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1 ply Hinoki Blades

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    Posted: 03/19/2008 at 4:25pm
Hi guys!
I was thinking about buying Tibhar H-1-9, but I'm not quite sure about the wood quality, and also got confused when I read its description: "... making this a very fast and hard offensive blade", as I knew that 1 ply hinoki blades are quite soft.
As an alternative I thought of the following ones: Darker Hinoki Shake Speed 90 , Darker Hinoki Tanpan, Juic Kiso Hinoki Shake, and recently read that Butterfly is also going to produce 1 ply hinoki Senkoh shakehands.
So which one of them do you think is the best choice?

P.S. I also want the blade not to be as fast as Carbon off+ blades,and not too heavy.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2008 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by redbull redbull wrote:

Hi guys!
I was thinking about buying Tibhar H-1-9, but I'm not quite sure about the wood quality, and also got confused when I read its description: "... making this a very fast and hard offensive blade", as I knew that 1 ply hinoki blades are quite soft.
As an alternative I thought of the following ones: Darker Hinoki Shake Speed 90 , Darker Hinoki Tanpan, Juic Kiso Hinoki Shake, and recently read that Butterfly is also going to produce 1 ply hinoki Senkoh shakehands.
So which one of them do you think is the best choice?

P.S. I also don't want the blade to be as fast as Carbon off+ blades.

Thanks.


I play with Custom 1-ply Hinoki and it is indeed very soft. But - and this is the joy of 1-ply Hinoki - when you hit, then due to their thickness (9-10 mm) and ony-ply-ness, they hit hard. So they manage to have soft gentle touch, which is great in the short game, but they can provide you with power and stiffness when you need it (just apply it properly).

If you don;t want very fast and stiff blade, go with Darker Tanpan, it's not as stiff-fast as Speed 90, and Darker's craftsmanship is second to none. I am actually trying out my friend's Tanpan right now, and I will post some impressions.

Cannot say anything much about Tibhar's blade. Juic's blade is a bit thinner than the others, and cheaper too. I am sure you can find more - just search for 1-ply or one-ply Hinoki (one of the threads is mine - about this Custom blade that I bough from http://www.americanhinoki.com)
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H-1-9 definitely not hard.  I used to give a review of it, so I will just gonna post it here for you again.
 

-It is faster than Amultart, clearly noticable. (faster than all my composite blade that I own, photino, KC, ishlion, KLHS, etc)

-It's very soft and very springy, with clearly noticable vibration when hit off center (compared to Speed 90)

-High dwell time, medium high throw angle

-The only blade I have tried that's faster is only Speed90 (the difference is Speed 90 has "very solid soft" feeling, a lot less vibration.

-IMO

    -block, loops, drive, lob -> great

    -smash -> ok

     -chop, push -> not as easy as other (might be due to the springy-ness and vibration)

It's my favorite blade as of now.

BTW, my handle is FL, bigger than normal BTY standard size, very comfortable, weight 90 grams, got from Paddle palace.

 
I strongly believe that H-1-9 is POC without any condensation process, while Speed 90 is Kiso hinoki (darker color and tighter grain contribute to more solid and speed, less vibration)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2008 at 6:38pm
Darker is definitely Kiso Hinoki, no doubt about it, the quality of grain there is very high and they charge a lot for it.

I am not sure that Tibhar's blade is Port Orford Cedar... I think someone commented on OOAK forum that it was some other wood of cypress/cedar family.

Wingman, are you saying that short game with Speed 90 was better?

and what did you do with it? have you sold it already? or it wasn't yours?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2008 at 7:35pm
My friend has two h1-9s. Both weigh about 98g. They are fast but still have a soft touch. He special ordered the lightest they had, 72g. It was not the same. Would have been All at best. Defenders blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wingman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2008 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Darker is definitely Kiso Hinoki, no doubt about it, the quality of grain there is very high and they charge a lot for it.

I am not sure that Tibhar's blade is Port Orford Cedar... I think someone commented on OOAK forum that it was some other wood of cypress/cedar family.

Wingman, are you saying that short game with Speed 90 was better?

and what did you do with it? have you sold it already? or it wasn't yours?
 
