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The pro's equipment -discussion and questions!

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Claudiu84 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claudiu84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 9:16am
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:



http://www.globaltimes.cn/galleries/1026.html




Maaaaan, what kind of blade is in third picture? 



Edited by Claudiu84 - 11/16/2017 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 9:47am
I think the primary points that new readers need to understand is that:

1) No one, other than the pros themselves, know what they are using.

2) Pros, as far as I can tell, rarely, if ever, discuss their equipment.

3) Manufacturers have no shame and will make all kinds of claims, with plausible deniability (they can claim that they thought the pro was using their equipment).

4) Whatever is stated on a forum is meaningless. What counts is what the manufacturers state on their website and packaging, which is that they are legal libel. If composition, weight, etc. are not explicitly stated, it can be anything.

Other than this, a thread such as this is in good fun and part of the sport.

Edited by richrf - 11/16/2017 at 9:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 9:50am
Originally posted by kakapo kakapo wrote:

Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

ttspirit, I think that the companies are not trying to fool anyone. They just make blades with standart blade and handle sizes, AND ofcourse we all know that we get the lower quality blades and the pros get the top quality ones. Just when a pro player gets his blade, then he customizes his handle at his needs and hand mesurements.No one tries to fool us, they just costomize their own blades according to their needs.

And dont forget that we are all just players and hobbists, the pro players are feeding their families and theirselves from this sport and these blades.
So we get the commercial series of the blades and the companies make top quality blades from top quality woods, just because they play 8 hours per day-all week and make thier living and we play about 3 hours per practise-around 3-4 days per week.


100% agree. The blade construction is exactly the same we can found in a tt shop but the quality, the density and the weight are of course the subject of a close selection but...one can be lucky to find in a TT shop a blade that would have been selected by a pro.
Than, handle modifications can be made by a carpenter, so you exactly have the handle shape and thickness which suit to your hand...



but if you make a blade thats is not the same as the pro player use then you re deceiving the customers.it can be better quality but not diferent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 9:58am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

but if you make a blade thats is not the same as the pro player use then you re deceiving the customers.it can be better quality but not diferent


There is a certain amount of deception going on. To what extent is unclear. It probably varies from a little to a lot, but no one knows. Best, that everyone understands that no one knows, and discussions such as this are all in good fun.

Edited by richrf - 11/16/2017 at 9:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 10:13am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

ttspirit, I think that the companies are not trying to fool anyone. They just make blades with standart blade and handle sizes, AND ofcourse we all know that we get the lower quality blades and the pros get the top quality ones. Just when a pro player gets his blade, then he customizes his handle at his needs and hand mesurements.No one tries to fool us, they just costomize their own blades according to their needs.

And dont forget that we are all just players and hobbists, the pro players are feeding their families and theirselves from this sport and these blades.
So we get the commercial series of the blades and the companies make top quality blades from top quality woods, just because they play 8 hours per day-all week and make thier living and we play about 3 hours per practise-around 3-4 days per week.



customize handle is OK but if you use Viscaria with Infinity handle and Stiga claim you use Infinity does fooling

I dont think it is about fooling the other people, but saying a lie for professional purposes. Dont forget he is professional and he has contract with stiga and he gets money from stiga.

What did you expect from him to do?
- To take the money from the contract he has from stiga and then claiming to everyone that he plays with butterfly blade???
- Camera shoots him on close shots and everyone sees that he plays with a viscaria, and he doesn't go in an interview and say that he doesn't use butterfly and he uses stiga, although we everyone have seen a viscaria blade with different handle cups. If he has done so, then he would fool us. From the moment we all seee him using a butterfly blade and he doesn't claim the opposite, then he doesn't fool us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 10:31am
*_strataras_*


this is fooling

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 10:45am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

*_strataras_*


this is fooling



Yes, there is deception, but very carefully worded. There is no claim that he is using the blade in any tournament. He could be using it for precision hammering. ☺

Without parceing out every ad claim, it should be sufficient to acknowledge that similar type of endorsements are part of every sport, and this thread can simply acknowledge this. So, if someone is using a handle with Corbonado on it, all it means that it is a paid ad just like the ads on the shirts.

