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Reporting the mass of your uncut rubbers

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    Posted: 06/04/2010 at 3:45pm
http://mass.doingitwrong.net is gone;

new site is: http://www.choices-guide.com/silver/

Additional site with updated values: Rubber Mass Database


Some like head heavy, some not. This simple database is so helpful to fine tune the balance of our blade(s).


When you purchase a rubber, please measure the sides (Lenght and Width) in mm (1 inch = 25.4mm) and weight it in grams before cutting it. Also report in this thread the color of the topsheet and of course the sponge thickness. Finally divide the weight in grams by the product  (L x W) to get the weight per cm2.

Examples:

uncut Joola Mambo H 1.8 mm red 168mm x 178 mm = 53 grams = 0.177gr/cm2

uncut Nittaku Narucross GS Soft MAX Black 168mm x 168mm = 63 grams = 0.223 gr/cm2

Forum member Silvalis will check regularly this thread to harvest your data.

Thanks to him and Haggisv to make it possible.

Edit 1: here is the ITTF official rubber list http://www.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf1.asp?category=rubber
 
Edit 2: After Silvalis' formatting instructions I would submit the 2 rubbers above the following way:
 
Brand: Joola
Rubber ID/Model: Mambo H
Thickness: 1.8mm
Colour: red
Uncut Mass: 53gr
Length: 168mm
Width: 178mm

Brand: Nittaku
Rubber ID/Model: Narucross GS Soft
Thickness: MAX
Colour: black
Uncut Mass: 63gr
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm
 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/04/2010 at 4:00pm
too late for many of my (no longer) new rubbers Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/04/2010 at 11:49pm
Some usefull HINTS: How to check your blade's actual square with a tailor's measuring tape. (a result within quite decent accuracy is well assured).
-Take a measure of the blade's overall perimeter (P)
Thus you can find out the blade's square inside the perimeter (S) =P^2 /4*3.14
Example: My TIBHAR L-IV blade's perimeter =50.5 cm.
Blade's Square =2550.25 /12.56 =203.05cm^ ~203 cm^
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 2:01am
Hi All
Please format your data like this.

If the rubber has a newer ITTF rubber code (ID number), please include it.
Please use Models out of the ITTF database, as per their spelling.
If the rubber has a specific version that differentiates it (eg, National, Blue Sponge, Euro, whatever) please indicate after ID and Model

FOR EXAMPLE.
Brand: Butterfly
Rubber ID, Model, Sponge: 005 Spinart
Thickness (max or in mm): max
Colour: black
Uncut Mass(g): 73.6
Length(mm): 176
Width(mm): 165

If the rubber has sides corners cut, you can also list the l/w of each corner.

Eg

Corner 1 X: 15
Corner 1 Y: 14
Corner 2 X: 16
Corner 2 Y: 13
Corner 3 X: 10
Corner 3 Y: 11
Corner 4 X: 12
Corner 4 Y: 11


Brand:
Rubber ID/Model:
Thickness (max or in mm):
Colour:
Uncut Mass(g):
Length(mm):
Width(mm):


If you don't include everything, chances are your entry will not make it into the database.

ONE MORE THING

PLEASE INDICATE THE ID NUMBER IF AVAILABLE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 2:06am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Some usefull HINTS: How to check your blade's actual square with a tailor's measuring tape. (a result within quite decent accuracy is well assured).
-Take a measure of the blade's overall perimeter (P)
Thus you can find out the blade's square inside the perimeter (S) =P^2 /4*3.14
Example: My TIBHAR L-IV blade's perimeter =50.5 cm.
Blade's Square =2550.25 /12.56 =203.05cm^ ~203 cm^


Then you can multiply it by the grams per sqcm to give yourself an idea of what it will weight.