 
I used my friend's Speed 90 for a few games.  Those comments about speed 90 are from immediate feelings.  I don't like the H-1-9 in short game much because even lightly touch, vibration still there for off the center, so I would think that speed 90 is better for short game if pair up with soft rubber with not too much speed. 
 
I will get the Speed 90 shakehand by next week from Taiwan (cheaper than iruru given the current exchange rate).  I am still thinking about the rubber for it.  For BH I consider 2.0 F3 Big slam, nimbus sound/soft or Plama W (still not sure) and FH either max 380, nimbus sound/soft, almana sound syn tech or nittaku narucross EX soft.  I would be able to better compare both by the end of next week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alindo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 12:49am
Hi Wingman,
I am considering also the Darker Speed90 but I couldn't find any other place to get it from but only Iruiru. Where is Taiwan are you getting it from? Do you have contact info you can share? How different is the price?
Thanks,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wingman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 2:49am
Originally posted by alindo alindo wrote:

Hi Wingman,
I am considering also the Darker Speed90 but I couldn't find any other place to get it from but only Iruiru. Where is Taiwan are you getting it from? Do you have contact info you can share? How different is the price?
Thanks,
 
I got it from,
couple weeks ago, the exchange rate was $1=NT33, I asked one of my friends to walk into this store in Taipei and bring couple blades back to the U.S. for me.  My friend just got here couple days ago, so I didn't pay yet, but I expect to pay about $120, anyhow is less than iruru that I have to pay for big shipping (14,400 yen+shipping).
 
I also asked my friend to get the BTY Cypress shake pro, but this shop doesn't carry it anymore.  Because of the recent increase in hinoki price and overall price level, I believe that Cypress shake pro would have a higher wood quality than the new 3 bty shake blades which Jasupo say it would be around 4,700 which iruru probably sells it for a little less.  I think it would come out April, 21.  I have read somewhere that Cypress shake pro has lower wood quality than Darker Tanpan, so I wouldn't assume that the new bty quality would be even comparable to the Tanpan.  But since the price is attractive, I might try to get it later somehow.  EJ in me never dies....Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 10:42am
Haven't played with Tanpan yet but I have it in my bag. Anyway, I will be eagerly expecting your impressions on Speed 90.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redbull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 1:09pm
I'm quite astonished, wingman, because someone was saying that 1 ply hinoki blades are definetely slower than composite blades . I'll be waiting for the comparison between Speed 90 and H-1-9.
Blade: Donic Waldner Dicon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by redbull redbull wrote:

I'm quite astonished, wingman, because someone was saying that 1 ply hinoki blades are definetely slower than composite blades . I'll be waiting for the comparison between Speed 90 and H-1-9.


If 1-ply is thick enough (and it should be) and made of a high quality dense wood like Kiso then it should quite fast and stiff too - Speed 90, actually is called Speed because it is very fast, but at the same time has soft touch in the short game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seasterl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 1:52pm
Check out the one-ply blades at http://www.americanhinoki.com/.  He's got several different wood types now to match almost any preference of hardness, speed, and weight, not to mention he uses a cork handle that can be custom-shaped (sanded) to nearly any size or shape.  I've used a half-dozen of them now and now considering selling off my last two SC blades.  (However, I'm keeping them now only for the sake of comparison during testing.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by seasterl seasterl wrote:

..........I've used a half-dozen of them now and now considering selling off my last two SC blades.  (However, I'm keeping them now only for the sake of comparison during testing.)
half a dozen wuaaahhht? selling them cheap?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wingman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by redbull redbull wrote:

I'm quite astonished, wingman, because someone was saying that 1 ply hinoki blades are definetely slower than composite blades . I'll be waiting for the comparison between Speed 90 and H-1-9.
 
I can clearly see the difference in their speed during my lob practice.  Hinoki blades can catapult the ball back without much effort.  It's really springy.  This is one of the reason why I am moving to hinoki from composite recently.
 
But don't get me wrong about it's speed.  I am just saying that my H-1-9 is faster than all composite I have, which is only Amultart, Photio, KC, Ishlion and KLHS.  And that Speed 90 is faster than H-1-9.  I never tried any other blade which rated faster than Amultart like SC, Tricarbon or any of other brand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seasterl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

Originally posted by seasterl seasterl wrote:

..........I've used a half-dozen of them now and now considering selling off my last two SC blades.  (However, I'm keeping them now only for the sake of comparison during testing.)
half a dozen wuaaahhht? selling them cheap?
 
Half-dozen different one-ply blade materials.  Like Wingman, I feel like permanently moving to the one-ply blades now (and changing my avatar). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wingman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by seasterl seasterl wrote:

Check out the one-ply blades at http://www.americanhinoki.com/.  He's got several different wood types now to match almost any preference of hardness, speed, and weight, not to mention he uses a cork handle that can be custom-shaped (sanded) to nearly any size or shape.  I've used a half-dozen of them now and now considering selling off my last two SC blades.  (However, I'm keeping them now only for the sake of comparison during testing.)
 
OMG, you gonna let the last two SC go?  I guess your transition will be for good.  I haven't active on selling my composite blades at all and I haven't active on using my RH lately, now I am using absom salt with hot water to speed things up, it's really help.  I will trying using it slowly next week.
 
Recently I found myself really enjoy using RPB for my LH and experimenting with different setups.  if I like the Speed 90 shake, I might wanna get Jspeed 90 reverse... ie ie....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by seasterl seasterl wrote:

Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

Originally posted by seasterl seasterl wrote:

..........I've used a half-dozen of them now and now considering selling off my last two SC blades.  (However, I'm keeping them now only for the sake of comparison during testing.)
half a dozen wuaaahhht? selling them cheap?
 
Half-dozen different one-ply blade materials.  Like Wingman, I feel like permanently moving to the one-ply blades now (and changing my avatar). 


Which ones did you try except for your original Am.White blade? Any major differences? impressions?

I love my AW-8 but maybe I should get another one just a tad stiffer and faster with a few grams extra weight, 87-88 gg perhaps. I guess I should start selling my Xiom Strad and Galaxy T-4 to get the money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seasterl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Which ones did you try except for your original Am.White blade? Any major differences? impressions?

I love my AW-8 but maybe I should get another one just a tad stiffer and faster with a few grams extra weight, 87-88 gg perhaps. I guess I should start selling my Xiom Strad and Galaxy T-4 to get the money.
 
I've tried the western red, sitka, atlantic white, basswood, and northern white, as well at the corkenstein, which is a three-ply and soon to come in two variations.  All are beautiful blades and each one actually feels better than any BTY blades I've ever owned and used.  He has a blade to match pretty much any speed rating or style, and feel (hard vs. soft).  If you want a hard, fast blade that is more powerful than a Schlager Carbon, then the western red is the blade.  I think it weighs in the high-80s and up for shakehand.  Actually, it's more of a medium feel as it has no harshness found in many carbon blades.  The power is immense, though, as I've done some A-B-A-B comparisons with my SC using the same rubbers and the SC couldn't hold a candle to it in power.  For me, though, I am surprised to find myself playing better with one of his slower blades called the corkenstein.  The corkenstein has incredible feel (as do all of them), but the throw angle is higher and it's great for slow looping.  Granted, it's not as fast as the one-plies, but a truly awesome blade.  I think he also has a purely defensive model of the corkenstein, too, that is a little thinner with an oversided head available for the choppers.  Only after using all these blades for hours one end and then going back to my SC do I not care to use it much anymore.  (and to think that I found it...the SC.. to be the best of all the BTY composites out there,... and it really is a great blade.)  My favorites so far with the Am. Hinoki brand are the northern white and corkenstein, but I'd put the atlantic white first if it's 10mm thick and light.  Otherwise, if thinner and denser, it takes on a medium feel and more speed with a slightly lower throw.  I can see that the big manufacturers don't mess with some of these woods because they can be very hard to source.  But when you're a small company and do custom work for first-come/first-served customers, you can be more flexible.  I've been blown away by the customer service and quality of work, and the fact that the designer and builder is also a player that listens to the customer's input.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 4:03pm

i got me 1 ply hinoki blade by juic.it may be just me,but this blade is just as great as my other blade speed 90.juic has a flared handle and weights 89 gr.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 4:20pm
This is prety exciting... maybe I'll get an AH-Red blade later but so far I just thought about possibly adding some more thickness to AW. We'll see. Another player was really excited about AW-8 and even thinks about buying it off me but I am holding onto it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seasterl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

This is prety exciting... maybe I'll get an AH-Red blade later but so far I just thought about possibly adding some more thickness to AW. We'll see. Another player was really excited about AW-8 and even thinks about buying it off me but I am holding onto it!
 
