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battered image of ittf and olympic table tennis

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manluski View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/29/2008 at 4:55pm
hi everyone:
 
i am starting this new post as a result of the shattered image of table tennis in the olympics and iternational competition.
 
what can be done to repair and clean up  this image ? is table tennis only for the china and chinese players? is tt now a mercenary sport, highest recruiter for player or richest nations win matches by cheating?
 
i welcome intelligent suggestions and opinions.
 
firstly, i think the new laws are not sufficient. ittf should demand that players representing any country should be developed by the country they represent and this should be retrodated immediately.
 
countries such as singapore, usa, canada,spain, france, australia, austria, dominica, turkey, japan and the list goes on, should be informed immediately that they can no longer use player who have not been developed by their tt association and will not be allowed to play in any of their international competition.
 
if these measures are not taken immediately tt will go to the drain. and the results will always be one sided in favor of the chinese. what a boor.
 
the picture and image to tt will change if these measures are implemented.
 
standards are falling. look at schager before bringing in weixing into their national team he was ranked below 10 and was improving and playing good tt. look at him now even weixing is ranked higher than him and playing better than him.
 
soon we shall see sweeden importing chinese players. what a boor.
 
thanks in advance for your contributions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2008 at 5:44pm
The chinese will be beaten by countries using the same methods: early detection of talent, adapted education to share kids' time between practice & studies, commitment to excellence.
 
The only thing I hope for the kids who will be taken on that road is that they will know to do something else than playing TT when they are 20 yo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2008 at 5:54pm
The new rules should be sufficient.

How would banning all "imports" reduce the Chinese domination? It's the opposite.

As for Schlager, he's still ranked higher than Chen Weixing (16 vs. 31), and his  slightdrop has nothing to do with Chen's presence on the national team. On the contrary, having practiced much against Chen allowed him to beat Joo rather easily at the 2003 Worlds. In many countries, the ex-Chinese have helped raise the level. It's absurd to say that standards are falling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkillashark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2008 at 8:43pm
Chen was top 10 for a while before he got injured.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2008 at 9:19pm
And Schlager was top 10 before HE got injured (serious toe injury after the 2003 worlds). Those are the normal ups and downs, has nothing do with Chinese or ex-Chinese dominance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 9:55am
This has serious implications for the IOC if allowed to happen. Pursuit of happiness, that is an inalienable right of all human beings. Who decides who is allowed to migrate? Will a naturalized citizen be barred from international competition on the basis of their skin color? Table tennis is already at a precarious position without this scandal. If passed, this will ensure the removal of table tennis from the Olympics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dimitris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 12:33pm
I was actually disappointed that only three Chinese players could participate, I think more talented players from China would have made even the 1st round matches exciting. And if it takes people to migrate to other countries in order to see some excellent matches, I believe that is fine. The fact that Kreanga is born in Romania and plays in France does not stop me from supporting and cheering him as a Greek player during his matches against players representing other countries.

Supply and demand works in sports as much as anywhere else. If matches were more exciting among geographically grouped people, then teams in any sport, including football, basketball and practically all team and most individual sports, would not import players from other countries or even other cities, suburbs, etc. But you see that in all cases, bringing players from somewhere else elevates the competitive and performing level of the sports and brings more people in the arenas and the playing fields. And since globalization is a fact in today's world, i think extreme nationalistic ideals most probably do not have a place. Sure, keeping some nationalistic spirit is good for team support and keeping the excitement high during a match, because if everybody is on the same team, who cares who wins. But for the sake of high level in sports, too many restrictions can deter people from enjoying the sports as much.

At the same time I believe the restrictions that ITTF wants to bring about are not that bad, since they may help equate the playing level among countries, mostly by reducing the level of Chinese players! :-) . If only a very few can make it to the Chinese national team and there are no options of playing for another country, then people may think actually of table tennis as a secondary career option instead of primary goal, like it is in most other countries, so the investment in the sport in China may decrease a bit. Unless of course the sponsorships and audience support is elevated to other popular sports' levels, so a career in table tennis is an option for more players.

Just a couple of thoughts...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dalamchops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 12:54pm
why are people freaking out that China is dominating the sport? For years the US had dominated basketball, but eventually the rest of the world will catch on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 1:14pm
why are people freaking out that China is dominating the sport? For years the US had dominated basketball, but eventually the rest of the world will catch on.
 
nicely said!! so does this mean if a country like say Spain can come up with maybe 30 NBA player, that we should band them,  i don't think so. I think the best player should play, no matter which country they are from or got their training, if the good old USA want to win a medal in the games, maybe they should spend $$ and put it more on TV like NBC did this year.
 
thats just me thinking...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PangLionel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 1:26pm

Hi,I'm from Singapore and I think its good to import foreign talent from China because China has too many people. As our prime minister has said China has 1billion people whilst Singapore only has 4million,30times lesser. They can get hundreds of medals while we can only get one and they still have many unused talents over there.

