ESN alternatives to D05, T05H

I am pleasantly surprised by the new 50 deg + ESN alternatives to D05 & T05H. I have tried:

V15 Extra generates more spin than the Tenergy. Haven't had enough playing time with T05H but it definitely produces more spin than T05. Liam Pitchford just signed with Victas and as a result switched from T05 to V15 Extra.

I've been playing with ESN hard rubbers for a while after using T05 both sides.

To be honest, none of them (Nexxus 53 or T05H) impressed me not because they are bad but because 50º both sides feels just right for me. I feel that with 53º I have to put much more energy on my strokes to get what I want. I would be ok if I was younger and well trained because now I teach more than train myself.

slevin wrote: I am pleasantly surprised by the new 50 deg + ESN alternatives to D05 & T05H. I have tried: Rasanter R50 Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 50 MX-P 50 The ones I have not tried are Omega 7 Tour, Omega 7 China, Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 52, Rhyzer R50, etc. At 42 deg point, ESN is better than Tenergy, IMHO (R42 vs T05FX). At 45-46 deg point, T05 is better than alternatives (Omega V Europe, etc). But the best quality competition is at the >50 sponge hardness level. Good to know that Butterfly has some competition. Would love to hear from others who use rubbers of similar hardness.

Edited by mischasln - 06/08/2019 at 6:41am

I think R47 is closer to T05 than R50. R50 might be similar to T05H.

Edited by kindof99 - 06/08/2019 at 8:18am

ericd937 wrote: Honestly, dont you guys think R47 sucks compared to Tenergy. It's no substitute if you ask me. Low level players might not be able to tell the difference, but over 1900 or so should be able to notice a big difference between Rasanter and Tenergy. R47 vs T05, I'd take T05 every time and I don't even like T05 all that much. R47 sucks.

notfound123 wrote: V15 Extra generates more spin than the Tenergy. Haven't had enough playing time with T05H but it definitely produces more spin than T05. Liam Pitchford just signed with Victas and as a result switched from T05 to V15 Extra.

Actually, he didn't play for several years. Upon coming back to table tennis, he started off with R47. He played it for around 4 months. He beat me in most of the matches during that time period, but I could keep it close and get a match here and there. He changed to T05, and from day 1 I didn't have a chance. 

Honestly, I tried using R47 before and I also didn't like it. You can't close the racket angle very much or the ball just drops to the ground. The sweet spot isn't that big. It shrinks quite a bit and the sponge loses its oomph after just 3 or 4 weeks. I find Baracuda to be more Dynamic and more durable than R47. I don't honestly think there are too many high level professionals who use it. Say, top 200. Are there any using R47? We do see pros using other rubbers, but R47 isn't high on the popularity list at that level. 

Edited by ericd937 - 06/08/2019 at 12:33pm

Actually, i don't even like T05 all that much. I'd rather play T80 or even T64, which are more forgiving. I also think the newer series of ESN, like Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 48, plays better than the R47 generation. I haven't played R50 or the other rubbers that hard from ESN, so I can't really say anything about that. 

Dignics is really interesting - plays hard-ish/fast, high spin, but the weight is reasonable.  If it wasn't for the price....

NextLevel wrote: AndySmith wrote: ericd937 wrote: AndySmith wrote: ericd937 wrote: Honestly, dont you guys think R47 sucks compared to Tenergy. It's no substitute if you ask me. Low level players might not be able to tell the difference, but over 1900 or so should be able to notice a big difference between Rasanter and Tenergy. R47 vs T05, I'd take T05 every time and I don't even like T05 all that much. R47 sucks.  Nope, it's great.  It's not the same of course and there are differences.  But if you think that amateur players can't play a typical topspin game at roughly the same level (after an adjustment period) with either rubber then I think you're mad. Well, one of my usual practice partners played on the Junior National team in Denmark 5 or 6 years ago. He's played with both R47 and T05 on the forehand recently. When he plays with R47, I can and have beaten him. When he plays with T05, I have no chance. I'm lucky to even get one game. That has to say something.  I think you can make it fit lots of different narratives, depending on what you're trying to push. Could be that it doesn't suit his style. Or he hasn't fully adjusted to it. Or his style with that rubber is more comfortable for you to play against, personally. I could go on. But it doesn't show some innate superiority for tenergy imo. Otherwise you wouldn't see pros using anything else, but we do.  Do realize at the pro level, what the pro is being paid does affect the equipment they use. I suspect Pitchford is an example of that but in general, people below the top 10 don't get paid much by Butterfly because Butterfly knows it has already got a large market share and those guys barely  contribute to it. So many pros use other stuff because some of the other companies will pay them more than Butterfly does to use their stuff. It is a difficult conversation sometimes for the pros who need more money from their equipment deal but want to use Tenergy (where they will get the rubbers but no real cash for using it). If they signed with someone else, they would get more money and marketing than they do with Butterfly.  So they make a switch.  Not saying this is true in every case, but it is something to think about when you think that because a pro is using something, it implies it is what they chose to use. Sometimes they chose it because they are paid better to use it than they would if they used Tenergy and that is the most important thing for them.

I understand that using Pros as any kind of relative measure is highly problematic.  What I would point out is that I see a lot of amateurs use Butterfly as a special case because of their volume of use at Pro level, and I think that's flawed for all sorts of reasons.  I also see a lot of people use highly suspect, one-sided arguments against other manufacturers when looking at the Pro level, and I think that's simply unfair.

I use R47 on my FH. I do rotate between a number of blades. I have not had a sheet "go bad" on my yet over 6 months. I also have not noticed a difference between older sheets and new ones applied to other blades. Durability has been excellent. 

NextLevel wrote: I personally agree that blind usage of Tenergy is not necessary but I also think it isn't unreasonable for someone to try to copy what a pro uses as their baseline.  I think following the experts is a necessary Consequence Of division Of labor.  But if you ask me, I will say that Tenergy is not necessary but if you think u can use it go for it. But I would not recommend it to an adult learner given my experiences.  But it has more to do with passive game than active game and whether I would really feel happier playing $100  for a rubber when I can get 4 for $120.