Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Effects of sponge hardness and thickness on throw
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Effects of sponge hardness and thickness on throw

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
sweetstrike View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/30/2010
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Effects of sponge hardness and thickness on throw
    Posted: 12/15/2010 at 2:27am
I just started using a sheet of Dawei 388A-4 Navigator GT with a 2.2mm 40°(claimed) sponge. I noticed right away a higher throw angle. I really like the topsheet as it is generating a lot of spin but wouldn't mind losing some spin and speed for a lower throw.

Given the same topsheet:

Would going to a harder sponge decrease the throw due to shorter contact time?

Would going to a thinner sponge decrease the throw?

I'm looking to get another sheet of the Navigator but am not sure what to get yet.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2010 at 6:21am
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

Given the same topsheet:

Would going to a harder sponge decrease the throw due to shorter contact time?

You would likely see a greater loss in control than in throw given the shorter dwell, which in turn requires a faster swing to produce the same spin as you would with a softer sponge, and a more refined technique to maintain the same consistency.

Quote Would going to a thinner sponge decrease the throw?

Likely some decrease in throw, but expect a substantial loss in spin and speed.

In contrast, the pip structure, pattern and thickness of the topsheet play the more prominent roles in throw.  Pips longer in length with a less tight pattern would give more dwell and a higher throw since the "voids" between lines of pips when compressed would act like gutters, providing more grip or traction that grabs on to the ball before projecting it out.  Popular rubbers like Tenergy 05 and Hurricane 3 (Old) have this structure and they throw (pretty) high.  Tenergy 25 and Hurricane 2 (Old), in comparison, have thicker topsheets, wider, shorter pips and are more tightly packed, giving a lower throw.  Both manufacturers "claim" both of their products have the same sponge and the only difference is in the topsheet, so there is some truth in that.


Edited by zeio - 12/15/2010 at 6:28am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
sweetstrike View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/30/2010
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2010 at 1:52pm
It sounds like there is always a compromise where if you want the most spin generated from the rubber itself, it will also increase the throw because it is affected more by incoming spin? Before Navigator, I was using Skyline TG3 with an orange sponge. It was tacky enough with lower throw but also the sponge felt more dead.

What are some of the spinniest tacky rubber / sponge combinations that have the least amount of throw? 
Back to Top
pnachtwey View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/09/2010
Location: Vancouver, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2035
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2010 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:


What are some of the spinniest tacky rubber / sponge combinations that have the least amount of throw? 

The same force that causes throw causes spin.   You can't have one without the other.  If you are talking about the throw angle then that is also affect by the 'speed' or COR of the rubber.  The 'faster' the rubber the lower the throw angle so look for a 'fast' rubber with lots of spin.   If should be obvious that a rubber that returns the ball infinitely fast would have a throw angle of near 0 because the rise over run is low.  Basically throw angle=atan(verticle speed/horizontal speed).

Back to Top
sweetstrike View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/30/2010
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2010 at 4:13pm
I understand you can't have the best of both worlds. I'm searching for more of an optimum balance of spin, and low throw in a tacky rubber. I also want something in the 50g range uncut so a hard and fast, heavy sponge is not something I want. I've been looking through the rubber mass database:

http://mass.doingitwrong.net/

I'm looking for a FH tacky rubber that can produce a good amount of spin on serves but also has low throw so I can block and flat hit with control and still be able to create heavy topspin. Pretty much something a little more euro feel but tacky. Also it has to be less than $20.

I've tried these:

Dawei Inspirit 2.4mm - Great speed and low throw but not tacky enough for forehand, great for backhand, a little heavy and super fast

LKT Pro XP 2.2mm - Low throw but the sponge felt too mushy and would bottom out all the time on flat hits. Not tacky enough and rather slow. I don't speedglue.

Friendship Geospin 2.0mm - Very tacky and lightweight with medium/high throw on a softer sponge. Lots of spin on serves and pushes. Pretty good balance. Speed is average.

Friendship 729 Cream MRS 2.2mm - Not as much spin on serves as geospin with a slightly firmer sponge. Surprisingly low throw for being pretty tacky. I switched from this because the rubber didn't feel like it was gripping the ball enough. maybe throw was too low.

DHS Skyline TG3 2.2mm - Good spin on serves and medium throw. Best balance I've tried so far. Sponge feels a little dead but I can flat hit and loop well. Speed is good. On the heavier side.

Dawei Navigator GT 2.2mm - This is a wild rubber with high throw but it returns with a lot of spin. Good spin on serves. It is fast and spinny with a lively sponge but is hard for me to control.

I'm looking into the Hurricane 3 No. 19 sponge as a light weight tacky rubber that is firmer than LKT Pro XP and still light weight. I'm hoping the topsheet performs more like the TG3. I'm looking for more of a control rubber than an extreme spin rubber.



Viscaria FL
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Sword Scylla OX
Back to Top
icontek View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
This is FPS Doug

Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: Maine, US
Status: Offline
Points: 5196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2010 at 10:03pm
I'm going to take a blind stab and say

Hurricane 2 at 1.8mm sponge? (available at dandoy-sports)

While it won't feel euro at all, it certainly meets all of your other criteria (tacky, throw, weight, serves, spin and shot selection); paired with right blade it should be "fast enough" for most players who already are taking big swings.


US1260.RC1042 . Virtuoso AC : K1 + EL-P
Back to Top
sweetstrike View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/30/2010
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2010 at 10:40pm
Thanks for the recommendation. I definitely want to give H2 and H3 a try. I only have experience with Skyline TG3 right now and liked it a lot. Is the H2 topsheet heavier than H3? I have read that it is thicker.

I think most of the VOC dissipated from the Dawei Navigator GT currently on my blade. I played an hour today and was a lot more controllable and little slower. I'll stick with it for the time being.
Viscaria FL
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Sword Scylla OX
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.