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Hexer Impressions - LONG!!

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silverhair View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/14/2009 at 10:11pm

I'm not sure I feel at all comfortable starting this thread with the following observations.  I don't think I've gotten everything out of Hexer that is has to offer.  Please no flames. 

That said, I'll just jump into it.


Initial impression is that it is very heavy.  As heavy or heavier than Tenergy 05.  Even on the relatively lightweight Donic Waldner Dotec Hinoki, the rubber definitely had serious weight.  

I allowed the rubber to outgas and air out on the racket for two days before putting it in the case and heading for the club.


First impressions from an earlier thread:   


Background:  Generally, I play an allround game, close-in to two steps back for competition, block counterhit, loop.  Heavy reliance on serves, placement and countering.  I have good fundamental skills, hit / play at around 1600 - 1700 US rating.  I really enjoy hitting mid-court counter-loops and do so with very good consistency and power against much better players.  That's what I do most of the time.  I don't play tourneys much, so I'll just have to estimate my rating based on who I typically play at an equal level.  I'm saying this only to help place my skill level and playing style in the context of my comments.

The following are early observations, I've barely had adequate time to adjust to this rubber.  It was just not something I could pick up and get the most from in a couple of hours.   

It seems like everyone wants to focus on a comparison between Hexer and Tenergy [place your number here].  Again, Hexer feels every bit as heavy as Tenergy 05.  That's about as much as Tenergy 05 is equal to Hexer.  Hexer is, in my opinion, and in every way, superior to Tenergy 05.  Tenergy feels harder but does not seem faster.  

Now on to the review of Hexer....

The first half-hour was difficult and frustrating coming from softer rubbers (F3 Big Slam max and Palio CJ8000c on Butter sponge).  I slowed down a bit to get a better feel and was rewarded with greater consistency.  After that, I was able to speed up again with more consistency and control.  It is at that point where I will start my observations.

Hexer has a fairly high throw.  Not is high as Tenergy 05 (at least in close, nearly the same as T-05 off the table), but higher than the F3 Big Slam which was a little higher than the CJ8000/Butter combo.  Hexer feels a little softer than T-05.

Hexer seems to play well short and over the table.  Better control, as fast, spinnier than T-05.  Returns serves well, serves are spinny.  Brush loops are easy to lift, very spinny, hard to block, harder to hit, fairly easy to place deep.  At least as good, if not better, than Tenergy with better control.  Fast loops are easily executed, but it took a while to gain consistency.  Neither Hexer nor T-05 have the good touch or feel like F3 Big Slam or the CJ/Butter combo.  The very short game isn't too good with Hexer.  Not as easily controlled as F3 Big Slam.  I didn't get quite the feel or timing for consistent flips on the Dotec Hinoki.   

Taking a step back, Hexer seems to deliver very good speed and spin on off-table loops and drives.  Its harder than I prefer, but had decent control.  Spin was quite a bit better than T-05, seemed to be a little better than what I usually generate using Big Slam.  Control wasn't as good as Big Slam, but I hardly expect it to be considering how hard it is.  Chops in close and to mid-court were not too bad.  Not all over the place like what I experienced with Tenergy 05. 

Usually mid-court looping and counterhitting is, IMO, better controlled with softer rubber.  That said, mid-court looping with Hexer is as good as I've played with any rubber that is as hard it is.  Really excellent spin.  Sidespin loops just skid across the top of the table with good pace.  Ball is relatively easy to place.  T-05 isn't in the same league with Hexer in mid-court play (too hard?).  But Hexer doesn't have the control from mid-court as softer rubbers, particularly F3 Big Slam.  IMO, F3 Big Slam is about as good as it gets for that.  Chopping from mid-court is unexpectedly good with Hexer.  Ball floats up nicely and drops onto the table with plenty of spin.

Deep court is unknown.  I just don't live back there.

After hitting with Hexer for about 1 1/2 hours, I seemed to play practice matches almost as well as I do with my "regular" rubber.  But I also seemed to be holding back rather than playing my typical game.  More conservative, more tentative.  I'm just not comfortable with Hexer.  Maybe that will improve with time.  [It didn't.]


