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End of Long Pips Era? |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Online Points: 2336 |
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I think that even normal inverted players are saying the same thing....well maybe not "much harder", but simply harder.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Interesting.. I only played once with the new ABS ball at the Aurora Cup and I played well, beating a 2161 and a 2175 and not losing to anyone below my rating. I also took games of a high 2500 and a mid 2400 player, so my experience with the new ABS ball is not too bad.
Edited by Pushblocker - 03/08/2019 at 1:27pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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Do you have a video of someone using that style against a decent opponent? [/QUOTE] Sadly no... I know some people who fit that category, but I have not filmed them. It was just not beautiful enough, haha. But I'll keep it in mind and if I find something I'll direct it to you. [/QUOTE]
I would like to see that video. I suspect others would too. Please post here if you get some.
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kevo
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: ireland Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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I have tried the frictionless antis but could not get along with them. I imagine with a year's serious training, I could find one I liked and that might work better than the Dtecs OX which I always return to. However, I've found I really still like the feel of the ball striking the wood w/OX, among other things. And we generally use the xushofa ball, as do most other clubs--although the tournaments here are using the Nittaku and Stiga ABS (what a horrible ball...)--so I don't find too, too much of a difference from the old days. You get very few of those cheap n easy points as w/the old cell balls, but then again, bc the plastic/ABS ball is slower etc., I know there are FH rallies that I stay in and occasionally win, that I would not have w/the cell. So swings and roundabouts. I win fewer points off my serve these days, sure, but I also lose fewer points off my opponents' serves as well. Swings and...
And to return to the point about spending a year training up a frictionless anti rubber: rather, I've focused more on training my FH and now win, I'd say, 80% of points from play with this. (I was always more FH oriented anyway.) My footwork and FH generally have had to improve but if I want to continue playing at a certain level, FH it is... So no, LPs ain't dead, but they ain't the free ride they sometimes used to be... Incidentally, I found slow, short blocking LPs and antis relatively harmless vs good players and have opted for fast, long blocks--DTecs and my old Labyrinthos balsa carbon blade--to put pressure on w/returns and blocks to body etc. And then step around and...whack! Damn. Missed again...
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kevo
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: ireland Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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And welcome back Tommyzai! I'll look forward to buying up the windfall from your EJing once again!
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osmar92
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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It could be a difference between anti and pips in terms of abs effect. My anti almost has5ni grip, your pips have better control.
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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I have tried many antis and what makes me stay away from anti is the inconsistent trajectory when passively blocking or pushing.. Even the most frictionless anti has huge variations in trajectory on the same stroke. There may be strokes that minimize that but I don't like to adjust my stroke to the material. I like to adjust the material to my stroke, so I try many rubbers until I find one that works with my technique. Another thing that I dislike about antis is the sensitivity to heavy chop serves. Even the most frictionless antis have issues with those.. The National Team version of Talon has a consistently low trajectory.. Always the same trajectory on the same stroke.. D.Tecs is very similar to that also..
Edited by Pushblocker - 03/08/2019 at 2:07pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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I think they're more sensitive to blade angle, but still very consistent. I've tested a ton of them on my robot (for the most consistent balls to be fed at the stationary paddle) and the balls are fairly uniform, getting the expected bounce and spin reversal each time. Guessing from the outside, I'd wager your technique is so honed to the LP that that is probably your reason for having issues with them. I never really used too many long pips before swapping to anti for blocking, so for me the anti is much more stable, predictable and consistent.
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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I've been out of the game for 1000 days, so I don't have much experience with the new ball. However, all my friends on here and there who rely on pip disruption/reversal claim it's a new game, and what worked before often no longer works.
At best, due to my disability and refusal to have much strategy, I'm around a 1700 level. I rely on getting my opponent to make a mistake and pop the ball up via my BH/OX pip chop/punch/cut block so I can hit it home with my deadly FH. LOL Note: In a sense, I use three sides of the racket by virtue of a modified windshield/Seemiller grip . . . FH, BH (with FH rubber), and BH pip. So, I'm hoping to find a new setup that will help me get beyond my lowly level of play. I formerly used Grass DtecS/OX/Red. Is there anything better at this point and time?
Edited by tommyzai - 03/08/2019 at 2:33pm |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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I guess that it depends on your stroke. My game requires to block the ball off the bounce at 90 degree angle and slightly open when aggressively pushing. Those strokes do not work well with antis. You have to vary racket angle too much. The "off the bounce" game does not work well at all with anti. Anti is great if you wait for the ball to come to you where you can chop block or hit but off the bounce, you have to adjust racket angle on almost every stroke while with a good long pips rubber, you can use the almost identical racket angle except for very heavy incoming spin.
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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kindof99
Premier Member Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4227 |
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I have seen more and more people using pips recently.
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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I've oddly been running into a fair amount of players playing anti lately. None of them were at a super high level. The highest one was maybe equivalent to USATT 1900. Anti typically doesn't bother me at all. Also, how about medium pimples? One of the best pimple players at my regular club is actually a medium pimples player. He's also one of the better players at the club overall. I haven't beat him yet.
Edited by ericd937 - 03/08/2019 at 8:24pm |
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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I know two MP players who hit through everything . . . it doesn't matter what kind of spin of lack thereof . . . they smash the ball. I tried MPs, but I couldn't get used to the lack of arc . . . if I didn't catch the ball at the height of the bounce I either hit into the net or off the table long. Same has been true for my SP experiments. I'm unable to drop the ball on the table. I guess I rely on a slight top to sink down. I'm not sure about using MPs for chop blocking and such. Would they do anything special?