Edited by richrf - 11/16/2017 at 10:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 10:49am
people buy this blade because they think FZD use it. so all this people where fooled
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 10:51am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

people buy this blade because they think FZD use it. so all this people where fooled


There is deception just like there is in Michael Jordon shoes, or Wheaties the Breakfast of Champions. The best we can do is not to help propagate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 10:59am
But FZD plays with W968 so your Viscaria Argument has become irrelevant :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 11:29am
Nothing new, not in table tennis or anything else.  How many blades did Tibhar make over the years with Samsonov's name on it?  Butterfly makes an entire series of ZJK blades with a wide range of materials and compositions, and ZJK has never used a single one of them.  At least Timo Boll and Waldner actually used the blades with their name on them, even if they modified them some.  This is not really something to get worked up about.  (Was there ever such a thing as Genuine Corinthian Leather?  Extra points to anyone who can catch that ancient reference.  Maybe only Berndt, which is actually quite terrifying to me).

The fact that FZD is blatantly not hiding his use of a non-Stiga blade is pretty interesting.  Meanwhile LSW at the last tournament was blatantly using a Stiga blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 11:39am
Timo Boll literally plays with a TB ALC to his specified weight. Nothing else going on based on my inspection and his word.

Whats mildly infuriating in my opinion is stuff like FZD and the Infinity VPS or even the Hurricane Long 5 which is pretty significantly different from a genuine W968 in terms of how it feels and plays.


Edited by h0n1g - 11/16/2017 at 11:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Nothing new, not in table tennis or anything else.  How many blades did Tibhar make over the years with Samsonov's name on it?  Butterfly makes an entire series of ZJK blades with a wide range of materials and compositions, and ZJK has never used a single one of them.  At least Timo Boll and Waldner actually used the blades with their name on them, even if they modified them some.  This is not really something to get worked up about.  (Was there ever such a thing as Genuine Corinthian Leather?  Extra points to anyone who can catch that ancient reference.  Maybe only Berndt, which is actually quite terrifying to me).

The fact that FZD is blatantly not hiding his use of a non-Stiga blade is pretty interesting.  Meanwhile LSW at the last tournament was blatantly using a Stiga blade.



This is one of the few times I've actually read of a pro explicitly stating what equipment he is using. This was in a 2010 interview if Waldner. He doesn't day much about his actual tournament play.


Waldner equipment interview

The first question about you is often what equipment you use. So, what rubbers do you use these days?
Coppa JO Gold on forehand and Coppa JO Platin on backhand.

Which blade do you play with?
Right now I use Waldner Senso Carbon.

How important is the equipment for you?
It is naturally very important and I always have good stuff to play with.

Do you try out a lot of blades and rubbers to find the best match for you?
No, not really. I know what I want and I am happy when I have that. Jörgen Persson tries out a lot more equipment than I do, for example.

So you have never been an EJ?
No, never.

Have you changed a lot of equipment since the speedglue ban?
No, not really, but the rubbers themselves have changed a lot. However, I will try out a new faster blade now and I guess that is the closest I am to a change these days.

What kind of equipment did you use during the following championships?
1989
1992
1997
2000
I really don’t remember. As I said, I was never really into equipment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

 

What kind of equipment did you use during the following championships?
1989
1992
1997
2000
I really don’t remember. As I said, I was never really into equipment.

He used Nittaku JO Waldner with Nittaku JO Waldner on both sides in 1997 (but that's besides the point).


