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Playing a chopper

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    Posted: 05/19/2005 at 5:44pm
I play regularly against a person who is a chopper. Almost nothing but backhand chops and some forehand chops.  I have a very very hard time playing against this person. I can usually pull out a win but it is quite difficult. I see it to be much harder to play against than a regular topspin loop. Can someone give me some information or some tips on how to play against a chopper like this??? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alink91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2005 at 5:48pm
My advice is too loop very consistenly agisnt the side he cannot attack on, also, use side spin loops sometimes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dondish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2005 at 6:42pm
first attck after a relative easy ball into the buddy and then, start moving him while watching where he expects the ball
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yulske Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2005 at 7:17pm
if he gives you nothing, loop drive the ball to oblivion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Patmandidily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2005 at 7:56pm
I wrote two really long posts on this awhile ago. Attack the center. Most choppers poorly cover the center. Otherwise, try varying the spin on loops. Loop one very spinny then one not so spinny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2005 at 10:26pm

Here are the details:

Handling defensive player (chopper):

 

  1. With a chopper the goal is to serve short and then do strong attack.
  2. Choppers are most vulnerable in the middle. When you serve short and attack at corners chopper can take long strides to reach it but in the middle he can not move fast and is forced to take it early by chopping or blocking.
  3. Sometimes change the strategy and fake attack and push it.
  4. Other way to handle, push short on backhand, attack deep into forehand or
  5.  Push short on forehand and then attack deep into backhand. Changing sides to defend on strong attack is very difficult especially when you push on forehand and attack deep on backhand. The shoulder blades hinder the chopper from stretching beyond a point making return difficult or impossible.
  6. If a chopper is successful in chopping the strong attack, push short and start again. His chop in short push will be weaker then his chop on your strong topspin. He has to rush to get the short push and would be in a motion to go near the table, your attack at that point would be more effective.
  7. If he has long pips then attacking soft topspins to find a loose ball to hit harder is effective too. With long pips the spin return is as strong as the spin you send to him.
  8. Varying spin from no spin to very spinny balls is crucial to keep the variations. But, when you do heavy spin, expect a heavy chop back and the vice versa.
  9. Consistent heavy spin topspins are not good as this allows chopper to do consistent heavy chops making you erratic.
  10. Not letting the chopper build the rhythm is crucial.
  11. Sometimes pushing twice to one side and top spinning to the other side is effective. By pushing twice to one side you are setting him up to build one side memory and then making him change to opposite side.
  12. When top spinning get your eye level close to the ball that way you can watch the ball better, bend your knees and lift. This will make it more consistent.
  13. Lastly, if you can not topspin enough, you could at lower and medium level chop back and wait for loose ball to attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bslater5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2005 at 10:31pm
If his chop spin gets excessive (giving you trouble) try to push every third ball or so. If you can manage, push to his weaker attack side. Keep them low and, if possible short.

This will make him move in and out, and will slow the spin down. Most choppers don't like being too close. If you can catch him close, or just starting back, go for the body!

Be patient if you can't simply overpowser him (I should heed this advice myself!)!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DTopSpirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 3:40am

Originally posted by hohenadel hohenadel wrote:

I play regularly against a person who is a chopper. Almost nothing but backhand chops and some forehand chops.  I have a very very hard time playing against this person. I can usually pull out a win but it is quite difficult. I see it to be much harder to play against than a regular topspin loop. Can someone give me some information or some tips on how to play against a chopper like this??? Thanks.

Hi hohenadel,

I've got some info that might help with your tactics at

http://members.iinet.net.au/~jsgletts/tabletennis/articles/mptAttackervsDefender.html

Have a look and see what you think.

Greg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttplayer05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 5:03am
Try looping into the middle of the table, this way he can not get an angle on his return, choppers are always weakest when it comes into their body.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yulske Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 5:25am
try to push to make them loop, they will almost always go cross court because thats the safest and the block, ive seen a lot of choppers lose points like this...the most recent being paul pinkewich last nite and he used to be australian champ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hohenadel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 10:18am
Thanks a lot to everyone who gave me the info. Helping a lot actually already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttplayer05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 10:25am
Also, make sure you keep moving them about, (long deep loops and short pushes, therefore moving them in and out), never let them settle into a rhythm.  Also, dont feel as if you have to win the point in your first shot, be patient and wait for the correct ball to attack against
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 11:41am
Do a google search on dr pinpong tips.  There's some good stuff in there on chopping and in general.
Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttplayer05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 11:46am

go to this link:

http://www.masatenisi.org/english/kesmeci.htm

good article on how to play choppers, and the different styles of choppers about.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sumitani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 11:48am
Choppers tend to have weaker forehand chops, largely because the natural motion of the stroke is more conducive to the backhand. The backhand provides more opportunity for a smoother, faster arm/wrist combination, whereas the forehand chop is a little weird. I'm sure you can feel it when you try.

Anyway, a standard method that I use is a very simple 3 shot point, with you serving.