Keep in mind that considering that the measurements in the database are open and submitted by lots of people, we're going to get some not-so-accurate measurements.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote karabijntje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 4:51am
Originally posted by silvalis silvalis wrote:

...Please use Models out of the ITTF database, as per their spelling...

fatt, could you put a link to this database in the main post?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote karabijntje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 6:37am
Two new beauties arrived today Big%20smile, here's the data:

Brand: Stiga
Rubber ID/Model: 68-003 / Boost TS
Thickness: 2.0mm
Colour: black
Uncut Mass: 56gr
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm

Brand: Stiga
Rubber ID/Model: 68-003 / Boost TS
Thickness: 2.0mm
Colour: red
Uncut Mass: 56gr
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm

gr/cm2 = 56 / (16.8 x 16.8)  = 0,1984127
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 10:37am
Originally posted by karabijntje karabijntje wrote:

Originally posted by silvalis silvalis wrote:

...Please use Models out of the ITTF database, as per their spelling...

fatt, could you put a link to this database in the main post?
 
done
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 11:41am
would the data we submit work even for rubbers that we have used. Let's say I have cut a rubber and glued it to my blade and played with it. Can I uses a left over piece that is about 5mm by 5mm (after carefully measuring it) and then posting the weight of that piece? Would that suffice? I am asking because I did not have a scale at first so I never weighed my rubbers, but now I have one, but the rubbers have been cut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Ranger-man Ranger-man wrote:

would the data we submit work even for rubbers that we have used. Let's say I have cut a rubber and glued it to my blade and played with it. Can I uses a left over piece that is about 5mm by 5mm (after carefully measuring it) and then posting the weight of that piece? Would that suffice? I am asking because I did not have a scale at first so I never weighed my rubbers, but now I have one, but the rubbers have been cut.

I think it's a VERY good question even though my gut feeling is that it will not work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conan the Greek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 12:06pm
It shouldn't be too hard to derive the weight of an uncut piece of rubber from a 5cm square piece of rubber. Just divide the weight of the 5x5 by 25 to get the weight per sq cm, then multiple that figure by the area of an uncut piece of rubber (maybe around 300 - 310 sq cm?)

There could be a variable because of the weight of any residual glue.

Any related thoughts?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 12:16pm
The final value that's relevant to me is the weight per cm2. So yes weighting a 5cm x 5cm piece of used rubber and dividing the result by 25 would be just fine for my personal use (I would not need to extrapolate the mass of the whole uncut rubber from that value).
Anyway I just do not believe Silvalis will take it into consideration. Let's wait what he thinks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conan the Greek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

The final value that's relevant to me is the weight per cm2. So yes weighting a 5cm x 5cm piece of used rubber and dividing the result by 25would be just fine for my personaluse (I would not need to extrapolate the mass of the whole uncut rubber from that value).
Anyway I just do not believe Silvalis will take it into consideration. Let's wait what he thinks.



Agreed. But as I said, used rubber with glue will weigh more than fresh rubber. That has to be taken into consideration. Otherwise, comparing used / spent F3 Big Slam to new Tenergy will likely favor the Butterfly rubber. We all know that is not the case for weight purposes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 4:20pm
Dear Silvalis,
I used to consult your 'Weights Table' quite oftentimes and my first wish is that the Table gets some easier to handle.
HEAR are the points to improve:
1. The OX-rubbes are of minor interest and should be listed into a separate table
2. The table column of "Weight per cm2": The 7-digit numbers are quite tiresome to operate with and thus should be pruned down to 4digits, e.g.
0.224332 --> 0.224
0.212571 -->0.213
Such a reduction will promote fine weight calculations even without CASSIO multi-digit computers :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote karabijntje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2010 at 4:40pm
I don't think used rubbers should be taken into account. You can't measure the amount of glue. Rubbers will be bought new, eventually. So there's less submitted data over a period of time, but it's more accurate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/06/2010 at 12:20am
Silvalis does it have any worth to this forum thread to post what a 2.1 rubber and sponge weighs when cut to the head of butterfly blade?

In other words, if I tell you that the last 30 rubbers I cut all weighed at almost 47grams and all the last 20 f3 big slams weighed at about 33 grams, is that still usefull?

sorry not sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/07/2010 at 6:29am
hmm
It might be. I'd just have to figure out what the butterfly head size is. TBS?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote karabijntje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2010 at 3:57am
Main head size for BTY blades is 150x157mm , TBS aswell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JRSDallas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/08/2010 at 4:28am

The blade face area of the Butterfly's 157 x 150 mm head (their most common size) is  194.5 sq. cm.