Edited by liXiao - 11/16/2017 at 1:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

*_strataras_*


this is fooling


OMG my friend piligrim!!! You know that this is advertisement from stiga. If I was a pro, my contract company would say anything it wants of what blade I use! BUT what I really use, is a totally different story! I would take my favorite blade from butterfly or any other company at my desired weight, and then I would give it to my contract company to put my company's handle cups. Of course maybe this is not possible, but someone who fixes blades could do this for me.
So these LIES are marketing project of the companies. Pro players cannot say anything if they are payed from them.Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

*_strataras_*


this is fooling



OMG my friend piligrim!!! You know that this is advertisement from stiga. If I was a pro, my contract company would say anything it wants of what blade I use! BUT what I really use, is a totally different story! I would take my favorite blade from butterfly or any other company at my desired weight, and then I would give it to my contract company to put my company's handle cups. Of course maybe this is not possible, but someone who fixes blades could do this for me.
So these LIES are marketing project of the companies. Pro players cannot say anything if they are payed from them.Embarrassed


persson was sued when it was found that he played with clipper with donic handles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

OMG my friend piligrim!!! You know that this is advertisement from stiga. If I was a pro, my contract company would say anything it wants of what blade I use! BUT what I really use, is a totally different story! I would take my favorite blade from butterfly or any other company at my desired weight, and then I would give it to my contract company to put my company's handle cups. Of course maybe this is not possible, but someone who fixes blades could do this for me.
So these LIES are marketing project of the companies. Pro players cannot say anything if they are payed from them.Embarrassed



my dear friend strataras. I don't blame FZD. I blame Stiga. its not marketing project. its lies to customers. reputable company shouldn't do this if doesn't want to lose costumers. next time I just won't buy it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

but if you make a blade thats is not the same as the pro player use then you re deceiving the customers.it can be better quality but not diferent


There is a certain amount of deception going on. To what extent is unclear. It probably varies from a little to a lot, but no one knows. Best, that everyone understands that no one knows, and discussions such as this are all in good fun.



a friend of mine bought a lp rubber from a famous korean chopper and it played very deceptive then I bought the comercial version it was not deceptive at all .

BTW the clipper karlsson(played in 2005 wttc) was using is thicker and way faster than the comercial version
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

OMG my friend piligrim!!! You know that this is advertisement from stiga. If I was a pro, my contract company would say anything it wants of what blade I use! BUT what I really use, is a totally different story! I would take my favorite blade from butterfly or any other company at my desired weight, and then I would give it to my contract company to put my company's handle cups. Of course maybe this is not possible, but someone who fixes blades could do this for me.
So these LIES are marketing project of the companies. Pro players cannot say anything if they are payed from them.Embarrassed



my dear friend strataras. I don't blame FZD. I blame Stiga. its not marketing project. its lies to customers. reputable company shouldn't do this if doesn't want to lose costumers. next time I just won't buy it

Oh that's what you mean?! Oh ok then, we agree Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttspirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 6:33pm
Do you know what, originally I wanted to buy yeras ago that same Boll Spirit ST blade because Butterfly and Timo Boll were claiming he uses Boll Spirit ST. After I have bought it I found out that he was using Boll Spirit ST blade but with different handle thickness I felt kind of sad, angry and cheated at once. If they claim that than I want 100% the same blade with the same ST handle and the same handle dimensions, you know, and nothing less.

Not for nothing is this kind of ST handle shape copied even from the top of the world players, like Karakasevic or Tokic and so on.

What the hell! I just wanted to open your eyes.

Anyway it is not right to earn money in this way.

As you know, this kind of business is sadly used in the big worlds business.

Why not earning money truly, I think. I know it would be possible. But this question can be answered by myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2017 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by ttspirit ttspirit wrote:

Do you know what, originally I wanted to buy yeras ago that same Boll Spirit ST blade because Butterfly and Timo Boll were claiming he uses Boll Spirit ST. After I have bought it I found out that he was using Boll Spirit ST blade but with different handle thickness I felt kind of sad, angry and cheated at once. If they claim that than I want 100% the same blade with the same ST handle and the same handle dimensions, you know, and nothing less.

