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Double hit is legal!

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    Posted: 11/20/2012 at 11:55pm
http://tabletennis.about.com/od/importantrules/a/importantrules_3.htm

Some rules that may surprise you.

1. You CAN double hit the ball (of course intentional double hits/soccer plays are illegal)
2. You CAN hit the ball with any part of your playing hand(while holding the racket)
3. You CAN hit the ball with any part of your racket including handle

Ball hits hand then racket, legal! Ball hits hand twice, legal! Ball hits racket then hand, legal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2012 at 12:57am
The double hit rule was implemented in recent years. But I don't think many ppl know that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2012 at 11:57am
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

http://tabletennis.about.com/od/importantrules/a/importantrules_3.htm

Ball hits hand then racket, legal!
Ball hits hand twice, legal!
Ball hits racket then hand, legal!
 
 
Need to practice those shots. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j-bo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2012 at 12:48pm
so..say your opponent hits the ball...you go to block it hits the back of your hand..you can then take another swing at it and hit it with your paddle?

Edited by j-bo - 11/21/2012 at 12:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2012 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by j-bo j-bo wrote:

so..say your opponent hits the ball...you go to block it hits the back of your hand..you can then take another swing at it and hit it with your paddle?


No. It has to be ONE swing. You can't assist to yourselfLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2012 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by j-bo j-bo wrote:

so..say your opponent hits the ball...you go to block it and or say it hits the back of your hand..you can thentake another swing at it ? it hits your finger...you can then try and hit it with your paddle?

If you're taking a second swing, that would be considered intentional. Soccer trapping/carry plays/intentional double hits are not allowed. I don't think it's humanely possible to intentionally double hit unless you're stopping the ball/trapping the ball in soccer. Your hand reaction time would have to be .01 ms. 
But let's say you are superhuman, it would make more sense to use your insane reaction time to hit an easy winner, than going for an unreliable and inefficient double hit. 


Edited by popperlocker - 11/21/2012 at 1:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j-bo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2012 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by j-bo j-bo wrote:

so..say your opponent hits the ball...you go to block it hits the back of your hand..you can then take another swing at it and hit it with your paddle?


No. It has to be ONE swing. You can't assist to yourselfLOL


Shucks... I was going to invent the assist and winners stat or as they say in other sports, a "double/double". Wink

Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeIgado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2012 at 2:23pm
I wish this rule was more known. I almost got into a fight with some fat kid because he was wrong and I was right. Damn you ittf rules constantly changing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2012 at 1:02pm
Rule was changed in 2008 (following a long standing example of tennis and badminton). So it's not very recent - also it is one of just a few ITTF changes which actually make sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmerkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2012 at 4:15pm
I had to make a ruling as an ump once where one player accidentally hit it with his hand and the other stopped playing, thinking it was an illegal hit. I got some pretty incredulous looks when I ruled the point against him
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahmike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2012 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Rule was changed in 2008 (following a long standing example of tennis and badminton). So it's not very recent - also it is one of just a few ITTF changes which actually make sense.
To clarify, although the double hit rule is also applicable to tennis, if one of the two hits makes contact with the hand, the point is awarded to your opponent. Both hits have to make contact with the tennis racquet for the shot to be legal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jumpulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 12:39pm
The secret of consistency in sports is prolonged contact, which can cause double-hitting. Prolonged contact can be achieved by applying a jumpulse, which is a sudden change of force, at the precise moment of contact (http://double-hit.com; http://jumpulse.com; http://jumpulsetennis.com). Actually, double-hitting is the best way to practice prolonged contact. I have published a book in 1978 on tt, and I'm glad to see that tt rule is no longer violating physics! Double-hitting was legalized in tennis since 1980s. Golf has yet to change its rule on double-hitting to obey physics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by jumpulse jumpulse wrote:

...I'm glad to see that tt rule is no longer violating physics! Double-hitting was legalized in tennis since 1980s. Golf has yet to change its rule on double-hitting to obey physics.


Rules cannot "violate" physics anymore than you could "jumpulse" (there is simply no such word).

It is really laughable to see phrases like "Golf has yet to change its rule on double-hitting to obey physics." as if golf balls somehow manage to NOT obey physics. As well as a strange idea that changing the rules of golf (purely bureaucratic matter which will not surely be able to change the universal laws of gravity, reflection and such) might make golf suddenly start "obeying" those laws.