Edited by tommyzai - 03/08/2019 at 9:21pm |
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osmar92
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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I am mostly interesting in heavy reversals, everything else I can adjust too. Variations and inconsistency sometimes work in your favor, double edged sword.. But when reversal is not there or creates no problem for high level players. The only way to compete at high level it is reversals that prevents high level player from attacking you 2 times in a row and that creates opportunity for counter attack.
Edited by osmar92 - 03/09/2019 at 12:40pm |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Good players will keep the spin so low that even the best reversal has little effect on them. Soft, low spin opener followed up by flat kill or loop kill.. Placement is the only viable strategy against that..
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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What pips is that player using? Killer pro?
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osmar92
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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one should have good attack arsenal from both sides so if good player softens you attack. Only by pushing and blocking from backhand it wont get much. Since I twiddle and attack from both sides I need only good reversal and blocking. I do not use anti twice in a row( rarely) in rally.
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Edited by Pushblocker - 03/10/2019 at 2:09pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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osmar92
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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get well, i had injuries as well, get physical therapy
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Thanks.. Since July 2016, I'm having problems with my elbow.. Played almost a year with pain.. Only played tournaments and no practice to reduce stress to the elbow. Eventually, mid to late 2017 it improved.. was pain free from November 2017 to June 2018.. Hurt the elbow again with a backhand attack after twiddling.. Have stayed away from any backhand attacks to prevent hurting the elbow again. Right now, I don't have elbow pain but I'm sure that if I start twiddling and backhand attacking again, it will come back.. I don't think that my issue can be fixed without some type of surgery.. On and off for almost 3 years years now... :-(
Edited by Pushblocker - 03/10/2019 at 3:13pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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Eric Fountain
Super Member Joined: 12/07/2013 Location: Portland, OR Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Everything is still basically the same. The earlier Xushaofa seamless 40+ were noticably less spinny, more bouncy/direct, kind of fun for a more athletic game. We've long since settled into the Nittaku 40+ etc. era though which is pretty comparable to whatever you remember. Everything you listed lines up perfectly with something like LP -- disability, style preference of disruption into FH, Seemiller grip to prevent anyone from pinning you too hard on that side. Dtecs might still be the best if you are passive -- I never liked the slimy, vague feel, hard to place the ball for me. If you mix in more all-around play then also try Dornenglanz (original, not 2), I have been quite impressed with that. Similar style, better sense of agency, also just as well known and regarded for so long. Frictionless anti I think you lose some of the all around capabilities, that's a pretty extreme / specialized option for maximum reversal blocking against loopers but much harder than it looks to get the angle right and actually use overall. MP is mostly just more disruptive SP, best used hyper aggressively. I would just jump back into LP if I were you. Any of these options are still viable far past any rating that any of us will ever hit in our lifetimes, so just go with whatever feels right and try to have fun.
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Thanks, Eric. Much appreciated. ;-) Oddly, I just hit with a sheet of Dornenglanz II/OX and really like it. The blade it's on gives a nice wooden "clunk" like hardbat. Thanks to MYTT member Tuco for sending to me to check out. Does Dornenglanz I play much different?
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Eric Fountain
Super Member Joined: 12/07/2013 Location: Portland, OR Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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I don't know 2 to be bad (1-2 sessions so I can't really say), just that it isn't a known commodity and well regarded like say D.Tecs or DG1. That and one thing people agree on is that DG2 is a completely different rubber, might as well have been given a new name.
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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I played against DG2 and is weird and hard to cope heard that DG1 doesnt last but even that people buy it
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a23096713
Super Member Joined: 08/20/2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 250 |
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I chop with both Anti and long/medium pips.
With plastic balls, I have to change my focus on my chop completely. I used to be able to chop some really heavy underspin for people to hit the ball toward the net. It never really happens since the Plastic ball is introduced. So I have to focus on spin variation like some said. I would not say the LP era is finished. The advantage of unfamiliarity with the style is still there. It is very hard to play against someone with long/medium pip or anti, if he/she has not really encounter those play style for a long time. Other than that, just work on your own game. the Same tactic that works on old ball does not always work with plastic ball. Edited by a23096713 - 03/11/2019 at 10:30pm |
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Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop!
BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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I have decided not to change anything on my blocking style. If you block directly off the bounce, you can't easily change the spin. You'd have to wait for the ball to rise higher so that you can manipulate the spin. This gives your opponent more time.. My blocking style is so effective as I cut down on the time that the opponent has to decide on his next stroke. If I would take the ball later and manipulate the spin, I give the opponent too much time. With the plastic ball, I need to put away attackable balls and low spin opening balls. Only issue is lack of being able to attack from the backhand side. I did try to attack a couple of times from the backhand in practice today and no pain.. However, I'm pretty sure that if I'll incorporate that backhand twiddle attack with inverted back into my game, the tennis elbow will return :(
I need to create enough respect for my offense so that opponents have to open up more aggressive in order for me not to attack their opening shot. Some of the matches I lost in recent month to lower rated players were mostly due to bad choices at my part.. I thought that I could outlast the opponents by pushing back their no spin shots. I should have played more offensive.. Need to attack low spin balls with inverted.
Edited by Pushblocker - 03/12/2019 at 10:39pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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