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National Coach Li Xiao Dong: Lecture Note

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zuoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2009 at 10:14pm
*bookmark for later reading.

good theory.. now to put in in practice. keke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zwu168 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2009 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by usagi usagi wrote:

我再介绍一下接弧圈球的诀窍,也跟击球时间有关,分三个部分:?第一,对方如果拉得比较转,防守的击球点要和球网一般高;如果我想发力回击,就在一个半网高或再高一点的位置击球;如果对方的球过了两个球网的高度,那它的旋转就全出来了,王励勤也难压住,只能直接打。?第二,控制球的弧线,不能完全靠压板。有的人接弧圈球的板形压成了180度,蹭到薄皮算好的,剩下的不是拉漏了,就是打到板边了。其实我们不用压这么狠,要把弧线控制好,一是靠击球时间,二是靠身体和手的用力方向,也就是重心帮助手往下压。身体重心的作用有好几个:稳定上下肢;帮助发力;帮助调节手型。光靠手有时控制不了弧线,而重心对控制弧线长短、高低的作用特别大。?第三,反手接弧圈球的时候,要学会往下横向发力(以右手握拍为例)。现在好多人教球时经常说反手动作应该往前,但动作太往前就容易往上,往上就容易出界。其实这样说并不准确,接弧圈球的时候,反手其实是往右用力,这样反手接弧圈球,反拉反弹就容易得多。?(本文发表在<乒乓世界>第二期上,是李晓东教练在国二队的讲课稿)??
 
I dun quite understand the last part, particularly the bit about the stroke being downwards (?) and sideways...
the last part is saying that most coaches say BH loop power should be directed forward. He is saying that it is actually suppose to be directed to the right ( if youre righty) in order to effectively counter loop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2009 at 1:02am
Originally posted by zwu168 zwu168 wrote:

Originally posted by usagi usagi wrote:

我再介绍一下接弧圈球的诀窍,也跟击球时间有关,分三个部分:?第一,对方如果拉得比较转,防守的击球点要和球网一般高;如果我想发力回击,就在一个半网高或再高一点的位置击球;如果对方的球过了两个球网的高度,那它的旋转就全出来了,王励勤也难压住,只能直接打。?第二,控制球的弧线,不能完全靠压板。有的人接弧圈球的板形压成了180度,蹭到薄皮算好的,剩下的不是拉漏了,就是打到板边了。其实我们不用压这么狠,要把弧线控制好,一是靠击球时间,二是靠身体和手的用力方向,也就是重心帮助手往下压。身体重心的作用有好几个:稳定上下肢;帮助发力;帮助调节手型。光靠手有时控制不了弧线,而重心对控制弧线长短、高低的作用特别大。?第三,反手接弧圈球的时候,要学会往下横向发力(以右手握拍为例)。现在好多人教球时经常说反手动作应该往前,但动作太往前就容易往上,往上就容易出界。其实这样说并不准确,接弧圈球的时候,反手其实是往右用力,这样反手接弧圈球,反拉反弹就容易得多。?(本文发表在<乒乓世界>第二期上,是李晓东教练在国二队的讲课稿)??
 
I dun quite understand the last part, particularly the bit about the stroke being downwards (?) and sideways...
the last part is saying that most coaches say BH loop power should be directed forward. He is saying that it is actually suppose to be directed to the right ( if youre righty) in order to effectively counter loop


Thats what someone told me when I was practicing with them and it helped a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2009 at 11:20pm

Any full translations of this article?  It's a goldmine of information.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anton6622 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2009 at 7:49am
20091215_074842_table_tennis1.doc

here is the translation of the lecture note of li xiao dong. Am not sure if it is complete. hoped i helped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote preet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2009 at 7:04am
Welcome to the Coaching Corner. This is a place for coaches and team leaders to share ideas for signs, awards, gifts, pep rallies, motivation, team building, homecoming themes, poems, and other resources. I see lots of coaches ask for these types of things, so please share your best ideas here. By sharing your best ideas, the spirit community as a whole benefits. Thanks so much for your awesome input! Thanks also to the  soutien scolaire for granting us permission to reprint exerpts from top cheer coaches around the world to get you started! We hope you find the information or connection that you need.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2009 at 3:08pm
Wow awesome translation Anton! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2010 at 3:32pm
Apparently for the ETTU coaching conference 20-22 November 2009 Liao Xiao Dong was a special guest speaker and gave a presentation about player development and compared and contrasted European and Asian styles.
 
Here's a link to a pdf of his presentation Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2010 at 3:37pm
Sweet Thx Bmonkey!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2010 at 1:33am
kenneyy88, in case you haven't found the translation to the excerpt you posted...

I'll discuss the keys to receiving loops and timing the contact. There are 3 parts:
  1. If the incoming spin is high, the contact point should be level with the top of the net. If returning with force [as opposed to just blocking], the contact point should be 1.5 times the height of the net or higher. If the incoming ball is at twice the height of the net, then the incoming spin will have been fully developed and not even WLQ will be able to control it; one can only hit the ball directly.
  2. It takes more than closing the paddle face to control the trajectory of the shot. Some people close the paddle face to as much as 180 degrees. Of those, few manage to brush the ball, the rest either whiff the ball or hit it on the edge of the paddle. We don't need to close the paddle to such an extreme degree. In order to control the trajectory of the ball, one must properly time the contact and direct the force exerted by one's body and arm, in other words, using one's center of gravity to assist the hand in pushing downwards [keeping the ball down]. The center of gravity serves several functions: stabilizing the upper and lower limbs, leveraging force generation, and helping to adjust the configuration[position] of the hand/arm. There are times when using the hand/arm alone is insufficient to control the trajectory of the ball. That is when using the body's center of mass to control the length and height of the ball's trajectory become especially effective.
  3. When receiving loops on the backhand side, one must learn to exert force downwards and horizontally (for right-handed players). Many today teach the backhand motion as a predominantly forward swing, but if the swing is too forward, it also has a tendency to go upwards, hitting the ball out. This is, in fact, incorrect. The backhand swing should be to the right. This in turn makes it easier to counter-loop or block.
So, the references to "sideways" or "horizontally" all mean swinging to the right on the backhand (for right-handers), as in when straightening or unbending the elbow. This motion is actually what makes hitting backhands on a diagonal more natural than hitting down-the-line. I can only speculate that the "downwards" component is to keep the ball down, though I have not seen anyone swing downwards when counter-looping. Perhaps he means lowering the center of gravity or getting the center of gravity on top of the ball, sort of leaning down on the ball?



Edited by racquetsforsale - 10/11/2010 at 1:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheRobot99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 3:04pm
I think downwards refers to the racket angle when reading in context. It makes sense though. If you try to attack a shot with the backhand with the face completely open, you generate a lot of speed, but you may not get much spin to arc the ball downward to the table. Directing it sideways also helps if they do return your backhand shot to your forehand, it's partially open already and all you have to do is swing (correctly of course Wink).

Edited by TheRobot99 - 12/05/2010 at 3:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by anton6622 anton6622 wrote:

20091215_074842_table_tennis1.doc

here is the translation of the lecture note of li xiao dong. Am not sure if it is complete. hoped i helped.


thx, if you're still here..

enjoyed reading this:

'People tend to think that a player who has no forte can never be successful. But then look at Kong Linghui. He has merely average power and spin. His killer shots are less than spectacular. However he has speed -- speed in connecting his shots. In hindsight, that is the secret of his success. The transitions are always fast and ahead of his opponents. In fact, he is a vanguard of the concept of winning with speed transitions.'


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sigma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

Apparently for the ETTU coaching conference 20-22 November 2009 Liao Xiao Dong was a special guest speaker and gave a presentation about player development and compared and contrasted European and Asian styles.
 
Here's a link to a pdf of his presentation Smile
 
Here is the pdf version of the paper:
 


Edited by Sigma - 12/05/2010 at 10:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2010 at 1:15am
Originally posted by Sigma Sigma wrote:

Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

Apparently for the ETTU coaching conference 20-22 November 2009 Liao Xiao Dong was a special guest speaker and gave a presentation about player development and compared and contrasted European and Asian styles.
 
