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E-mailed USATT about Rating system issue..

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heavyspin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2020 at 11:40am
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

"In both cases, the player’s Adjusted Rating will NEVER be lower than the player’s Pre-Tournament Rating. In the event that the PASS2 adjusted rating results in a lower rating than the player's Pre-Tournament Rating, the adjustment will then revert to the PASS1 adjusted rating, which is derived solely on the basis on net ratings point gain plus the player's pre-tournament rating."

This sentence is very strange. But It does say the player will have PASS1 rating if PASS2 < original rating, in this case, OP might be right. 


For the sake of the English language, the wording in the 2nd sentence needs to change from "in a lower rating than" to "is a lower rating than"
TT idiom - Don't count your rating before the match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2020 at 11:56am
I have no idea what this means. "If a player has either, all wins, or all losses, the Adjusted Rating is derived by taking the median implied rating for all of the player’s games. The implied rating is calculated using each of the opponents’ Pre-Tournament Ratings, and the Rating Chart above."

It reads "all of the player's games" not player's matches. So each game of each match are in consideration? 
Use each opponent and the rating chart above - Suppose an opponent is 1500. So I take 1500 and the ratings chart above to calculate his implied rating. How? If the last sentence means a calculation which takes all opponents and gives a single number then what sense does it make to take a median?

TT idiom - Don't count your rating before the match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2020 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

I have no idea what this means. "If a player has either, all wins, or all losses, the Adjusted Rating is derived by taking the median implied rating for all of the player’s games. The implied rating is calculated using each of the opponents’ Pre-Tournament Ratings, and the Rating Chart above."

It reads "all of the player's games" not player's matches. So each game of each match are in consideration? 
Use each opponent and the rating chart above - Suppose an opponent is 1500. So I take 1500 and the ratings chart above to calculate his implied rating. How? If the last sentence means a calculation which takes all opponents and gives a single number then what sense does it make to take a median?


The wording is horrible and ambiguous.
There has been no change to a different rating system and therefore all of the ratings in the USATT rating page should have been calculated by the same formula. The process was clearly stated on the USATT page previously but the wording has been removed and replaced by wishy washy ambiguous wording.

Here is how the rating system is SUPPOSED to work:

UNRATED PLAYERS:
New Rating is determined between best win and worst loss.. If there is a greater than 500 point difference between best win and worst loss, manual invervention is needed to look at the scores.
In case a player has no wins or no losses, the initial rating has to be determined by looking at the players scores. May need manual invervention.

PASS 1:
Win/Loss points are added and subtracted based on the rating chart, using ONLY matches against RATED opponents and PRE-ADJUSTMENT ratings of all other opponents.

PASS 2:
For players who gain less than 50 points in pass one, their initial rating at the beginning of the tournament will be used in PASS 2.

For players who gained between 50 and 74 points in pass 1 AS ALSO PLAYERS WHO GAINED ABOVE 74 POINTS AND HAD NO LOSSES:
Pass 1 Rating becomes PASS 2 Rating (adjusted rating)

For players who gained 75 or more points in pass 1, their "adjusted" rating will be calculated based on the average of their best win, worst loss + Pass 1 rating divided by 2
Example: Best win 2500, worst loss 2300 and pass 1 rating 2250:
Average between 2500 best win and 2300 worst loss is 2400 ((2500 + 2300) / 2)
Then add the Pass 1 rating to that number and divide by 2: 2250 + 2400 = 4650 / 2 = 2325 ADJUSTED RATING.

PASS 2:
For players with less than 50 point rate gain in Pass 1, their initial rating is used for this pass and all the wins and losses are applied based on the rating chart
For players who gained between 50 and 74 points or those players who gained above 74 points with no losses is used  for pass 2 and all their matches are now applied against the ADJUSTED RATING.
For players who gained over 74 points, their adjusted rating as pointed out above will become their initial rating for Pass 2 and all matches are applied to the higher rating.

For players with adjustments, the final rating may NOT be lower than their initial rating.  That is a rare scenario but it can happen..


Edited by Pushblocker - 02/07/2020 at 12:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2020 at 11:11pm
I suggest emailing your complaint and explanation to the tournament director and have him contact Ethan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Gen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 12:30am
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

I suggest emailing your complaint and explanation to the tournament director and have him contact Ethan.

Maybe that's the best way...though it's frustrating that he didn't even respond to Pushblocker or me.

In regards to another similar experience at the 2018 US Open in Orlando, I emailed him, shortly after those ratings came out, about a match in my group between 2 other players that was played, but did not show up on the ratings page. I believe another player in our group contacted USATT as well. USATT never responded and I just gave up.

On the good interactions side with USATT, Ethan did respond promptly when I asked about signing up with a doubles partner for that US Open and I was impressed with the quick response. Also, last year, I emailed him about a player who had 2 USATT numbers (so 2 different ratings pages, as different tournaments he played were under different USATT numbers), but I knew the guy, and it was definitely the same player. I don't think anyone ever replied back to me, but that player's tournaments and USATT numbers were merged; everything was pretty good (although you couldn't really follow his rating properly, since all of his tournament ratings were not recalculated as one single player, in chronological order.)

Anyhow, apparently the calculation for all wins in Simply Compete works sometimes. Here's an example of it in a tournament a few days ago in Ohio:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 7:30am
Originally posted by Greg Gen Greg Gen wrote:

Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

I suggest emailing your complaint and explanation to the tournament director and have him contact Ethan.

Maybe that's the best way...though it's frustrating that he didn't even respond to Pushblocker or me.

In regards to another similar experience at the 2018 US Open in Orlando, I emailed him, shortly after those ratings came out, about a match in my group between 2 other players that was played, but did not show up on the ratings page. I believe another player in our group contacted USATT as well. USATT never responded and I just gave up.

On the good interactions side with USATT, Ethan did respond promptly when I asked about signing up with a doubles partner for that US Open and I was impressed with the quick response. Also, last year, I emailed him about a player who had 2 USATT numbers (so 2 different ratings pages, as different tournaments he played were under different USATT numbers), but I knew the guy, and it was definitely the same player. I don't think anyone ever replied back to me, but that player's tournaments and USATT numbers were merged; everything was pretty good (although you couldn't really follow his rating properly, since all of his tournament ratings were not recalculated as one single player, in chronological order.)

Anyhow, apparently the calculation for all wins in Simply Compete works sometimes. Here's an example of it in a tournament a few days ago in Ohio:

Greg, it worked because he gained less than 75 points.. If he would have gained 75 points or more, he would not have gotten adjusted.. It's a flaw in the code.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Gen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Greg, it worked because he gained less than 75 points.. If he would have gained 75 points or more, he would not have gotten adjusted.. It's a flaw in the code.

Oops...Yes you are correct. I can't do arithmetic most of the time >_<
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