Hence Singapore is a place whereby we can fully make use of their unwanted talent and bring their potentials into good use,which is not a bad thing after all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PangLionel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 1:35pm
Also the chinese won't be able to have a good meal with pride alone. No one can live on pride alone. They need good money to survive which is what Singapore can provide them with and hence they have made a decision to play for us.
 
Singapore is a small country and is unable to survive on its own(eg.olympics),we definitely need the influx foreign talent to help us out in our sports and economy.
 
Hopefully in the future even our army can be consisted of China people and Singaporeans will not have to serve national service with more time to spend on strengthening the economy. If we can get foreigners to play the olympics,why not get them to join the army too?
 
Our economy will be gradually stronger this way and soon our currency will be bigger than usd. In the near future we would be able to get 6-7 brazillians to play soccer for us and dominate the soccer world too. Maybe couple australians and americans for the swim team too.
Cool!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PangLionel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 1:44pm
Lastly its really intriguing to see money making a group of people from the same country turn against one another. It really gives me good assurance that our sgd is powerful,the economy is strong and the government is doing a good job.
Just look at the hatred Zhang Yining has in her eyes in the 2008 world team championships when Li Jiawei beat Guo Yue. Priceless! SGD, mastercard AE and Visa also cannot buy.
This is definitely one major beauty of the modern day sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 2:00pm
This is an interview with Adam. his intent is clear, to kill Chinese dominence.
I don't think ANY equipment changes or rules will do that. China just trains harder, has more schools for TT, puts more effort in, starts students younger,,,,on and on. Change the equipment and the same thing will happen.
Bigger ball? (42mm), higher net? That will just mean New rubbers, new blades, more $$$$$ from us and the Chinese will still win. (this was translated by babblefish? Something like that, but you get the idea. Bad idea.

Quote:
26.08.08 12:02

Vision�rer view into the future
ITTF president Adham Sharara in the detailed interview on de.ittf.com: � for of Europe table tennis players each change of rule is a large chance to be able to come China more near. �

Adham Sharara in the exclusive interview

The Canadian Adham Sharara is one of the most powerful sport politicians of the world. As a president of the table tennis world union ITTF it manages 205 member federations. _ in interview for de.ittf.com speak the visionary after end the apply over China dominance, Europe error and approach change.

Mr. Sharara, they were how content with the Olympic Games in Peking? Actually very much, even if at the beginning everything did not run perfectly. The light was not optimal here and Beijing High School for university purposes was built. Here there was a swimming pool even in the cellar. Those resounds is ideal, in order to exercise many kinds of sport in it. For table tennis Events it was too small on the days, on which we had to play on eight tables, but. But we got everything that we wanted to have of the supervisors, immediately. Thus seen we had it do with a perfect organization. I am not very happy however for completely different reasons?

?

The results do to me as a world president pain. The fact that the team Events was dominated of China was not foreseeable that in addition, all medals go in the single at China, is good for our sport. And that J�rgen Persson was with its 41 years the only non--Chinese in the Semifinale, that is a statement, which does not please me. In Europe at present much does not run well.

What concrete do they mean?

I am afraid Europe have a problem on the coach sector and a problem in training actually. Few weeks ago I had to observe the opportunity a training of Chinese players. That is another world than in the remainder of the world. The Coaching level in China is higher than in Europe. I believe that Europe should try to concentrate more on the training of young players. Therefore I have also large hope into the Academy of Werner hit, which develops in Schwechat. Europe must look that the young players achieve in former times a higher level. Also Europe former Topspieler such as Waldner, Gatien or also Stellan Bengtsson was with 18 or 19 already absolute world leaders. That miss I today. I say also completely honestly, me Germany with these plays to something disappointed.

But Germany got silver in the Teambewerb. Over it Austria would have been very happy.

Is correct already, but one was not allowed to expect Austria in the play around bronze. Austria exceeded and very well played expectations. Above all Robert DOS has me very impressively here. He was already in former times a good player, but he achieved the next stage here.

And which does not have you at Germany fallen?

That I had the impression after the introduction in the team final somehow that the crew was very content including responsible person thereby. And that was also a beautiful success. But I missed the absolute feeling that Germany China wants genuinly to attack and defeat. Not that they would not have fought it was missing, but to something to me. I said also to the German functionaries.

Of China press does dominance in the international table tennis on the TV-ratios and the mood of the sponsors?