Please read your stuff before you post, OK?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by mmerkel mmerkel wrote:

I had to make a ruling as an ump once where one player accidentally hit it with his hand and the other stopped playing, thinking it was an illegal hit. I got some pretty incredulous looks when I ruled the point against him

Presumably it was his racket hand - otherwise the incredulous looks would be justified.  :^)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 1:10pm
New user grave robbing a 3 year old thread to promote some obscure websites.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 7:10pm

Follow the Rule, please.


    2.10 A POINT

    2.10.1 Unless the rally is a let, a player shall score a point

    2.10.1.7 if an opponent deliberately strikes the ball twice in succession;



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jumpulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 7:32pm
Dear Jim,

Thank you for your correction. The correct word should be observe, not obey. However, I could be the authority on Non-violable, being the founder of post-science:
***

Furthermore, the wording of the rule should not be deliberately (2.10.1.6 if an opponent deliberately strikes the ball twice in succession;) because deliberately practicing double-hitting is the best way to learn prolonged contact. The tennis rule is more scientific: double-hitting is legal within one smooth stroke. I’ve post a discussion at a theoretical physics group to challenge physicists on the solution of touch or prolonged contact:
***

There are over thousands of my students in tennis and table tennis can double hit a ball and learn it within 15 to 30 minutes. The following is a video illustrate definitively double-hitting is possible:
***
where the racket moves faster than the ball.

Hugh
***
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by jumpulse jumpulse wrote:

Dear Jim,

Thank you for your correction. The correct word should be observe, not obey. However, I could be the authority on Non-violable, being the founder of post-science:
***

Furthermore, the wording of the rule should not be deliberately (2.10.1.6 if an opponent deliberately strikes the ball twice in succession;) because deliberately practicing double-hitting is the best way to learn prolonged contact. The tennis rule is more scientific: double-hitting is legal within one smooth stroke. I’ve post a discussion at a theoretical physics group to challenge physicists on the solution of touch or prolonged contact:
***

There are over thousands of my students in tennis and table tennis can double hit a ball and learn it within 15 to 30 minutes. The following is a video illustrate definitively double-hitting is possible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vSYxgbRhD8
where the racket moves faster than the ball.

Hugh
***


First warning for blatant self-promotion and trash link-posting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jumpulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 8:16pm
I received my PhD in plasma physics at MIT and did postdoctoral research at the Courant Institute of mathematical sciences for 3 years. I worked with Paul Feyerabend and Benson Mates for 8 years in the philosophy department at UC Berkeley. I wrote Table Tennis Scientific Analyses in 1978, which was bought by all major sports manufacturers (letter to prove it), predicting double-hitting by good players and The Jumpulse Stroke in 2008 which was bought by almost all the coaches of professional players after writing a post on jumpulse on tennis.com with over 10 times views than the next highest view.

Please state your qualification, Jim.

If you ban this, it will be a historical record. Please state your true identity and be responsible for your decisions. Where are my videos?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by jumpulse jumpulse wrote:

I received my PhD in plasma physics at MIT and did postdoctoral research at the Courant Institute of mathematical sciences for 3 years. I worked with Paul Feyerabend and Benson Mates for 8 years in the philosophy department at UC Berkeley. I wrote Table Tennis Scientific Analyses in 1978, which was bought by all major sports manufacturers (letter to prove it), predicting double-hitting by good players and The Jumpulse Stroke in 2008 which was bought by almost all the coaches of professional players after writing a post on jumpulse on tennis.com with over 10 times views than the next highest view.

Please state your qualification, Jim.

If you ban this, it will be a historical record. Please state your true identity and be responsible for your decisions. Where are my videos?


Regardless of your qualifications or mine, when I see absurdity I call it absurdity. But that's just me...