Not for nothing is this kind of ST handle shape copied even from the top of the world players, like Karakasevic or Tokic and so on.

What the hell! I just wanted to open your eyes.

Anyway it is not right to earn money in this way.

As you know, this kind of business is sadly used in the big worlds business.

Why not earning money truly, I think. I know it would be possible. But this question can be answered by myself.
Some could never get enough.


I agree with you. Ultimately any type of business deception should not be condoned. The best that one can do is if anyone asks what equipment pro X is using, just let them know that only the pro knows.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2017 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by ttspirit ttspirit wrote:

Do you know what, originally I wanted to buy yeras ago that same Boll Spirit ST blade because Butterfly and Timo Boll were claiming he uses Boll Spirit ST. After I have bought it I found out that he was using Boll Spirit ST blade but with different handle thickness I felt kind of sad, angry and cheated at once. If they claim that than I want 100% the same blade with the same ST handle and the same handle dimensions, you know, and nothing less.

Not for nothing is this kind of ST handle shape copied even from the top of the world players, like Karakasevic or Tokic and so on.

What the hell! I just wanted to open your eyes.

Anyway it is not right to earn money in this way.

As you know, this kind of business is sadly used in the big worlds business.

Why not earning money truly, I think. I know it would be possible. But this question can be answered by myself.
Some could never get enough.

I also wish to buy the same handle TB ALC as Timo Boll uses but alas can not. I think BTY Japan makes handles to fit their population, not the world. And to change or add another step to make bigger handles in the factory would cost them money they do not want to spend. Cry

I tried grip tape, rubber grip, etc... it takes away from the feel of the ball. The best feel for me is still with bare handle.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2017 at 5:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2017 at 6:56pm
Thought question...if we had access to try XX's, FZD's, ZJK's, & ML's blades, would we be surprised by how super fast they are?  Or how they're not actually that fast at all?!  Or some fast and some not fast...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2017 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by bschap bschap wrote:

Thought question...if we had access to try XX's, FZD's, ZJK's, & ML's blades, would we be surprised by how super fast they are?  Or how they're not actually that fast at all?!  Or some fast and some not fast...


I wonder the same..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2017 at 7:53pm
The deceptive handle marketing has always bothered me. Totally lame.

The multiple blades with a player's name on them is silly but at least it's transparently silly. Putting a Stiga handle on a BTY blade and claiming you play with a Stiga blade is reprehensible, in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2017 at 12:09pm
Fang Bo switched to Viscaria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2017 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

The deceptive handle marketing has always bothered me. Totally lame.

The multiple blades with a player's name on them is silly but at least it's transparently silly. Putting a Stiga handle on a BTY blade and claiming you play with a Stiga blade is reprehensible, in my opinion.


Advanced players, with access to the means, have always changed handles when acquiring a new blade. It is only say in the last 20 years, in my experience, that this practice has basically ceased.



Edited by Tinykin - 11/19/2017 at 12:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darucla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2017 at 3:24pm
Fang Bo and Fan Zhendong apparently swapped blades for a few tournaments.  Just to try out other equipment.  Now that's weird, in a major event, and makes me wonder about the state of coaching in CNT at present.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2017 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by darucla darucla wrote:

Fang Bo and Fan Zhendong apparently swapped blades for a few tournaments.  Just to try out other equipment.  Now that's weird, in a major event, and makes me wonder about the state of coaching in CNT at present.

It is not just a couple of players. This EJ disease has afflicted the whole CNT (barring Ma Long). XX moving to a carbon blade. ZJK trying T05 on FH (!!!). Zhou Yu trying red H3 (not sure which version) on FH. And yes, FB and FZD.

It may have to do with a 'testing deadline' directive coming from coaching (that perhaps did not exist during LGL's tenure). I would not be surprised if the fact that they are no longer just steamrolling the Europeans has something to do with the small amount of unfamiliarity they could have with the new equipment.
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