No, absolutely not. The sponsors want to again be on the television and do that them particularly with world championships and with the Worldcup or with tournaments in sufficient measure. And the television numbers in China were a sensation for our sport here. I have just now the switching on numbers of the first week gotten and there was table tennis in China at four of seven days the number 1. that am mad for our sport and a large chance for the future.

And which one can really do now, in order to prevent that China continues to run away?

I have still here in China very important discussions. Above all also with the Chinese. I want an opening of China to favour of our sport. China must understand that they harm their own sport, if dominance becomes crushing. Then the spectators lose the interest. I want to achieve a constant exchange at the coach sector. I want that experiences are exchanged between China and the remainder of the world. And the training attitude of the Europeans must change.

In which relationship?

When I was with training in China, I won the impression that the players are pleased, if the loads become larger. There they bear completely different loads. And it would never happen that, as I had already observed it in Europe, to player a training to deny, without a coach stands beside it. And above all: In Europe they stop with training, if they are tired. That is a mentality question and question of the motivation, which must come also of the coaches. Apart from the fact coaches in Europe work to for a long time on the same mark. I cannot see that any longer, if coaches train 20 years long in and the same national team. In China the principle prevails to exchange every six years the coaches in order to prevent that they burn out. And Europe needs more young of coach. Players, who do not create it completely up, are to work already early as coaches. Those must be trained with experience and creativity. Therefore I trust hits and its future center evenly also much on Werner, because it is evenly one, which won everything and much pass on can. And if younger people are then ruled out after a certain time in their job than coaches, they are still young enough to do something else. Humans, who stop with 55 as a coach, do not get so easily a new job.

The ITTF made many drastic changes of rule in the last years. Do further changes line up?

We should improve constantly further. No change of the change because of, but it gives still many possibilities.

Which?

The enlargement of the balls from 38 millimeters to 40 millimeters did to our sport well. The players deplore by right that the quality of the balls suffered from it. There we set the lever. We have already 42-Millimeter-B�lle in test series and to wait once the results off. Apart from the fact I am by intensive measurements draufgekommen that there is not one 40-Millimeter-Ball anyhow in this world. All are scarcely over 39,5 millimeters and like that. And naturally the increase of the net is over up to a centimeter always a topic. It is certain for me in addition, that we do not concern a next change of rule, until the players had sufficiently the opportunity to get accustomed to the new conditions under the new adhesive regulation starting from autumn.

The net more highly and are the balls more largely will, in order to make the play slower and more comprehensible?

Yes, I want to bring the defense players back into our sport. That is attractive. And I want to only then stop to develop our sport further if humans in Canada, in Germany or with you in Austria the players on the roads for autographs to ask. If the TV-stations argue about the rights of cession, if all resounding are gerammelt full. Only if all that is creative, we may be content and stop with the advancement of our sport in the meantime.

But the players often react rejecting on the changes of rule.

And I do not understand. On the one hand 64 years in our sport nothing at all now did not have itself changed and straight nevertheless above all the Europeans to be totally happy, if which changes. They must positively go in this topics, because each change offers the chance to come China more near than it is the case at present. There a nice example occurs to me.

Which?

When we shortened the sentences at that time of 21 to 11 points, Werner hit did not play with the Worldcup following on it well. Its coach Ferenc Karsai still accused to me same evening to kill the table tennis sport. Werner became a little later 2003 in of Paris world champions in a tournament, in which on 11 points one played. I mean. Europeans must change and more positively think their mentality.

In Peking in the table tennis single and crew-apply delivered. Will it give the same program to 2012 in London?

I want to discuss already very soon first ITTF internally and then with the IOC suggestions for improvement from my side. A Einzelbewerb with maximally two players of a country at the beginning table tennis-applies. Thus one prevents already times that a country clears like here China all medals. Then I want a Teambewerb, because that is emotional the high point here and was also. There it comes to the duel of two countries. More than a internal-Chinese final game in the single polarizes. And I want again a Doppelbewerb with 16 pairs and only one double per nation. We will discuss and then will see that further. In principle the table tennis sport has large future chances. We must only use it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 2:04pm
hi
people are boored. what do you expect, when out of say 65 women, in the olympic about 30 are chinese born and trained  instead of 3. is this what china is about communism and domination of the whole world. it stinks and it is ugly we need diversity in international competition. china and chinese players should only be 3 period . afterall there are only 3 medals at stake.
enough of these china against exchinese rejects.
 
this has nothing to do about immigration or china. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 2:31pm
hi hookshot
 
i agree with you in many ways. china is technically superior to many teams and have many strong players.
however, tt is a sport just like any other sports everyone should have a chance to win that is why we compete, if not just hand over all the medals to china.
 
is tt just for rich nations or for sport development. so what do poor countries do even if they have talents and rich countries without talents like singapore come up with silver. is that what tt and olympic competition is about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 2:34pm
trash and tasteless.
 