Some of the blades with this head size are:  TBS, Amultart, Schlager Carbon, Timo Boll ALC/ZLC/ZLF/T5000/W7, etceteras....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/09/2010 at 4:29pm
I did not mean using used rubber per se, but the cuttings from rubbers that I have used. The cuttings are smaller, but still new, hence no wear on the surface, and no glue residue on the sponge, or any chance that the sponge may have retained some glue through absorbing or anything like that. As far as measuring the size of the cut piece. I guess a larger piece does cater to the chance that it would be like a large sample size in any statistical probability calculation and therefore a more accurate result. That is, if we think that no sponge is 100% uniform in density across its entire area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2010 at 6:04pm
Brand: Cornilleau
Rubber ID/Model: Pilot Advance
Thickness: 2.2mm
Colour: red
Uncut Mass: 63gr
Length: 163mm
Width: 169mm

Brand: Cornilleau
Rubber ID/Model: Pilot Advance
Thickness: 2.0mm
Colour: black
Uncut Mass: 63gr
Length: 163mm
Width: 169mm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmarziou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2010 at 5:54pm
Brand: Andro
Rubber ID, Model, Sponge: 010 Hexer Duro
Thickness (max or in mm): 1.7
Colour: black
Uncut Mass(g): 60
Length(mm): 168
Width(mm): 168
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zo k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2010 at 4:23pm
Brand: Joola
Rubber ID/Model: 40-001 / Express One
Thickness: Max
Colour: Red
Uncut Mass: 62.5g
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm
.....
Brand: Joola
Rubber ID/Model: 40-001 / Express One
Thickness: Max
Colour: Black
Uncut Mass: 62.8g
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm
.....
Brand: Donic
Rubber ID/Model: 21-006 / Baracuda
Thickness: 2.0mm
Colour: Red
Uncut Mass: 62.7g
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm
.....
Brand: Donic
Rubber ID/Model: 21-006 / Baracuda
Thickness: 2.0mm
Colour: Black
Uncut Mass: 64.9g
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmarziou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2010 at 5:53am
Brand: Cornilleau
Rubber ID/Model: 17-010 / Pilot Power
Thickness: 1.8mm
Colour: Black
Uncut Mass: 52g
Length: 165mm
Width: 175mm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2010 at 12:52pm
The info below is taken from there

Brand: Yasaka
Rubber ID/Model:
rakza7
Thickness: MAX
Colour: Red
Uncut Mass: 63g
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2010 at 11:36am
Brand: LKT
Rubber ID/Model: Black Power

Thickness: 2.1mm
Colour: Black
Uncut Mass: 65g
Length: 170mm
Width: 166mm

Brand: LKT
Rubber ID/Model: Red Diamond

Thickness: 2.1mm
Colour: Red
Uncut Mass: 63g
Length: 166mm
Width: 166mm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zo k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2010 at 4:39am
Brand: Joola
Rubber ID/Model: 40-009 / Brave
Thickness: 2.1mm
Colour: Black
Uncut Mass: 67.9g(without prot.sheets)
Length: 168mm
Width: 168mm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tompy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2010 at 5:32am
Originally posted by Conan the Greek Conan the Greek wrote:

It shouldn't be too hard to derive the weight of an uncut piece of rubber from a 5cm square piece of rubber. Just divide the weight of the 5x5 by 25 to get the weight per sq cm, then multiple that figure by the area of an uncut piece of rubber (maybe around 300 - 310 sq cm?)

There could be a variable because of the weight of any residual glue.

Any related thoughts?



Only problem is that you multiply a measuring tolerance (surface area and weight) also going from a measured 25 sqr cm back to an uncut sheet.

Like 300 sqr cm is 60 grms. Meaning 25 sqr cm will be 5 grms. Most balances also have a worse precision weighing lower weights.
Suppose total tolerance (area and weight) is ten percent (which could be a low estimate). If you messure 5 grms / sqr cm it could be 5,5 or 4,5 seams precise
but it,s in between 54 and 66 grms ; twelve grams difference.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dek-dek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2010 at 6:42am
Why does anyone care about the size or mass of a rubber? A few grams does not make that much of a differnce, just saying
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmarziou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2010 at 5:56pm
It does make a difference when you are subject to tendinitis
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