popovich wrote: