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Schlager playing in a garage
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Pushblocker View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12/29/2009 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by JimT

Agreed - it is not enough to formulate the strategy, you need to have the chops to properly execute it. There are for instance 1600-level players who mentally understand what needs to be done when playing a 2100-level LP chopper but simply cannot do that due to lack of skill.

And since you, my friend, do attack on occasion, that only makes you more dangerous! Clap

As for Larry - I played him a few times (he is a fellow Massachusettsian... is that a word?), and he is very very consistent. He should be - he has been playing like this for more than 30 years by now.

The last time I played him at an official tournament I was in the zone and I was up 10-7 in the fourth (up 2-1 in sets) and then managed to lose. He has been slipping a bit lately...
Larry is going up and down.. He got into 2200's a little earlier this year but dropped again to his lowest level.. He used to be 2400 and still has the 2400 strokes but his athleticism due to his weight is not what it used to be.. He likes to eat.. and so do I.. I also should be 30 lbs lighter...
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What setup was Werner using when playing in the garage?
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Originally posted by pongcrazy

What setup was Werner using when playing in the garage?
 
Schlager Carbon blade (with thinner inner ply like the Primorac Carbon) and Tenergy 05 on both sides..
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Originally posted by pongcrazy

What setup was Werner using when playing in the garage?
Halex from Dick's Sporting goods :)
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Originally posted by melarimsa

Originally posted by pongcrazy

What setup was Werner using when playing in the garage?
Halex from Dick's Sporting goods :)
 
Don't forget, Werner is sponsored by Butterfly.. So, whenever he uses a pre-made paddle, he'll use this one LOL
 
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fascinating
 
world class player against 2300 player is like watching a 2000+ player v a basement player.
 
I always wondered how that would look... and here we are.
 
 
 
 
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Originally posted by melarimsa

Originally posted by pongcrazy

What setup was Werner using when playing in the garage?
Halex from Dick's Sporting goods :)


Certainly a Halex.  But with Tenergy 05 of both sides.  LOL  LOL


What if there were no hypothetical questions?
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Long pips players are the ones being able to generate the biggest upsets. Assuming quite passive LP style, it all boils down to opponents capability of reading spin of a ball coming from the pips correctly. If the opponent has little or no practice against long pips he may loose to LP player ranked much lower - the opposite is also true: player with lots of practice against long pips may be able to win with a junk rubber player who is rated much higher. Practice is what counts - theory is not enough since you need to break habits.
The ranking of a LP player is determined (in big part) by the familiarity of the style to his opponents. This familiarity is very low even at the high-amateur US level. The higher the rating goes the familiarity becomes much greater and all weaknesses of a LP player are being exploited.
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Posts: 1155 		Post Options Post Options   Quote TBS9x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker

Originally posted by TBS9x



Hehe, I would want to have Schlager or Joo to be my high school friend Tongue After I watch your vid against Schlager and against other 2000+ USATT players, I can see your weakness now. Of course Schlager is much much better than the other players so you lost thats normal. But you seem to be vulnerable to long no spin serves + you are also vulnerable against hard loop not slow spinny loops. The last thing is that they can win you by attacking both sides since your footwork is pretty bad ( no offence but just being honest ) and you dont have fh strokes so ye... you should practice a fh stroke Wink
 
Many players KNOW what to do against my style but can't execute it. Try serving fast and spinless with a grippy inverted rubber.. I can guarantee you that most sub 2100 players will not be able to produce a fast, spinless serve.. Sure, they can give me low spin but only very few players will be able to execute such serve successfully. My placement on my return is also often pretty good.. I usually catch most opponents at their weaker side when returning serves. As for my footwork.. What footwork???
The problem with my forehand is that I'm in a very backhand oriented position and I'd have to turn 180 degrees to play forehand.. I can rally in warm up for a very long time on the forehand and even power-loop but my lack of footwork and my extreme backhand position make it difficult to play forehand.


That is very true. I think most players even young players like me who play not only for fun will know that when playing against pip players, you shouldn't serve with lot of spin, serve long no spin and smash,etc. But when you have to actually do it, it's hard. To win a LP blocker/chopper ( chopper is a littler harder I think if it's some one like Joo Se Hyuk => even Schlager himself lost against Joo few months ago ), you need to practice a lot against that type of player, theory is an important part but practice is even more important.
@Pushblocker: I dont know how USATT ratings work and you deserve your ratings or not but I'm sure that if I play against you I will have a big chance to lose and most others will also suffer like me LOL This is one odd style Wink
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Posts: 239 		Post Options Post Options   Quote le xex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 4:31pm
@pushblocker: if you were to play with inverted both sides what would you estimate your rating to be?
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@pushblocker: if you were to play with inverted both sides what would you estimate your rating to be?



I think he will be around 500...  Big%20smile

But then, that's not a fair question, is it?  No one is not required to master inverted rubber play before learning how to block with long pips...  What will your rating be if you were to use Pushblocker's equipment?   LOL
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Posts: 1402 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker

 
Again, it's easy to talk about the strategy but for many players, it's difficult to execute it.. Played against a player with excellent strategy at the Teams (one of the 2 results that are missing). The player did the right thing and played it safe, waiting for the right shot.. However, he played it too safe and I made about 8 points per game attacking. If the opponent plays it slow enough, I will attack as I will have to get in position for my attacks and I'll kill the ball.. I smack the ball so hard that once I attack, the ball hardly ever comes back.


This is very interesting. I see your videos are all against high-rated attackers. Do you have any videos of you playing defenders?
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Posts: 3218 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by roundrobin



   @pushblocker: if you were to play with inverted both sides what would you estimate your rating to be?I think he will be around 500...  Big%20smileBut then, that's not a fair question, is it?  No one is not required to master inverted rubber play before learning how to block with long pips...  What will your rating be if you were to use Pushblocker's equipment?   LOL


Good answer Roundrobin

A guy who have dedicated his entire game to master the LP block will probably not be very good with inverted rubbers.

A funny thing about this style is the upsets it can cause, because this style can beat players who are rated way higher, but they can also lose to lower rated players who actually knows how to deal with this style. Also, when playing against players who knows how to play against this style, it is really hard for the blocker to look good, while a looper can be eaten alive, but still look good against a better looper.
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funny to see a worldclass player playing in a garage, schlager seems to be a very grounded person.

what leagues did you play back in austria (plus a compare to germany if possible) ?

arent long pips that much used in the US?
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Posts: 3032 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 8:50pm
Cool.......makes me want to delve into the dark side......just for a taste!  haaa   I would like to try some LP's and block like that......

Thanks for sharring!    Let me know when you drain your indoor pool...Id love to skate it before you fill it in!
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Posts: 863 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by TBS9x


@Pushblocker: I dont know how USATT ratings work and you deserve your ratings or not but I'm sure that if I play against you I will have a big chance to lose and most others will also suffer like me LOL This is one odd style Wink
USATT ratings are based on your record against other players.. If you beat someone much higher rated than you, you'll win a lot of points and the opponent loses a lot.. If you beat someone near your rating, you'll gain a few points and if you lose, you lose a few.. It's not 100% accurate but you get some idea of somebody's level. If you are more familiar with for example the german league system.. German Landesliga/Verbandsliga players are usually in the 2100 - 2200 range..  (at least those german Landesliga players with a USATT rating), Oberliga is about 2200 - 2500+, Regionalliga is about 2350 - 2700, 2. Bundesliga is about 2550 -  2800 and 1. Bundesliga is about 2600 - 2900 level.. The Landesliga/Verbandslige level depends a lot of the german state.. Sure, there are sometimes players of better level or weaker level but the average Landesliga player in germany usually acquires a 2100 rating when playing in the US.. I don't know any Landesliga player with a rating much higher than 2200 (which doesn't mean that there is none)
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Originally posted by le xex

@pushblocker: if you were to play with inverted both sides what would you estimate your rating to be?
The best player that I've ever beaten with both sides inverted was about 1800 and I only won because of my serves..  The highest rating that I could probably compete at with inverted would probably average in the 1600's.. It really doesn't matter what level I'd play with inverted as my playing style is not set up for inverted.. What would your level be if you'd use anti on both sides? Where would  Wang Hao be if he'd play long pips on both sides?? I'm sure that he wouldn't even be in the top 100 in the world but he is #1 with his rubbers.. There are appropriate rubbers for each style.
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Posts: 863 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA

Originally posted by Pushblocker

 
Again, it's easy to talk about the strategy but for many players, it's difficult to execute it.. Played against a player with excellent strategy at the Teams (one of the 2 results that are missing). The player did the right thing and played it safe, waiting for the right shot.. However, he played it too safe and I made about 8 points per game attacking. If the opponent plays it slow enough, I will attack as I will have to get in position for my attacks and I'll kill the ball.. I smack the ball so hard that once I attack, the ball hardly ever comes back.


This is very interesting. I see your videos are all against high-rated attackers. Do you have any videos of you playing defenders?
Check the video against Bogeyhunter.. He beat me 3:1.. Attacking choppers give my trouble.. However,  I usualy beat classic defenders.. Beat a 2130 rated chopper this year at the US Open Warm Up tournament in June (Elman Concepcion).. However, I've lost 3 times against Werner Stollenmeier who plays classical defense but he usually beats me attacking.. If he chops and pushes, I win..
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Posts: 863 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by stepheN

funny to see a worldclass player playing in a garage, schlager seems to be a very grounded person.

what leagues did you play back in austria (plus a compare to germany if possible) ?

arent long pips that much used in the US?
I used to play 3. Klasse (4th highest league in Vienna of 17 leagues). When I came to the US, my initial rating was 1881.. So, I'd say that 1800's is about the same as 3. Klasse in Vienna.  Since then, I improved my game and strategy a lot and I'm now rated in the 2200's, which is about 3 - 4 classes higher, so I should be either a weaker Landesliga player or a strong 1. Klasse player in Vienna..
In germany, my level should be a solid Landesliga player in most states.. I'm sure that in some of the stronger states, I might be somewhere at the bottom if I'd play Landesliga..
Fact is that just about all Landesliga players with a USATT rating are rated in the 2100's. The latest player who played a tournament in the US was Christoph Haeusler who is a solid Landesliga player in Germany and he has a low 2100 rating..
My current rating puts me in the top 3.5% of all players in the country..
 
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Posts: 863 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Rich215

Cool.......makes me want to delve into the dark side......just for a taste!  haaa   I would like to try some LP's and block like that......

Thanks for sharring!    Let me know when you drain your indoor pool...Id love to skate it before you fill it in!

Indoor pool is drained but not filled yet.. Haven't made up my mind if I'll fill it in or fix it.. Whenever I get the estimate on how much to fix it, I'll decide what I'll do..
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Seeing Schlager play in that garage is like seeing a dog walk on it's hind legs. lol
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z83gvo6iG3o
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Originally posted by bogeyhunter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z83gvo6iG3o


I have to say after watching that vid, those forehand serves look pretty blatantly under arm there. Looking from both sides of the table him serving, 95% sure it was hidden there.
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Originally posted by bogeyhunter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z83gvo6iG3o


Wow!  Play THAT guy must get monotonous.
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Posts: 3032 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker

Originally posted by Rich215

Cool.......makes me want to delve into the dark side......just for a taste!  haaa   I would like to try some LP's and block like that......

Thanks for sharring!    Let me know when you drain your indoor pool...Id love to skate it before you fill it in!

Indoor pool is drained but not filled yet.. Haven't made up my mind if I'll fill it in or fix it.. Whenever I get the estimate on how much to fix it, I'll decide what I'll do..


Can you show a pic of it ....deep end curves area at bottom...and close up of the coping would be nice.   If local vert skaters saw that thing...they would be over there right now..haaaaa   


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Originally posted by TT over Study

Originally posted by qynthnghm

However, I will retract my earlier statement, he most likely would beat me because I've only played against one LP user ever
 
ill go 1 step further and say he will definitely beat you
 
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Posts: 1050 		Post Options Post Options   Quote qynthnghm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2009 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by TT over Study

Originally posted by qynthnghm

However, I will retract my earlier statement, he most likely would beat me because I've only played against one LP user ever


 

ill go 1 step further and say he will definitely beat you


Ha, you're hype.
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Originally posted by qynthnghm

Originally posted by TT over Study

Originally posted by qynthnghm

However, I will retract my earlier statement, he most likely would beat me because I've only played against one LP user ever


 

ill go 1 step further and say he will definitely beat you


Ha, you're hype.


If pushblocker is an over 2200 player and you haven't played his specific kind of long pips defense, he probably has the edge in a match.  It's only when a player has an opportunity to play against a specific player a few times do the vulnerabilities and how to exploit them.  


What if there were no hypothetical questions?
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Posts: 1050 		Post Options Post Options   Quote qynthnghm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 12:23am
Originally posted by silverhair


Originally posted by qynthnghm

Originally posted by TT over Study

Originally posted by qynthnghm

However, I will retract my earlier statement, he most likely would beat me because I've only played against one LP user ever


 

ill go 1 step further and say he will definitely beat you


Ha, you're hype.
If pushblocker is an over 2200 player and you haven't played his specific kind of long pips defense, he probably has the edge in a match.  It's only when a player has an opportunity to play against a specific player a few times do the vulnerabilities and how to exploit them.  


You're absolutely right, Silverhair. And I have already acknowledged my disadvantage in a previous post. TT over Study was just yanking my chain, that or antagonizing me.
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Posts: 1478 		Post Options Post Options   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 12:26am
Originally posted by qynthnghm

Originally posted by silverhair


Originally posted by qynthnghm

Originally posted by TT over Study

Originally posted by qynthnghm

However, I will retract my earlier statement, he most likely would beat me because I've only played against one LP user ever


 

ill go 1 step further and say he will definitely beat you


Ha, you're hype.
If pushblocker is an over 2200 player and you haven't played his specific kind of long pips defense, he probably has the edge in a match.  It's only when a player has an opportunity to play against a specific player a few times do the vulnerabilities and how to exploit them.  


You're absolutely right, Silverhair. And I have already acknowledged my disadvantage in a previous post. TT over Study was just yanking my chain, that or antagonizing me.


Oh nobody EVER does that on THIS forum!   LOL  LOL  LOL 

I make it a point to play against long pips from time to time just to make sure I think during a point.  I suggest that you find one just to help sharpen your skills against that kind of hardware. 



What if there were no hypothetical questions?
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