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Schlager playing in a garage

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 12:28am
Thanks a lot, this is a great video. Anything from Schlager is good, he is the best one, the smartest player and his style is so unique.
Thanks again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qynthnghm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 12:35am
Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:


Oh nobody EVER does that on THIS forum!   LOL  LOL  LOL  I make it a point to play against long pips from time to time just to make sure I think during a point.  I suggest that you find one just to help sharpen your skills against that kind of hardware. 


Mmhmm. I have a friend who plays modern defensive and often experiments with all kinds of LP's and SP's on his backhand. Out of all the friends that I play, I find that his style gives me the most trouble. I suppose it's a positive thing since it forces me to change strategies. Playing blockers can be frustrating, I used to be one myself. One-sided Cpen with 802-40. But I was tired of giving dead balls and not to mention cracking them as well, and switched to inverted because I wanted to enjoy the game more by trying to keep it in play longer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 12:41am
Schlager is a former world champ, that would put him somewhere around 2700 usatt (correct me if i'm wrong)..
so it's a 500 rating point difference there. Now think of you rating than imagine you were playing someone that is solid 500 rating points higher than you.. then you'll get the picture..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 12:50am
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Schlager is a former world champ, that would put him somewhere around 2700 usatt..


2700? Yeah freakin-a right. His rating central rating is 2957. Lupulesku, who has played a lot internationally, is rated 2714 on there and 2780 on USATT ratings. Eric Owens is a 2604 on Rating Central and a 2591 in USATT. Schlager would be a hell of a lot higher rated than 2700. Infact he does have a USATT rating leftover from the pro tours and it's 2840, which is within a few points of the ratings they gave, in 2004, to Waldner, Samsanov, etc. Ryu's is 2800 something. But their ratings are scewed because on our system, since we don't have really high level players, they can't just come in and in 3 or 4 US Open's, get a rating that's realistic for them, because most foreign pros don't have a rating and the US players only go up so high, so they can only be rated as high as the people who commonly play in the USATT tournament, which only go up to around 2700-2800 at the tops, so thats the highest possible cap really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7plywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 12:53am
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Schlager is a former world champ, that would put him somewhere around 2700 usatt (correct me if i'm wrong)..

Since Ilija Lupulesku is 2780 USATT (I just looked it up) and I can't imagine Schlager loosing a single game to him, there must be at least 200 point difference between Ilija and Werner. That would put Schlager probably above 3000 USATT level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 1:04am
Seee... LOL
now instead of 500, imagine 800 rating points.. so if you are, say 1600, imagine you were playing a 2400 solid usatt player.. the higher the rating, the harder it getss..
see the picture now? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 1:11am

Originally posted by qynthnghm qynthnghm wrote:

Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:


Oh nobody EVER does that on THIS forum!   LOL  LOL  LOL  I make it a point to play against long pips from time to time just to make sure I think during a point.  I suggest that you find one just to help sharpen your skills against that kind of hardware. 


Mmhmm. I have a friend who plays modern defensive and often experiments with all kinds of LP's and SP's on his backhand. Out of all the friends that I play, I find that his style gives me the most trouble. I suppose it's a positive thing since it forces me to change strategies. Playing blockers can be frustrating, I used to be one myself. One-sided Cpen with 802-40. But I was tired of giving dead balls and not to mention cracking them as well, and switched to inverted because I wanted to enjoy the game more by trying to keep it in play longer.



That's a very positive characteristic.  Playing against long pips is definitely an acquired skill.  Everything else being equal, I've found that it takes a lot of patience and smart play to keep up with a long pips player.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 7:55am
Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:

Cool.......makes me want to delve into the dark side......just for a taste!  haaa   I would like to try some LP's and block like that......

Thanks for sharring!    Let me know when you drain your indoor pool...Id love to skate it before you fill it in!

Indoor pool is drained but not filled yet.. Haven't made up my mind if I'll fill it in or fix it.. Whenever I get the estimate on how much to fix it, I'll decide what I'll do..


Can you show a pic of it ....deep end curves area at bottom...and close up of the coping would be nice.   If local vert skaters saw that thing...they would be over there right now..haaaaa   


Don't have a current (completely drained) pic.. Here's the pic where it still had a little bit of water..
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 7:58am
Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:

Originally posted by qynthnghm qynthnghm wrote:

Originally posted by TT over Study TT over Study wrote:

Originally posted by qynthnghm qynthnghm wrote:

However, I will retract my earlier statement, he most likely would beat me because I've only played against one LP user ever


 

ill go 1 step further and say he will definitely beat you



Ha, you're hype.


If pushblocker is an over 2200 player and you haven't played his specific kind of long pips defense, he probably has the edge in a match.  It's only when a player has an opportunity to play against a specific player a few times do the vulnerabilities and how to exploit them.  

 

If this is true, the players at the clubs that I play should have all started to beat me.. I rarely lose to players with both sides inverted below 2100.. Sure, bogeyhunter kicks my azz but only because he plays long pips and often gives me dead balls and I my control is much lower against dead balls.(He is also over 2200 rated right now) I need my opponents spin to have control as I don't produce spin myself... It's EXTREMELY difficult to produce dead balls with spinny rubbers.. Even if you try to produce a dead ball, there will be some spin that I can use against my opponents...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 8:03am
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Schlager is a former world champ, that would put him somewhere around 2700 usatt (correct me if i'm wrong)..
so it's a 500 rating point difference there. Now think of you rating than imagine you were playing someone that is solid 500 rating points higher than you.. then you'll get the picture..
 
Schlagers rating is 2829 which makes it 620 points higher than mine...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:



If pushblocker is an over 2200 player and you haven't played his specific kind of long pips defense, he probably has the edge in a match.  It's only when a player has an opportunity to play against a specific player a few times do the vulnerabilities and how to exploit them.  

 

If this is true, the players at the clubs that I play should have all started to beat me.. I rarely lose to players with both sides inverted below 2100.. Sure, bogeyhunter kicks my azz but only because he plays long pips and often gives me dead balls and I my control is much lower against dead balls.(He is also over 2200 rated right now) I need my opponents spin to have control as I don't produce spin myself... It's EXTREMELY difficult to produce dead balls with spinny rubbers.. Even if you try to produce a dead ball, there will be some spin that I can use against my opponents...




I didn't say they were going to beat you, I just said they would discover vulnerabilities and how to exploit them.  It's then up to your opponent to see if they have the skill and "game" to pull that off.  There's a big difference between seeing what to do and actually doing it. 

The interesting characteristic of long pips is that the ball keeps spinning in the same direction after being hit by long pips.  So a loop with heavy topspin will be returned as a heavy chop.  When I said that players have to think a lot while playing against long pips, I meant that they really have to consider what kind of ball they are hitting and what spin will be returned.  My preference is to use an opening loop which will be returned with heavy chop and push the ball back to the long pips defender.  When that shot is returned, the ball typically has topspin that I can attack.  If the defender returns the ball, it will have backspin so I have to start the process all over again.  My only hope is that I can be more steady and consistent with my play then my opponent.  I also have to worry that the long pips player doesn't hit one of the backspin shots I send to them since it will be returned to me with topspin.

So playing with long pips forces a player to play smarter and improve their consistency.  Even then there's no guarantee of success. 

George Hendry plays with long pips and has caught many a player unaware for over 70 years.  In his late 80s, he still has a rating over 1800.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 10:47am
Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:



I didn't say they were going to beat you, I just said they would discover vulnerabilities and how to exploit them.  It's then up to your opponent to see if they have the skill and "game" to pull that off.  There's a big difference between seeing what to do and actually doing it. 

The interesting characteristic of long pips is that the ball keeps spinning in the same direction after being hit by long pips.  So a loop with heavy topspin will be returned as a heavy chop.  When I said that players have to think a lot while playing against long pips, I meant that they really have to consider what kind of ball they are hitting and what spin will be returned.  My preference is to use an opening loop which will be returned with heavy chop and push the ball back to the long pips defender.  When that shot is returned, the ball typically has topspin that I can attack.  If the defender returns the ball, it will have backspin so I have to start the process all over again.  My only hope is that I can be more steady and consistent with my play then my opponent.  I also have to worry that the long pips player doesn't hit one of the backspin shots I send to them since it will be returned to me with topspin.