-Serve with left side spin so that the opponent will generally return to your left side. Either that or any serve that will get you a weak/decent return to your side.
-During that return, you have to make a decision, to either drive down the line or across the table. This is where you will have to find out which direction your opponent is expecting the ball.
1)Generally people don't expect the loop down the line at first, so that's an easy draw.
2)After you do this shot down the line, try it again. However, usually people expect you to drive down the line again, so they anticipate. Act as if you are about to drive down the line, but hit the ball later so that you go across the court.
3)The opponent's shift of weight towards defending against a down-the-line shot will throw their balance off and they will have to scramble to return the cross court shot, if at all. It will be a weaker shot, so then you can take advantage of it.

Another method that I use is to really make use of short and long serves. Watch your opponent's ready position and if he or she is standing just a little far back, try a really short back spin serve and watch for a weak return.
After this happens, he or she will probably be ready for another short serve, so send a bullet topspin down the line.

A lot of choppers have really weak attacks too, so if you lob the ball up 3-4 feet above the table, you might be surprised to see that many choppers screw this up, by either not knowing how to loop very well, their pips prevent them from attacking, or they just leap for the opportunity of attacking. If they somehow do crush the ball, you'll be standing back and ready to drive the ball back even faster, catching them off-guard when they are close to the table.

Remember that chopping is very tiring, because there's a lot of running around for them. Instead of trying to overpower their agility, try to fool them with placement and variation instead of force, because it also becomes a tiring game for you too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hristo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 1:14pm

I just atack aggressively whit the strongest forehand loop that I can produse(something that Kreanga's style)

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Patmandidily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by bslater5 bslater5 wrote:

If his chop spin gets excessive (giving you trouble) try to push every third ball or so. If you can manage, push to his weaker attack side. Keep them low and, if possible short.

This will make him move in and out, and will slow the spin down. Most choppers don't like being too close. If you can catch him close, or just starting back, go for the body!

Be patient if you can't simply overpowser him (I should heed this advice myself!)!

bes


I wouldn't say push to his weaker attack side so much as I would say that it's generally better to push to the forehand. Your push will likely not have much, if any, spin. The inverted rubber would likely make the chopper pop the ball up, making for an easy loop to the center.

Also, on this topic, I'm very satisfied with the general quality of information. Players should use lots of this stuff in game.

What I haven't seen much of though is variation. Don't be predictable at all. As an attacker, you probably have many weapons in your arsenal. Use each one of them. One of my favorite examples of play against defenders is Schlager vs. Joo Se Hyuk in the final for the worlds. The play was essentially perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *JC* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 10:31pm
watch out pat, im sure there is a mob of peole who want to tell you that schlagers play was not "essentially perfect", but it was essentially lucky or fluky or some other bullsh*t.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yulske Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2005 at 10:43pm

Originally posted by Patmandidily Patmandidily wrote:

Originally posted by bslater5 bslater5 wrote:

If his chop spin gets excessive (giving you trouble) try to push every third ball or so. If you can manage, push to his weaker attack side. Keep them low and, if possible short.

This will make him move in and out, and will slow the spin down. Most choppers don't like being too close. If you can catch him close, or just starting back, go for the body!

Be patient if you can't simply overpowser him (I should heed this advice myself!)!

bes


I wouldn't say push to his weaker attack side so much as I would say that it's generally better to push to the forehand. Your push will likely not have much, if any, spin. The inverted rubber would likely make the chopper pop the ball up, making for an easy loop to the center.

Also, on this topic, I'm very satisfied with the general quality of information. Players should use lots of this stuff in game.

What I haven't seen much of though is variation. Don't be predictable at all. As an attacker, you probably have many weapons in your arsenal. Use each one of them. One of my favorite examples of play against defenders is Schlager vs. Joo Se Hyuk in the final for the worlds. The play was essentially perfect.

you gotta be kidding about the push to the choppers forehand thing right?

if theres one thing choppers do well its chop and push, thats their game, you push to their forehand and theyll push back and hard with lots of spin, push to their backhand, that way you know you wont get much spin...use the pimples as a way to control the point because you know that they cant spin at all....then when you get your pimple return, loop drive hard into the body...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2005 at 5:20am
I'd like to agree with Yulske. Generally players are stronger on their forehand side. That goes for choppers and attackers, of course there is always the exception... Ive learnt some great tips from this topic, lm looking forward to trying them on...I think of course most of the errudite tips come from those players at the top of their club. If this is true the tips are probably tailored for higher level player. For instance lve found a slow loop lob to be effective against the players l play. It wears the defender down. Takes the pressure off you and give you the time to make your move when you see the opportunity., however a higher level  defender would just cream the ball back..  Yulske, l envy you getting the chance to see Pinkerwich play. Although he plays completely different to Waldner, l think Pauls our older model to Waldner. As a younster my role model was Craig Camphell. A Victorian....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Patmandidily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2005 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by yulske yulske wrote:

Originally posted by Patmandidily Patmandidily wrote:

Originally posted by bslater5 bslater5 wrote:

If his chop spin gets excessive (giving you trouble) try to push every third ball or so. If you can manage, push to his weaker attack side. Keep them low and, if possible short.

This will make him move in and out, and will slow the spin down. Most choppers don't like being too close. If you can catch him close, or just starting back, go for the body!