That's what I have for now.  More in the future as I get more time and try different blades.  Just as a casual observation, I don't think I'd be happy with Hexer on a faster blade.  But that's just me.  YMMV.



The following comments are after a few more sessions of play.  

I've decded that Hexer is NOT a good match for me on the Dotec Hinoki.  I pulled it off and glued it onto the Donic Dima Sawtec.  Its a solid ALL+ blade with very good control and feel.  Its really one of my all-time favorite blades and has had a very wide variety of rubbers on it.  The Hexer was glued on three hours before I played, but I ONLY put glue on the blade, not the rubber (plenty of residual glue on the rubber already). 

My first impression was "WOW, this is a MUCH better match for Hexer than the faster blade!"  And I still think it is.  Much better control, the blade helped provide better dwell time resulting in more control and better spin than on the three-ply Dotec Hinoki.  Ball speed was the same (technique dependent).  Close game was much better on the Dima, MUCH BETTER than the T-05 on the same blade.  The rubber was still fast, but was better controlled on the slower blade.  It definitely brought out a lot of potential from the Dima Sawtec.  

Mid-court play was more consistent: looping and hitting were still good, but the rubber is still a little too hard for my tastes from mid-court.  Some others trying the combo from mid-court felt the same.  

During a match against a player in the mid-1700s, I thought I lost a few points due to a lack of control in the close-in / short game.  I didn't win any points due to any special qualities of Hexer except for maybe one heroic shot from mid-court (mostly just reflexes with a heavy dose of blind-ass luck).   


After an hour or so playing Hexer on the Dima, I switched to F3 Big Slam on the Dotec Hinoki to compare.  That was MUCH better.  Even though the combination was almost as fast, I had significantly better control and, according to my hitting partner, as much spin as Hexer.  And the Big Slam is approaching end-of-life.  Shots were about as speedy, but more consistent with the soft Big Slam.  I played better in all aspect of the game with the Big Slam on the faster blade than the Hexer on the slower blade.  

I did not glue Hexer onto the Yasaka one-ply hinoki.  I don't have the skill to control that combo.  Further, the weight of that combo would have been prohibitively high, too much so to execute good strokes.   


OK, so here's my bottom line....

Weight is a factor.  This rubber is heavy.  I felt like hand speed suffered because of weight.  I could live with Hexer, but my game would suffer maybe 2 - 3 points per game, maybe 50 - 75 rating points.  My personal preference of for softer rubber, equipment with more control. 



Players that really want fast rubber, have sound fundamentals and good control might want to try Hexer as an alternative to Tenergy 05.  IMO, Hexer plays as well or better close in and much better off the table than Tenergy 05.  IMO, the better match for this rubber is a very light solid ALL to ALL+ blade to give the combo more dwell time and control.   


I'm going to start passing this sheet of Hexer around to other players in the club to get their opinions.  I'll report back any interesting observations.   

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumpernets19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2009 at 11:47pm

+2!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2009 at 12:19am
Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:



I allowed the rubber to outgas and air out on the racket for two days before putting it in the case and heading for the club.




Does this mean you glued it with a speed glue or rubber cement? If so what did you use and did it affect the speed glue effect rubber in any way? (tearing, bubleing, anything bad)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2009 at 12:29am
silverhair dont do Water Glue Yo!   LOL

I believe he uses Elmers RC. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lildudejds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2009 at 1:20am
Silverhair, any chance I could get ahold of that Hexer to try? Is it max thickness?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2009 at 2:15am
Originally posted by lildudejds lildudejds wrote:

Silverhair, any chance I could get ahold of that Hexer to try? Is it max thickness?


Yes, it's max (2.1).  I see no reason why you couldn't give it a try.  It's just a matter of local logistics.  (I live on the "East Side")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2009 at 2:18am
Originally posted by Reinecke Reinecke wrote:

Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:



I allowed the rubber to outgas and air out on the racket for two days before putting it in the case and heading for the club.




Does this mean you glued it with a speed glue or rubber cement? If so what did you use and did it affect the speed glue effect rubber in any way? (tearing, bubleing, anything bad)


I use good ol' Elmer's Wrinkle-Free Rubber Cement.  The VOC kind.  I don't use no steenkin water anywhere near my blade.