Here's a link to a pdf of his presentation Smile
 
Here is the pdf version of the paper:
 


hmm page 14 of the paper and slide 83 of the presentation seem to say that if you want to kill backspin shot or over the table ball, your racket angle should really be open (like slightly facing up at the ceiling). Always thought it was perpendicular or slightly more closed then perpendicular.

He seems to want to stay away from closing over the ball too much, saying you could lose power.

Next time I play, my racket is going to be so open ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2010 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by zwu168 zwu168 wrote:

Originally posted by usagi usagi wrote:

我再介绍一下接弧圈球的诀窍,也跟击球时间有关,分三个部分:?第一,对方如果拉得比较转,防守的击球点要和球网一般高;如果我想发力回击,就在一个半网高或再高一点的位置击球;如果对方的球过了两个球网的高度,那它的旋转就全出来了,王励勤也难压住,只能直接打。?第二,控制球的弧线,不能完全靠压板。有的人接弧圈球的板形压成了180度,蹭到薄皮算好的,剩下的不是拉漏了,就是打到板边了。其实我们不用压这么狠,要把弧线控制好,一是靠击球时间,二是靠身体和手的用力方向,也就是重心帮助手往下压。身体重心的作用有好几个:稳定上下肢;帮助发力;帮助调节手型。光靠手有时控制不了弧线,而重心对控制弧线长短、高低的作用特别大。?第三,反手接弧圈球的时候,要学会往下横向发力(以右手握拍为例)。现在好多人教球时经常说反手动作应该往前,但动作太往前就容易往上,往上就容易出界。其实这样说并不准确,接弧圈球的时候,反手其实是往右用力,这样反手接弧圈球,反拉反弹就容易得多。?(本文发表在<乒乓世界>第二期上,是李晓东教练在国二队的讲课稿)??
 
I dun quite understand the last part, particularly the bit about the stroke being downwards (?) and sideways...
the last part is saying that most coaches say BH loop power should be directed forward. He is saying that it is actually suppose to be directed to the right ( if youre righty) in order to effectively counter loop


I believe Li is saying on the backhand loop it is necessary to direct a "brushing" stroke with the the power originating at the right. closer to your body.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Congoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2011 at 12:08am
Let me give you a summary of it....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Congoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2011 at 6:24pm
National coach Lixao dong talking about the 5 parts on returns

Reasons for returns (1/2)

five parts: determing(judging the ball), position, timing, distance and controlling

Intro from Li: My coach has told me this before, like published in "PingPong world", had better understanding after the years. Our topics are the same, but a bit differnet content. These are the basic of pingpong. I am hoping this could discover new potential in you, adding more knowledge, don't just use your senses to play, but use understanding.

Quote: "Can't return the ball even if stand on a stool if you can't determine (the ball)"