BTW, please let us know names of the famous coaches in table tennis who bought your book on the "jumpulse". We know quite a few of them here and we can ask them directly what they thought of it. Could be an interesting test.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jumpulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 8:45pm
Oscar Wegner, who coached Spain to beat USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wegner
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by jumpulse jumpulse wrote:

Oscar Wegner, who coached Spain to beat USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wegner


I specifically asked about table tennis coaches, not tennis coaches - I doubt there are people here on the forum who know coach Wegner and can ask him questions about your book. Top level TT coaches, now that would be a different matter - I am sure that we have plenty of forummers here with access to almost all of them (residing in the US, of course).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jumpulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:02pm
Please re-post the previous post with valuable links, even though I appreciate Jim's candid criticisms:

Dear Jim,

Thank you for your correction. The correct word should be observe, not obey. However, I could be the authority on Non-violable, being the founder of post-science:
http://www.slideshare.net/hughching/post-science-2016

Furthermore, the wording of the rule should not be deliberately (2.10.1.6 if an opponent deliberately strikes the ball twice in succession;) because deliberately practice double-hitting is the best way to learn prolonged contact. The tennis rule is more scientific: double-hitting is legal within one smooth stroke. I’ve post a discussion at a theoretical physics group to challenge physicists on the solution of touch or prolonged contact:
https://www.linkedin.com/grp/post/3091009-6055550959008886786?trk=groups-post-b-title

There are over thousands of my students in tennis and table tennis can double hit a ball and learn it within 15 to 30 minutes. The following is a video illustrate definitively double-hitting is possible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vSYxgbRhD8
where the racket moves faster than the ball.

Hugh
http://hughching.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:08pm
I watched the Del Potro backhand video on youtube - why do you say that was a double hit? It looked like clean hit, with the racquet accelerating on contact.

I am missing the concept, links are very confusing.


Edited by jrscatman - 10/03/2015 at 9:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:08pm
this must be a joke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

I watched the Del Potro backhand video on youtube - why do you say that was a double hit? It looked like clean hit, with the racquet accelerating on contact.

I am missing the concept, links are very confusing.

looks like a bunch of spamming jibberish to me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

I watched the Del Potro backhand video on youtube - why do you say that was a double hit? It looked like clean hit, with the racquet accelerating on contact.

I am missing the concept, links are very confusing.
looks like a bunch of spamming jibberish to me
Actually no, I just glanced at this link:

This explains it more clearly. 

I noticed this when watching Richard Gasquet practice. It appeared he was not hitting the ball, it's hard to describe but sort of cupping it and throwing it back - but with huge amount of speed and spin. I thought it might have been the equipment or something. 

Another time a TT friend who takes lesson from a former world ranked TT player - told me his coach told him to hold the ball on the racquet and then fling it back rather than hitting it. I didn't understand how it's done. I am thinking "jumppulse" is addressing these issues. 

Not sure it's true or not but doesn't hurt to check it out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jumpulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:27pm
Dear jrscatman,

Thank you for raising a good and subtle question: “I watched the Del Potro backhand video on youtube - why do you say that was a double hit? It looked like clean hit, with the racquet accelerating on contact.

I am missing the concept, links are very confusing.”

Double-hit is hard to see, but when the racket can move faster than the ball, it becomes a definitive prove of the possibility of prolonged contact. When the racket is accelerating during a prolonged contact, the acceleration has to slow down sometime and the ball might microscopically oscillate in and out of the ball. You can try double hit by 1. Moving your racket slowly to a standing ball (zero velocity), 2. Upon contact, swing your racket with as much acceleration as possible (you are applying a jumpulse, a sudden change of force), 3. End the swing with an extreme follow through (this is the real reason for follow through). Please report back to me, if you are successful. Thanks. Hugh

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jumpulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:37pm
My other coach friends in table tennis are:

Chung Tse-dong (3 times world champion, and my brother actually interviewed him recently)

Liang Guo-Liang (The top coach in Europe, for a while, and he received my first copy of the draft of my TT book in 1971, when he visited UN)

However, the best way to convince yourself the importance and the possibility of double-hitting is to try it and report back if you cannot do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jumpulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:48pm
I was twice the table tennis champion at MIT. When I got my championship, Lin Ming Chui was also there. He challenged me to a private duel, which was watched by all the ping pong player at MIT (150 team x 5 per team). I beat him 21-18, 21-18. Chui is a tt coach, and his son was ranked at the top, recently. The highest ranking for Lin- Min Chui was 3 in the USA beating lee Doa Jung, long age when we played, also # 8 in Hong Kong, when he was young.
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