whao i guess people have different taste without regards for rules and fairness.
 
who is watching china against chinese rejects. nobody. watch china superleague instead not in the olympics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 2:37pm
so singapore does not have any talent for tt. they must be a nation of whimps, sissies, disabled people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 2:44pm
China is Not a rich country. That is one reason why they made ping pong the national sport. Everyone can afford it.
The US used to dominate baseball. They did not change the rules to "use wiffle balls and plastic bats" so the US could not strike out everybody or hit so many home runs. Japan is a contender now by hard work.
I am not argueing about having so many players from China play for different countries, a 5 year rule might be good but I am against all the equipment changes to take away Chinese dominance. Also, other countries benifit having Chinese players in their country to show us how to play, train, better. It will not work because China will just work on the new stuff harder than the rest of us. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 2:57pm
oh, i agree with you totally. equipment changes will change nothing. the chinese are technically superior and will modify and adapt new strategies and styles and continue their dominance if the present stutus hold of having these chinese rejects play as mecenary in every nation. this is the changes that can stop this dominance.
 
i am not saying china is a rich nation, i mean they invest in the sport development. i mean countries like singapore, usa, canada, etc just have money to import players instead of developing the sport in their own countries. this is injustice, criminal and it is cheating. no different from doping.
 
these chinese players should be coaches or technical experts. they are rejects. look at he zhe we or weixing. nobody  in the chinese men's team even play that syle any more might be in their female team.
 
look at david zhuang against toriola in the last olympics. although the played his best game ever with him, i am sure he must have lost at least 3 times to segun. david is definetely a better technical player but was too feable and weak to win. segun was just struggling and was fitter. say way when i saw him loose to pradeeban of canada.
 
these rejects are giving china the edge in international tt.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 3:15pm
'these rejects are giving china the edge in international tt.'
 
these reject beats most of the highest home growns in North America..
by calling them rejects you have no respect for talent, thats just wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 3:16pm
and they might be your only hope of winning anything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dimitris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 3:20pm
Well, before starting with table tennis, we can start I guess with basketball and stop watching the NBA outside US, so nobody has to see the rejects of US play basketball, right?! LOL Come on, do there arguments sound sane?

As mentioned, by calling the non-national team Chinese players rejects, you call rejects all the other players of the world, which perform at that level or lower...

EDIT: Sorry, but I think I am on candid camera, was this thread created to have fun on people arguing the obvious?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 3:27pm
I think those "Rejects" help the rest of the world catch up in their own training programs. I would love it if I had a high level Chinese player locally.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 3:28pm
thanks ! I think ur right dimitris, this guy is a joke, anyone with that kind of thinking is 1 a racist or 2 a racist, i guess he got beat by a few reject before and the only way for him to win is to get them out of the country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 3:31pm
if they have any strong points china will not let them go.
 
also, i don't have anything against them, but they should only be allowed to represent the country that developed them. it is too crowded of only chinese players. the women is about 50% chinese born in this olympics. so you want it to be 100% chinese. is basket ball 100% american in international basketball . how many players do china import to represent them though that is beside the point.
let be real, international tt is crowded with rejects, it is ugly and criminal. period.
i will be better watching the chinese superleague than watching ittf competition.
 
if i am a playing player for any nation, i will refuse to play against these players who are not developed by he host country period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 3:37pm
hookshot
 
"I think those "Rejects" help the rest of the world catch up in their own training programs. I would love it if I had a high level Chinese player locally."
 
i can't agree with you more. yes, to be coaches and technical experts. but not representing usa or any other nation that did not develop them.
it criminal and unjust and unfair if they are allowed to represent. i am not racist i think a lot of these chinese in these forum are.
 
let face it this rejects have had their chances, with the best facilities and that is why they play better than local players but let the local player have a chance to develop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 3:46pm

remember 1.3 billion people, if you have all that people wouldn't pick the best of the best? me calling you a racist maybe wrong, but look at what you are writing, you are going after one race 'chinese',

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manluski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 4:02pm
my dear friend, chopper88
 
i am not going after the chinese, i am going after ittf for allowing this criminal, injustice and unfairness to continue is tt. 
 
chinese have done their part by developing good players and the sport. let other nations do the same with the aid of chinese but not as players that they did not develop.  like singapore.
manluski
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 4:11pm
ok, thats fair to say, but what happen to all those player that are still good if not better the the ones on the national teams, remember it is a commie country, if you don't follow thier rules they can do what ever they pleases, like never make it to the team, I want those player, cause I thinnk they wil train harder and will be thankful another country is giving them a chance to prove their old country wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2008 at 4:20pm
manluski your logic is warped and you cannot see it.

Oh and phuck you for your comment about disabled people!
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