Determing:
It's part biological. When we clearly determine the direction, spin and placement, these signals will travel from eyes to brain. Once the brain receive a clear signal, it can direct your body. The stronger, clearer the single, the better. Pro players use relfex to determine on a majority basis, these kind of determinations are realtively accurate, also easy to relax.  If the determination to body movment is accurate, it's easier to relax. If the determining signal is vague, the direction from brain to body is also vague, then it's easy to panic and get tense. (so) people joke when receiving a loop saying, when you see the opponent has a spinny loop, then you start tense your shoulders, position your elbows and then stand on your toes (to cover the ball), right then, you wont' return the ball even if you stand on a stool and cover the ball, you still won't return it. It's all about judging (determine the ball). Two kinds of determining(deciding/judging), one is predicting (pre-determine), the other is eyes on the ball. predicting (pre-determine) is your ball (returning/serveing), with quality placement and trajectory, and opponent's returning habit, making a judgment. This way the ball coming back is in your "service" area, next play will be easier as you already imagined. But if your ball (returning/serving) is "meaty" and "sucky", then your opponent can return anyway he wants, your pre-planned combo wont' work. Using a japanese penhold player, who played in world single champs, he's play is odd, not very strong, but (he can do) forehand up-step and then side-step. I was perplexed, thinking this footwork is way too fast. Then I realized, he's got good play direction (straight line return) [sorry, for those who doesn't know chinese or know chinese way of play or coach, this one is hard to explain:D] When he plays counter-attacks, a quick backhand straigh-line, fast and straight, opponent has a hard time returning a straingt, then a carry straight play, opponent can only do a diagnoal return, after two plays, he can close his eyes and do a side-step return. His directions are clear so he can clearly determine. predicting (pre-determine) needs some patterns. If I put a lot of spin on my serve, then opponent can't flip, then I can get ready to do a flip (if it's short) or loop (if it's long). If I do a side-top spin, opponent can't do a drive-flip (explosive flip), can only do a light flip, then I can get ready to do a heavy topspin loop. Also after a serve, opponent comes back with a long ball, if I still stand at my "short-ball return" position, then it's clear I didn't determine(judge) the ball right. predicting(Pre-determine) is the QC for returns, having quality will form a good strategic combo, it may even give your own playing style.
Now talking about eyes on the ball. It's just as it sounds, have your eyes on the ball when your opponent hit the ball, the instance the ball is in contact with the balde. We also have problems on "eyes on the ball" here (in pro teams). Like when looking at the entire movement, either fake movement trick the eye or "eat" the ball when returning [meaning reutrn the ball out of bound or in to the net]. some poeple are lazy when playing, don't want to look at the ball, want to use your habit to play the placement and directions, and if you ask them to keep an eye on the ball, he ends up playing slower, after all it's about making a habit on keeping an eye on the ball. In the beginning it may be slow to move, but after a few months it won't be anymore. The way to keep an eye on the ball is mostly the instant the ball touches the paddle, keep an eye on the direction of the force, spin and speed. Using eyes on the ball for an example, first gotta look at the position ball is hit. Using high-toss as an example, previous beijing and zhejiang matches, a player from zhejiang, he uses high toss, and his high-toss is really really high. When he tosses, all eyes are on his ball, from going up to coming down, and the moment of contact is as if it was very sudden, never really got a good look of what spin it was. So then I wonders, even if he throws it that high, the position he hits the ball is still the same, no need to follow the ball all the way, just look at the moment of contact. After doign this, the result is immediate. This is why you ened to look at the moment of contact. Then you need to look at the level of the paddle. For example, serving a dead ball, the paddle has to standup a bit, serving a backspin, the paddle has to lay flat. Also it's to look at opponent's direction of force, the moement of contact, in which direction he use force. Side is side-spin, btottom, is backspin. Somepeople serve backspin with a forward and backward motion, the first motioin maybe a fake, or the second maybe a fake. Then you really need to look at the moment of contact. Next is look at the speed. The ball with spin is faster and digs in; dead ball is slower because of more air resistence, obviously slower, and the ball floats. Then again, top players can serve a dead ball looking like a spinny ball using the same moment, these kind of serve are really hidden and hard to tell.

stops [高手练发转不转可以把不转球和转球的手法十分相似,这样发球的隐蔽性就比较大,在判断上也不容易。 ?]

damn..this is a lot of work...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cls2222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2011 at 1:30pm
Thanks a lot Congoman. This is the best translation so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quocvinh727 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/16/2011 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

Apparently for the ETTU coaching conference 20-22 November 2009 Liao Xiao Dong was a special guest speaker and gave a presentation about player development and compared and contrasted European and Asian styles.
 
Here's a link to a pdf of his presentation Smile
 
on page 83; how could one loop with a paddle angle open like it?  so you eventually contact the ball at 4' o'clock?
 
that doesn't sound right.  did i miss something?
 
help!!!!!!!!!!!
 
thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quocvinh727 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/16/2011 at 9:31pm
thanks congoman! that's fantastic and fascinating.  better then having s*x!!!!!
 
more please!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harmonicon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2014 at 12:26pm
My full translation here: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65080
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