When I initially glued the sheet of Hexer, it did dome a little.  I let it dry before attaching it to the blade.

No tearing, bubbling.  No drips, no runs, no errors.  No funny rippling.  No tooth decay.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 1:52am
i agree with silverhair's observation from one perspective. a player who is increasingly comfortable playing softer rubbers with prolly less grippy topsheet.

coming from the 729,999, higher3, tenergy, bw2 clan however, my perspective is different but observation is still the same it does more things better than tenergy 05 than not.

thanks for the very nice review silverhair

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 1:58am
Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:

Originally posted by lildudejds lildudejds wrote:

Silverhair, any chance I could get ahold of that Hexer to try? Is it max thickness?


Yes, it's max (2.1).  I see no reason why you couldn't give it a try.  It's just a matter of local logistics.  (I live on the "East Side")
 
Careful now. Let's not start a rap war.
 
I got to hit with hexer on a TBZLC a while back, with Nianmor on the other side. I remember being more impressed with nianmor though. Then again, after 10 minutes of play, I'm sure that view could be skewed a little
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 8:45am
I personally found Hexer a better fit for an Off blade than an All blade myself, but if you like Big Slam, you probably wont like many of the new rubbers as they tend to be hard and fast with a lot less dwell. It took me forever to adjust from Jo Platin to other things, infact I still feel more comfortable with it in looping. The dwell time is a hard thing to get over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myttus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 9:11am
Good review.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 9:21am
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

I personally found Hexer a better fit for an Off blade than an All blade myself, but if you like Big Slam, you probably wont like many of the new rubbers as they tend to be hard and fast with a lot less dwell. It took me forever to adjust from Jo Platin to other things, infact I still feel more comfortable with it in looping. The dwell time is a hard thing to get over.


LOL, agreed.  And most likely the reason for my return to softer rubber.

IMO, it was easier to adjust to Hexer than Tenergy, particularly off the table.  I didn't have many control problems with Hexer, but I found myself playing more tentatively and hitting a little less consistently with Hexer than Big Slam.  As I said, I could live with Hexer but I prefer Big Slam.  I like the longer dwell time and feel more than the harder sponge rubbers. 

From my perspective, Hexer was an interesting experiment. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 10:33am
silverhair... imo while you can adjust and play with hexer pretty quick ...due to its playability you cannot adjust confidently to hexer that quick. the loops becomes vulnerable because you are not 100% tuned to the exact timing and predictability of the power and spin delivery.

if you play with hexer for 10 hours...your vulnerability may change. personally i found just the opposite in hexer. it is so bloody predictable.. that i can use my full strength swing without a bit of worry about whether it will land.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 11:26am
Could be.  I stopped at about 10 hours.  Maybe I'll extend that a little more.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 4:58pm
Well, then i'm not sure.

because 10 hours is a lot of play time. i mean if that is 10 hours of pure play and not just being in the club ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 7:10pm
Probably an honest 8 hours.  10 at the club.  But I feel like I had made an adequate adjustment to the rubber.  Maybe I have developed a technique and style of play (over the past 40 or so years) that just works the best with a softer rubber.  I didn't really have "trouble" playing with Hexer.  I was reasonably consistent, shots were spinny with good pace.  It's more a matter of my personal preferences. 

As I said, I could live with Hexer.  Its just not my style. 

BTW, I could not live with T-05.  It loses too much off the table.  And I like to take a step or two or three back from time to time.  Tenergy 05 just doesn't do well enough in that scenario for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dauntless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2009 at 11:00pm
I'll chime in here.
I have Hexer glued up with Nittaku finezip. Haven't hit with it because my venue is getting resurfaced. Looking to play tonight...but so far can't compare...

What I can say about harder vs. softer rubbers for me (as a general rule) is this:

Softer rubbers(especially tensors) are great for controlled looping and still have plenty of snap when you need it. I played with Andro Impuls Speed for a year on an ALL+ blade that I really loved. As I built upon my technique, I found myself finding the softer Andro rubber a bit weak from mid -distance. Also, I found that I was getting less control in the short game as compared to medium and firmer sponged rubbers (i.e. Sriver EL on up to like Outlaw and even some hard sticky Chinese rubbers)

There was a stroke adjustment period that was longer than 10 hours IHMO. Brush looping was also difficult with the super soft stuff. Not soft like Mark V (which I think is like medium soft) I am talking about the lower density stuff like Big Slam and Andro Impuls Speed.

