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ERKE GERMAN OPEN 2008

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Marian023 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marian023 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Kalin Kalin wrote:

Adrian Crisan had taken his racket to�the officials before the match started, the racket passed the test and then he used another racket for the match.

From where do you know he used another racket for the match? Do u saw him change it?
so..tolk when u have some prove!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marian023 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:55am
a user from the other forum in romanian language spoken with Crisan and he say was the same rocket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marian023 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Kalin Kalin wrote:

Adrian Crisan had taken his racket to�the officials before the match started, the racket passed the test and then he used another racket for the match. After the match and�the referee�discovered that the racket covering was too thick. So according to me: or A) Crisan did take another bat
B) The referee did not messure the racket covering good enough ( it should never have passed the first test)


B) The referee did messure the racket on a day before too and told was OK when was a match in team event, Crisan told that to user on that forum when spoken with him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kalin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 11:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 12:22pm

kalin

so, who is to blame? the official ?
this is german conspiracy, remember ocharov is out. so if timo is out no other german has any chance?
 
when has timos paddle been tested after winning a match?
 
i call for a players boycott of german competition. period. this is racism, favoritism or discrimination in sports. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crs2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 12:24pm
we're not blaming Boll, why would we? Officials measured the raquet before the match and said it was3.88mm. After the match it was over 4.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote le xex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:05pm
here is the video of crisan clearly cheating at the US Open 2008 http://www.butterflyonline.com/2008/USOMSR164.asp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark 5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:17pm
Boll said in an interview at tischtennis.de (in german, link see below), that he knew before the match that Crisan would play with an illegal racket. Otherwise Crisan would not start into the match, without his standard racket. This was signaled to Boll by Crisan before the match. Here is the Link:
http://www.tischtennis.de/aktuelles/details.php?id=8095
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manluski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:19pm
that is a stupid analogy!
 
is us open the same as german open? we did not ask for this video. we are not comparing oranges and apple.
 
where is the video for this german open 2008,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crs2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:47pm

People close to Crisan said that his raquet was measured 4.04 and Boll's measured 4.02. Officials said that Boll's raquet was in the error margin. At 4.04 Crisan's was not. Unbelivable how biased those judges were.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grubbafan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:49pm
man, what makes he think that he can get away with cheating? First with Patrick Baum, and now this? When will he ever learn? Sigh!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ciprian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 2:47pm
How much do you think 0.02 helped him to beat Boll?How much is the error margin?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grubbafan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 2:51pm
If it doesn't help him much, why did he need to do it anyway? Doesn't it make him look silly on his part?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark 5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 2:59pm
It�s not about 0.02 (if this is an correct information). If the rubber ist tuned (and the enlargement of the rubber is an evidence for tuning!) it supports a complete different feeling an opportunities to play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ciprian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 3:08pm
You  probably are right ,but don't you think something is strange in this story?(From 3.88 to 4.04 ).Nobody saw when he changed the blade,if he really changed it?C'mon!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 3:09pm
Does anyone know what rubber Crisan was using?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by crs2 crs2 wrote:

People close to Crisan said that his raquet was measured 4.04 and Boll's measured 4.02. Officials said that Boll's raquet was in the error margin. At 4.04 Crisan's was not. Unbelivable how biased those judges were.



Since you seem to have some info from Romania, perhaps you can help us make sense of the situation. So far it all seems very confusing! Was the 4.04 the result of the pre-match test or the post-match test?

Here's how things may have happened:
- Crisan's primary racket failed the pre-match test; he then submitted another paddle (apparently Cioti's?), which passed the test. This second racket was cleared for use in the match (and brought to the table by the umpire??).
- Crisan told Boll that he would rather default the match than play it with Cioti's racket
- Crisan then reglued his primary racket, took off the old glue layers to bring the thickness down. Did he then also have this racket retested, and it came out as 3.88mm?? But do the rules allow a player to reglue a racket that has failed a test?
- Somehow Crisan managed to play with his primary racket (the one he reglued) instead of the one that the umpires had initially approved (Cioti's apparently). Boll was aware of this but just went ahead and played the match anyway. But why was the switch not noticed by the umpire?
- After the match Crisan's racket (the one he used during the match) was tested and turned out to be illegal.

Some of the above is based on a statement on the Donic website:
http://donicext.dbap.de/index.php?id=24&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=103&tx_ttnews[backPid]=14&cHash=fb93b7037c
But what Crisan says seems to contradict the referees' version, so someone must be lying.

As for the US Open incident, it does show that earlier this year Crisan did try to circumvent the rules when he was unhappy with his equipment. That's certainly not something that speaks in his favor.

After the match Boll had already left the arena and was about to drive home when he got the phone call telling him about the disqualification.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crs2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 4:42pm

Boll said he knew about the fact that Crisan will play with an illegal raquet. How, I don't know. Crisan says he played with the raquet the umpire brought back. Raquet before match 3,88 after the match 4.04. He glued with a thin layer of legal glue before testing. Maybe that was the culprit. Since he glued before the first test, the sponge might have expanded 0.5 during the match. Who knows. But the fact that he may be innocent and we are discussing 0.5 mm changes in thickness instead of the match itself  is proof that things aren't going the right way.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crs2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

-
- Crisan told Boll that he would rather default the match than play it with Cioti's racket
 
Not likely.  Even if true, His raquet came back OK and he used it during the match.
 
 
Why on earth was Crisan's raquet tested again?
Have you ever heard of such thing? It is clear the officials either had something against Crisan or simply wouldn't let Boll lose. The later is a bit far fetched, I know.
Boll knew about the illegal raquet but he'd rather lose than denounce Crisan???? In the German Open??? Come on people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elcapitan_thfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by jcdi jcdi wrote:

Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

Originally posted by naijachief naijachief wrote:

technically....yes......lol. I wonder what blade and rubber Crisan uses.
 
Yeh...I wonder which Booster he is using as well
 
Yes, I wonder too. What kind of booster enables the sponge to get thicker DURING the match ? His blade was controlled before and after and stayed in the game area, right ? Before was OK, after wasn't...Weird, isn't ?
 
Actually, what I find the weirdest is that Adrian Crisan was considered as a great champion and one of the most talented european player 12 weeks ago and now, he's just a cheater...THAT is weird !
 
 
Well it doesn't make any difference to his talent he is til a great player but obviously not good enough that he can't win without breaking the rules and cheating.
As far as I am aware someone who cheats is indeed a cheater so that is what Crisan is if he used Booster!
 
It is annoying the way that everyone is blaming the ITTF, the rules have been layed down and are the same for everyone, and it has become clear that no-one other than Crisan is at fault - he is the one who has not complied to the rules. The ITTF have not changed them to screw him personally over.
 
In the report on ITTF it says he tested a racket and then brought a different one to the table which then failed the test post match.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crs2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

 
In the report on ITTF it says he tested a racket and then brought a different one to the table which then failed the test post match.
 
 
The report is wrong. By the way there are other opinions on this matter, read the news on the Donic site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTNoobie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:25pm
Is it normal procedure to test the racket after the match is completed

Is it clear that Crisan did not change his racket during play?  There should obviously be video proof if he did or not.

The ref allowed him to play with this racket.  It sure raises eyebrows when the golden boy of German tabletennis is eliminated in the German open.... hmmmmmmm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:51pm
@crs2:
Could you be a bit more precise in relaying what you have heard? Please answer these questions:
- Crisan's personal racket first failed the pre-match test, right or wrong?
- Crisan submitted Cioti's racket as his second racket in the pre-match test, right or wrong?
- Was the 3.88mm the result of a second test done after Crisan reglued the rubbers on his personal racket? (That seems to be what he's saying on the Donic website.)
- How much time elapsed between the test and the match (you wrote "2 hours" but that seems way too long), and where was Crisan's personal racket during this time?
- When was Boll's racket tested as 4.02mm: before or after the match?
- Why is it "not likely" that Crisan told people (including Boll perhaps) that he would refuse to play if his personal racket is not approved? Carneros did the same thing yesterday, defaulting the match when he had to go to a backup paddle. Crisan basically did the same at the US Open.

There may have been some confusion among the umpires about which racket had passed the pre-match test, and when they noticed this they went ahead with the post-match test to make sure the racket actually used in the match was legal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:53pm
I would really like to see this match and a psychically evidence (video), if there is one, of Crisan changing the blade.

Boll was using 4.02mm, Crisan - 4.04mm why they aren't both disqualified???
I agree with elcapitan_thfc here, the rules are everyone, including Boll. Big%20smile

Quote from http://www.ittf.com/ITTF_Hand_Book/2_Handbook.pdf

2.4.3 A side of the blade used for striking the ball shall be covered with either
ordinary pimpled rubber, with pimples outwards having a total thickness
including adhesive of not more than 2mm, or sandwich rubber, with pimples
inwards or outwards, having a total thickness including adhesive of not more
than 4mm.

I couldn't find anything related to an "error margin".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark 5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:07pm
Well, the Info of the values came only from crs2. Very vague infos i think!  There are no official values about the thickness of the rubbers of both players. So why speculate with such vague infos?
Fact is, that crisans racket was not compliant with the rules. And it was obviously not the first time, that crisan tryes to win with unsportsmanlike acting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kalin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:18pm
I think if Boll would have played with a racket covering which was too thick, he also would have been disqualified. One has to assume that a  referee is impartial @ crs2 Do you have inside information regarding the thickness of the sponge of Timo Boll blade?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyrilix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:45pm
I, for one, would like to see some real evidence and clarification from either side. It seems like that's seriously missing (or we just don't know about it) in this matter. This wouldn't be so controversial if it weren't for the fact that Boll lost, and now he gets a free ride. Also, I'm not sure if the ittf linked news article is any proof. It doesn't seem to be written in a very clear and serious manner. Rather, it seems to be written like any blog would be written (as with most ittf articles), with claims but no substance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 77g33k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:


...

Since you seem to have some info from Romania, perhaps you can help us make sense of the situation. So far it all seems very confusing! Was the 4.04 the result of the pre-match test or the post-match test?

Here's how things may have happened:
- Crisan's primary racket failed the pre-match test; he then submitted another paddle (apparently Cioti's?), which passed the test. This second racket was cleared for use in the match (and brought to the table by the umpire??).
- Crisan told Boll that he would rather default the match than play it with Cioti's racket
- Crisan then reglued his primary racket, took off the old glue layers to bring the thickness down. Did he then also have this racket retested, and it came out as 3.88mm?? But do the rules allow a player to reglue a racket that has failed a test?
- Somehow Crisan managed to play with his primary racket (the one he reglued) instead of the one that the umpires had initially approved (Cioti's apparently). Boll was aware of this but just went ahead and played the match anyway. But why was the switch not noticed by the umpire?
- After the match Crisan's racket (the one he used during the match) was tested and turned out to be illegal.


...



This chain of event could never happen. There are so many parts in the chain that is very unlikely to happen and could have been easily verified if it occurred but none came to light so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote varghesep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2008 at 11:05pm
These guys keep many paddles in their bag. I have seen they can't organize well between matches - they just run between buildings to buildings and table to tables. They rush and sometimes comes late to the table. It may be one of those cases where the player has picked up a wrong paddle in a hurry.
 
What happened at the US Open is not something acceptable.
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