So playing with long pips forces a player to play smarter and improve their consistency.  Even then there's no guarantee of success. 

George Hendry plays with long pips and has caught many a player unaware for over 70 years.  In his late 80s, he still has a rating over 1800.


Indeed, many players KNOW what to do against such styles but can't execute it, or don't have the patience.. I love opponents who lose their patience..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 10:52am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:



Indeed, many players KNOW what to do against such styles but can't execute it, or don't have the patience.. I love opponents who lose their patience..



But isn't that your game?  Smile 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 11:04am
Originally posted by silverhair silverhair wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:



Indeed, many players KNOW what to do against such styles but can't execute it, or don't have the patience.. I love opponents who lose their patience..



But isn't that your game?  Smile 


 
Exactly!! Smile
 
My game currently depends on my opponents mistakes. I don't beat my opponents. They beat themselves..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 11:05am
Originally posted by 7plywood 7plywood wrote:

Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Schlager is a former world champ, that would put him somewhere around 2700 usatt (correct me if i'm wrong)..

Since Ilija Lupulesku is 2780 USATT (I just looked it up) and I can't imagine Schlager loosing a single game to him, there must be at least 200 point difference between Ilija and Werner. That would put Schlager probably above 3000 USATT level.


I think only Kong Linghui and Wang Hao have USATT rating above 3000. I might be wrong. I would say Schlager is around 2900 USATT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2009 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by 7plywood 7plywood wrote:

Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Schlager is a former world champ, that would put him somewhere around 2700 usatt (correct me if i'm wrong)..

Since Ilija Lupulesku is 2780 USATT (I just looked it up) and I can't imagine Schlager loosing a single game to him, there must be at least 200 point difference between Ilija and Werner. That would put Schlager probably above 3000 USATT level.


I think only Kong Linghui and Wang Hao have USATT rating above 3000. I might be wrong. I would say Schlager is around 2900 USATT.


I think you're right.  Boll may also have a rating >= 3000. 

When a player reaches those stratospheric levels, it's hard to gain may points.  Even 2500 level players rarely move much unless they have monstrously great or poor tournaments.  And not all players have all of their matches submitted for ratings.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ganggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2009 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

What surprises me most in that video is the other guy claims to be 2207 US rating !!!



2207 right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/01/2010 at 1:22am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:


Originally posted by 7plywood 7plywood wrote:



Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:


Schlager is a former world champ, that would put him somewhere around 2700 usatt (correct me if i'm wrong)..
Since Ilija Lupulesku is 2780 USATT (I just looked it up) and I can't imagine Schlager loosing a single game to him, there must be at least 200 point difference between Ilija and Werner. That would put Schlager probably above 3000 USATT level.
I think only Kong Linghui and Wang Hao have USATT rating above 3000. I might be wrong. I would say Schlager is around 2900 USATT.
Kong's highest USATT rating was 2979 in 1995. The second highest was WLQ at 2927. Kim Taek Soo 2903, Ma Lin 2899, Kreanga 2971. All of these scores are however are at least 8 years old. To check the list, just go to the USATT ratings page and to to the Customizable Member Lists and select foreign.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/01/2010 at 2:01am
FWIW, I recall seeing on a 1988 issue of USTTA magazine, Jiang Jialiang's rating as 3002, Chen Longcan's as 3001, and Waldner's as 3000...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2010 at 11:41pm
Oliver, when larry beats you does he also mix in dead balls or are they all loaded with his trademark "heavyspin"?
 
The other two questions I have for you:
 
Do SP thin sponge push/pickhitters give you trouble?
 
Also, do tacky rubber players ever feed you knuckleballs?
 
I ask because I have recently experimented with "killing topspin" and scrubbing it off my opponents openers...it's not useful right now except for drop shots against spinny lobs.
 
One of the advantages (again this is theory, so bear with me) of tacky rubber is that creating low spin balls is easier than with traditional euro or japanese rubber (because, with good timing, it seems like you can use the topsheet to re-grab and neutralize the spin the ball after the sponge has released it).
 
And if you do manage to develop a twiddling backhand attack to end points....
 
LORD HELP US :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2010 at 12:53am
Originally posted by melarimsa melarimsa wrote:


Halex from Dick's Sporting goods :)


This table is also form DSG but seems to be a fantastic chipboard for the money

http://www.gearbuyer.com/products/stiga_st4000_table_tennis_table.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chris.b40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2010 at 3:51pm

That table looks as though it is worth every cent of the money.  $349.99

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2010 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by chris.b40 chris.b40 wrote:

That table looks as though it is worth every cent of the money.  $349.99



It's a good table but the delivery charges from the store to your place are $140 if memory serves. And if you want them to install it too, that's another 75 dollars (approx.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote walleyeguy7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2010 at 12:24am
my dorm friends all play very much like him, of course they are all much worse and have bad equipment. its good to know that if i lose to them that that particular style is actually a viable style at our level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2010 at 3:20am
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

FWIW, I recall seeing on a 1988 issue of USTTA magazine, Jiang Jialiang's rating as 3002, Chen Longcan's as 3001, and Waldner's as 3000...
 
These are just pie in the sky ratings , and maybe just put like that for seedings at a Tournament
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2010 at 11:10am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Oliver, when larry beats you does he also mix in dead balls or are they all loaded with his trademark "heavyspin"?
 
The other two questions I have for you:
 
Do SP thin sponge push/pickhitters give you trouble?
 
Also, do tacky rubber players ever feed you knuckleballs?
 
I ask because I have recently experimented with "killing topspin" and scrubbing it off my opponents openers...it's not useful right now except for drop shots against spinny lobs.
 
One of the advantages (again this is theory, so bear with me) of tacky rubber is that creating low spin balls is easier than with traditional euro or japanese rubber (because, with good timing, it seems like you can use the topsheet to re-grab and neutralize the spin the ball after the sponge has released it).
 
And if you do manage to develop a twiddling backhand attack to end points....
 
LORD HELP US :)
Sorry for the VERY late answer (almost 2 months late)
Haven't checked in for a while.. Larry gave me all spinny but relatively slow topspins.
Players with chinese tacky rubbers sometimes give me dead balls by blocking or pushing the ball "dead". However, I have started attacking those dead balls.. One of the players in our club who is below 2000 rating has given me a lot of trouble with dead blocks with his sticky chinese rubber.. Yesterday, I attacked his dead pushes 2 or 3 times successfully and he stopped pushing "dead". Beat him 3:0 and 3:1 yesterday at the club.. Actually had my best day at the club in a long time yesterday.. Won all my 8 matches...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bravefest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2010 at 2:44am
I'm not impressed by anyone attaining a high rating using long pips unless you're a heavy chopper.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who's sitting there blocking with long pips is using equipment to make up for a lack of fundamentals.

I've seen it happen over and over:  a player with good footwork and swings loses to a fatass who stands there and lets his junk rubber do all the work for him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gjairmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2010 at 3:16am
Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:

I'm not impressed by anyone attaining a high rating using long pips unless you're a heavy chopper.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who's sitting there blocking with long pips is using equipment to make up for a lack of fundamentals.

I've seen it happen over and over:  a player with good footwork and swings loses to a fatass who stands there and lets his junk rubber do all the work for him.


Despite their lack of fundamentals, there is no need to insult anyone. There is a chinese saying that goes something along the lines of...if you lose to someone because of lack of skills, then don't complain". And get this...there are no shortcuts in life.

If you, or me, or anyone loses consistently to a particular style..then it just means that we are slow at adapting, and quick adaptation/adjustment is an essential skill in table tennis...if u don't have that skill and they beat you fair and square then don't whine about it. Learn their style and overcome it...if u can't then u know that you are limited in skills (and this alone should motivate u to improve your table tennis basics)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2010 at 3:25am
Extrovert players are depriving themselves from the joy of life. One must show more compassion to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2010 at 4:10am
Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:

I'm not impressed by anyone attaining a high rating using long pips unless you're a heavy chopper.As far as I'm concerned, anyone who's sitting there blocking with long pips is using equipment to make up for a lack of fundamentals.I've seen it happen over and over:  a player with good footwork and swings loses to a fatass who stands there and lets his junk rubber do all the work for him.


Don't be a hater, be a player!
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