For me I need a bit firmer sponge and I think it is a personal thing. I will say in defense of Silverhair's F3 BS that I personally played against a 2200 rated player using it on a Donic Appelgren Allplay V2 and he was one of the most lethal players I have played. Each loop was dedicated just for you, no cookie cutter loops. Each one had a different "signature" and was controlled with different levels of spin and he was able to disguise this with ease. The only thing I would suggest a weakness of Bigslam could be is penetrating power. But in a game of placement over power, penetrating power only goes so far I will also say that once a player adjust to a great rubber like bigslam, it is going to be hard to give a truly unbiased review unless there is a longer period of adjustment. (no offense Silverhair, you may disagree with this, it is in no way meant to offend though, just my opinion)

I am still bummed that Hexer is brand new on my blade!!! Once I have hit with it, I will chime in and give another review. While I can't comment on it against Ten 05, I will be able to compare against rubbers others have used like Roxon 450, Energy GP, Outlaw, Refoma, Mark V and others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2009 at 12:26am
I've got no problem with your comments.  You're probably right.  Its a hard transition from Big Slam.  That said, I do play around with other rubbers, but eventually come back.  I did like the Hexer.  Nothing's perfect.

Good luck with the Hexer.  I hope its a good fit for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ironman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2009 at 9:44am
I had a hit with Andro Hexer 2.1mm on both FH and BH for the first time today.
The blade is a Hybrid Wood (82gr=not heavy one. Normally 95-100gr)
I have used 2,2mm Boost TX on FH and 2.0mm Boost TX on BH for 5 months before this session. I have felt some small problems with the control on that setup.
It is a softer and slower but spinnier rubber than Boost TX.
I really liked it against my opponent today. Liked the control in the fast speed part of the game and the spin on slow controlled strokes.
I usually play third ball two wing attack close to the table or a few feet back. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dauntless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2009 at 2:33pm
OK. I got to hit with it last night against a training partner that is way beneath me "rating" wise. So I could not get an honest feel for it.

I am going to write an OOAK style review, but for now my first impressions are that I like it, but control wise is slightly unpredictable. From mid distance loops are pretty spectacular. The sound is there. No pop ups, not one during short game.

I was playing Mark V on the other side. Quite a bit more bouncy and speedy than Mark V (unglued). Short game was v. good but not as much touch as Mark V (obviously, but that is from extra speed and tension...)
Had some strange stuff happening like three times on off speed underspin while trying to flip over the table, either my technique with this rubber needs adjusting (likely) or the rubber is so tensioned that if you don't make some sort of active block or some serious movement on your upwards stroke on flips... then it just reacts to the spin (very likely). Over all these were few compared to the number of successful super sinking loops. Still a nice trade off at this point. For FH this rubber holds some promise.
Anyway, I can't really give a fair comparison at this point, but I am trying to get a coaching session in the next few days and then do a proper review.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ironman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2009 at 5:59pm

The second try with Hexer and first at the club was not good at all.

 

I thought it was going to be easy to change rubber after the first session.

I feel  that it is much to change from a really fast medium hard sponge with normal good rubber grip (Boost TX) to a slower and much softer sponge with real good rubber grip (Hexer).

 

The control I felt from the first time was gone in service returns and spinny opening shots...and other parts.  I also miss the speed from Boost TX

I should try it more times to learn the rubber better but I dont have the time for a while now.

 

This will lead to that I will give my previous backup blade with Boost TX 2.0mm and Clipper CR another go. And that could be a good thing J

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2009 at 8:09pm
A couple of friends of mine tried Hexer last evening.  Both mid-court loopers.  One player is ~ 1850s, the other ~ 2100.  The both liked it a lot, both will probably switch to Hexer.   

The sheet is now in the possession of lildude.  I look forward to his comments.  I told him not to hurry, no rush.  He's got the team championships coming up next week.


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