Which blade is the AW-8?  If it's the wood I'm thinking of (northern white), then it's very hard to find wood.  I'd hold on to it unless you just don't like it.  (Life's too short to hold on to blades we don't like, right?LOL)  If you want to make a change to go faster, slower, heavier, thinner, etc., you have a benchmark already in his line-up of blades.  BTW, I read one of your other threads about the handle.  How did you hit the handle on the table?  Is it routine for you during flipping to contact the table with the handle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wingman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by holda holda wrote:

i got me 1 ply hinoki blade by juic.it may be just me,but this blade is just as great as my other blade speed 90.juic has a flared handle and weights 89 gr.

 
Holda,
I think your PM box is full or sth, my message didn't go through. 
Thanks,
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by seasterl seasterl wrote:

Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

This is prety exciting... maybe I'll get an AH-Red blade later but so far I just thought about possibly adding some more thickness to AW. We'll see. Another player was really excited about AW-8 and even thinks about buying it off me but I am holding onto it!
 
Which blade is the AW-8?  If it's the wood I'm thinking of (northern white), then it's very hard to find wood.  I'd hold on to it unless you just don't like it.  (Life's too short to hold on to blades we don't like, right?LOL)  If you want to make a change to go faster, slower, heavier, thinner, etc., you have a benchmark already in his line-up of blades.  BTW, I read one of your other threads about the handle.  How did you hit the handle on the table?  Is it routine for you during flipping to contact the table with the handle?


No, it's Atlantic White. I am holding on to it for sure unless I get something which will blow my mind...

I hit the bottom of the handle - it happened a couple of times when I did an open hand (FH) slice over the table. Since the bottom of the handle hangs a bit lower than my palm, it hit the surface... not very hard but it was enough. I have fixed it, though, so no worries...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by holda holda wrote:

i got me 1 ply hinoki blade by juic.it may be just me,but this blade is just as great as my other blade speed 90.juic has a flared handle and weights 89 gr.



Let's see some reviews/impressions here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by holda holda wrote:

i got me 1 ply hinoki blade by juic.it may be just me,but this blade is just as great as my other blade speed 90.juic has a flared handle and weights 89 gr.


Let's see some reviews/impressions here!
sure.i just got to hit with it for a few minutes-like 45 up to an hour.the blade is nicely made,feels very solid(not hard at all) and a springy.the blade was bought from paddlepalace as they had these listed for less that iruiru.com did.the blade was selected at 89 gr and came with a flared handle.i can not say that the blade uderperforms in any way compared to my speed 90 made by darker.
speed 90( it is just my feeling) seems to be a bit harder and may need a little softer rubbers to be more controllable.juic's blade is slighter thinner and so may be slighter harder rubbers would work better .
i will say that i am not going to composite blades for sure ,because hinoki is great for just about anything.i would imagine that somebody more experienced in tt should give this blade more detailed description.i personally think you guys can try one of these and you will feel more confident as soon as you strat playing.my us rating is low athis point(1500) so that you know i am not an expert,but after trying several blades over the past 4-5 years there is nothing like hinoki .spin is easier to generate,blocks,smashes are just pure pleasure.as far as prices go,paddlepalace has these for 72$.shipping fee is waived.
give me some time,i will put the speed 90 and juic blades up for you to see as it is the only place where we can get all the details(except for the lucky guys who have regular tt shops in town)
forgot...
for those who do not like "heady heavy" set-ups this is one the blades to choose.as far as spped of this blade-it is not slow at all.it is rated as offensive blade ,but you can slow it down with whatever rubbers you want.i think it is a great buy
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dalamchops View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dalamchops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2008 at 6:25pm
i used to think hinoki was so great for everything, but then i just realize it's all about perfecting technique and you can use everything
Stiga Titanium 5.4 Cpen
Andro Hexer Pips 2.1
Donic Acuda S2 Max
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