Be patient if you can't simply overpowser him (I should heed this advice myself!)!

bes


I wouldn't say push to his weaker attack side so much as I would say that it's generally better to push to the forehand. Your push will likely not have much, if any, spin. The inverted rubber would likely make the chopper pop the ball up, making for an easy loop to the center.

Also, on this topic, I'm very satisfied with the general quality of information. Players should use lots of this stuff in game.

What I haven't seen much of though is variation. Don't be predictable at all. As an attacker, you probably have many weapons in your arsenal. Use each one of them. One of my favorite examples of play against defenders is Schlager vs. Joo Se Hyuk in the final for the worlds. The play was essentially perfect.


you gotta be kidding about the push to the choppers forehand thing right?


if theres one thing choppers do well its chop and push, thats their game, you push to their forehand and theyll push back and hard with lots of spin, push to their backhand, that way you know you wont get much spin...use the pimples as a way to control the point because you know that they cant spin at all....then when you get your pimple return, loop drive hard into the body...



Yulske, I think you misunderstood. When you are looping to a chopper's backhand or center, then you drop to a chopper's forehand, they have to make the longest movement, so he could make an error if he is not fast enough. Also the chopper is probably pushing with a bit of underspin, so it will be easier to make a consistent loop over since you will be generating more topspin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AVarun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2005 at 2:33pm

 

 Sunny, that was a very detailed description about how to play a chopper! Good stuff.    Choppers can be really annoying, because they force you to adjust your game, sometimes drastically, in order to play them.  A blocker or counter-player cannot continue his style against a reasonably good chopper( 1800+) and hope to succeed. You have to do other things: push, roll, loop, chop back, play down the middle more etc.   Irritating as they are, I realise deep down that their game has more skill than my game does!  One day, I'll find the right mix to play them successfully.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DTopSpirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/07/2005 at 8:24am

Originally posted by tell tell wrote:

Yulske, l envy you getting the chance to see Pinkerwich play. Although he plays completely different to Waldner, l think Pauls our older model to Waldner. As a younster my role model was Craig Camphell. A Victorian....

Actually, Craig is still playing over here in WA - I played pennants with him for many years and won the State Doubles with him a few times - a great player and good guy too!

Greg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yulske Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/07/2005 at 8:49am
patman, i know what you mean, your right, but you have to push them hard to the backhand, most of the time theyll be scrambling to get the ball back so usually it wont have much work on the push, but then if it does, you clearly can see it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon yeung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2005 at 11:17am

yes i know how u feel I am a penhold player I easly have the advantage over attackers but when i play a defander I try to drive it on top of the bounce or loop it but I always play in his rythem and I hate there slow game pase

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alexm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2005 at 2:18pm
If you are having trouble looping consistently against chopper, you have to remember to slow loop every aggressive chop and not try to do too much with it. Only when you get higher and less spinning ball then you can put all your power into loop. And if your fast loop comes back as aggressive chop again, you have to force yourself to slow down and continue with slow loops until the next high ball comes along. Takes some patience but works very well in the end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longpong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2005 at 4:55pm
Every chopper is a individual type of player as for the offence player is or any style basically..so I don't think there is any univeruall method about it, u just have to look at your opponents weakness,witch evry player have more or less,same strategy as with any player/style I think. But in general choppers have problems with very fast movement cause the defensive strokes "in general" requires more footwork to make the strokes right and it's easier side to side contra short-long rally,so there is allways a way to go.and offcourse variation,spin,speed,angles..but I think that will work against any style..very short backspin servers is good cause the chopper can't make so heavy chops agianst it..the site that's speaks about the choppers weakness in forehands and so on I think is just bullsh*t,depends on the player, some choppers have infact have a greater forehands so that will just confuse u .....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2005 at 1:54am
Here's an article I wrote on playing choppers. Hope it helps!
http://www.usatt.org/tip_photo/072301.shtml
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Patmandidily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2005 at 12:02pm

"Only when you get higher and less spinning ball then you can put all your power into loop"

I find that when I spin a chop well, a chopper will chop those higher because it's harder to control since it has more spin. Thus, the higher chops usually have more spin.

"very short backspin servers is good cause the chopper can't make so heavy chops agianst it..the site that's speaks about the choppers weakness in forehands and so on I think is just bullsh*t"

We're really always speaking in generalities, but if someone loops a heavy chop to a chopper's forehand well, then they're probably going to give a worse return since all the spin is harder to control with the inverted rubber.

Also, I actually find short backspin isn't that great a serve against choppers. If I'm playing against long pips on the backhand, I think that topspin, no spin, fast topspin, and fast no spin are the best serves. This is because these serves will give me the most predictable return. If I serve underspin into the pips, the long pips player can do something weak and give me topspin or chop under it heavily and give me a no spin return. I will really only serve short underspin into long pips if I'm playing a chopper once a game.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vici Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2005 at 12:38am
Try alternating your loops, some fast lobs (with a lot of spin), and others loop drives down the line.

Also, keep the guy moving, and be unpredictable. If the guy can only chop, he shouldn't be much of a problem.

Above all else, get the ball on the table.
"Courage is ability to let go of the familiar"
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