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Ma Long's technique |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Posted: 01/06/2011 at 12:41am |
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Just found this gem!
http://www.bokett.com/tt/dispbbs.asp?boardid=960&id=340563 It includes 1) Ma Long's FH loop-kill against underspin 2) Ma Long's FH loop against half-long serves 3) Ma Long's FH mid-distance counterloop 4) Ma Long's over the table sidespin BH flick 5) Ma Long's traditional BH flick, starting with a fake "push" motion. |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Pure gold!!!
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rookies
Silver Member Joined: 07/28/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 782 |
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Thank you very much!
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Anton Chigurh
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Super awesome pics. Now I just need to learn how to read Chinese so I can understand the details. (Or is that Japanese?) Maybe I first need to learn to distinguish between the two...
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Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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skstv2010
Super Member Joined: 02/28/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 173 |
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Chinese haha
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Neo TG3 + Ebonholz V ST + Sriver G3
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TT_haru
Super Member Joined: 11/12/2010 Status: Offline Points: 142 |
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His weakness is his backhand at middle and middle far table ... Switching to his forehand ....
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enky4u
Member Joined: 08/31/2010 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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can you translate it to english?
thanks
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rustyfo
Silver Member Joined: 01/21/2007 Location: Faroe Islands Status: Offline Points: 702 |
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awesome, anyone translating this to English would be my personal hero!
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vali
Super Member Joined: 11/30/2007 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 133 |
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From these pictures seems that he has a pretty much backhand oriented grip. I didn't noticed that till now.
As it was said he is more like a new Kong than a new Liqin. Edited by vali - 01/06/2011 at 4:37am |
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Clipper
FH: XIOM Vega Asia , max BH: Yasaka RAKZA7, 2.0 |
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Vladovich
Gold Member Joined: 05/29/2008 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 1720 |
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Woow, this is great, can someone translate pictures?
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Tibhar Defense Plus
FH: Joola Phenix BH: Dr. Neubauer Bison 1.5mm "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be…unnatural." |
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Vassily
Silver Member Joined: 12/22/2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 614 |
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Nice pics!
I thought Zhang Jike was the new Kong with his BH grip and his crab stance. But I saw in an interview that ZJ personally likes to hit the ball really hard, and they have to keep trying to get him to chill out a bit... Ma Long is more willing to let the opponent start attacking first, so I suppose in that sense he is more Kong-like. So it looks like everyone is Kong? That loop against half-long serves is interesting. Most people tend to go flatter and the shot seems way easier to do with sticky chinese rubber compared to less sticky euro stuff. Edited by Vassily - 01/06/2011 at 6:13am |
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Nittaku Acoustic FL T05 Acuda S2 2.0mm
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FireHorse
Silver Member Joined: 09/05/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 567 |
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No offense, but I think he has neutral grip. The one who has backhand oriented grip is Zhang Jike. That is why Ma Long is not as strong in his backhand as Zhang Jike. But again, his forehand is better than Zhang Jike. It's just my observation. |
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Current Setup:
Butterfly Primorac Carbon FH: Andro Rassant Grip BH: Andro Rassant PowerGrip |
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FireHorse
Silver Member Joined: 09/05/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 567 |
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It is truly a gem. I just need to learn Chinese to know the details. It helps to look at the pictures but it would be greatly helpful if someone can translate in English. But thanks for the post. FireHorse |
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Current Setup:
Butterfly Primorac Carbon FH: Andro Rassant Grip BH: Andro Rassant PowerGrip |
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TT_haru
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fructu
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Just amazing, thanks a lot!!!
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pipigrande
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Simply looking at Ma Long, you would think his FH is better than BH.
Chinese commentators and coaches have said in the past that Ma Long's BH is not his weakness but it is even better than his FH. I'm too lazy to look up the references, so if anyone remember them feel free to post them. Oh and btw you can't say Long's FH is not as 'strong' as Jikes. Are you talking about power? Consistency? Spin? Placement? ... Ma long FH has something that Jikes doesn't and viceversa. |
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Acoustic
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ejmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 08/09/2009 Location: madrid Status: Offline Points: 2609 |
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To watch Ma long's bh, the 2 last points from 10-10 in the last set to win wang hao in the Asian games.
Ma Long's bh is quite good.
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EJ Club.
MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood. |
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TT_haru
Super Member Joined: 11/12/2010 Status: Offline Points: 142 |
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It is mentioned in the link posted above. Furthermore, knowing his weakness, he will take the initiative to attack during the first 3 strokes as a way to suppress his opponent and at the fourth stroke, he is able to turn from defensive to offensive using some high difficulty technique to counter-loop and gain the initiative. Basically, he like to take the initiative to be the first to attack so that he can control the match. That's his style. Also the link only mention about his weakness at mid and mid-far table for his BH. So his BH and near table is still pretty formidable ...
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johnny89atc
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Very nice, thank you!
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Blade: OSP Virtuoso-L RST 87gr
FH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9 |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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When are you guys just gonna realise that strokes don't make the player, any world class player in the top 100 has the same firepower, the looped drive winner is just the hammer that knocks the nail in, the best guy in the world is always than man on top form through other reasons, usually because his total touch/ service, and actually total awareness of top TT play has reached a real peak, its nothing to do with his stroke play.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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TT_haru
Super Member Joined: 11/12/2010 Status: Offline Points: 142 |
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Okay and I m just able to encourage those who understand chinese to help-out in translating the stuff to benefit other shakehand users. It will feel like a wasted effort right? Anyway, what you said is true as well, 'emulate' the top player doesn't make one a top player ...
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APW46
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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PongPong
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Usually Chinese handshake players use BH close to the table, unable to counter loop from distance using BH but Ma Long can do quality BH counter loops sometimes.
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hclnnkhg
Beginner Joined: 09/20/2010 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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First picture is a description about Ma Long's style(which I am not really concerned about) but I translated it with simple English anyway:
Ma Long, the latest men-single winner in Asian games, has beaten lots of top players in the world. Characteristic of his game is obvious - very good at initiating attack, fast and firece, consistent and powerful when he is attacking and counter-attacking from close to mid table. His footwork is reasonable in mid-table, also his forehand loop has good arc, speed, power, placement, which make his technique structure complete. His backhand from mid to far away from table is relatively weak, therefore, Ma Long always tries to use forehand to attack after playing passively on backhand. Furthermore, to avoid his own weakness, he will initate attack on 3rd ball to put pressure on opponent, and he will counterloop the 4th ball when receiving. We can say that Ma Long's offensive mind leads to his active style, and his forehand has made up for his weaker backhand to an extent. His backhand is a threat when playing close to the table. Ma Long's "All-round" offensive technique is a nightmare of every player. I will keep translating the rest before I fall asleep (0044 in UK!) |
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kenneyy88
Premier Member Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
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You cannot win on only service or touch. Strokes are very important. If you do not have any strokes, you will surely lose the game. A player with simple service and excellent strokes are much better than a player without any strokes. The player without good strokes will make errors on returning long services and the other player will be free to attack.
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Anton Chigurh
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Awesome, and thank you. I, and others I'm sure, are very grateful for whatever efforts you can put into translation. |
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Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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hclnnkhg
Beginner Joined: 09/20/2010 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Thank you for your appreciation. Here is the first introduced technique: Ma Long's forehand powerlooping backspin (Top yellow box) Powerlooping backspin is the most common attacking method, and it is one of the most powerful forehand technique. As it is powerloop, the advantage of power must be emphasised; pratically, the arc should be low, the ball should have decent amount of topspin, and with flexible placement, we can achieve maximum output. But many TT-lovers focus too much on power, the stroke is too big, which desrupt the harmony between arm and body, leads to decrease in consistency. When we are powerlooping, we should focus on controlling the arc and the placement of the ball, then we increase the power if, and only if we are consistent. On the other hand, although powerlooping is powerful, recovering is also important. we should control our swing and ensure body weight is able, so we can recover quickly. (Caption in Picture 5) Right foot is pushing the ground, the body starts to lean forward (Caption in Picture 6) Close the bat slightly, keep it stable, hit the lower part of the mid-top of the ball Forearm is not moving a lot, use your arm primarily Left foot steps forward using the force generated when body moves forward (Caption in Picture 7) Close the forearm to make the arc shorter Left foot pushs the floor to stop the body from hitting the table (Caption in Picture 8) Waist should turn enough so power of whole body can be used (White box in bottom-right corner) (Red text) Footwork is imporant, find the precise hitting point before you swing, then makes your stroke bigger (Black text) These picture shows Ma Long doing the stroke. In picture 1, when Ma Long moved from backhand corner to forehand corner, he kept his body very low, his legs were bent, and his upper body was leaning forward. In picture 2, Ma Long back-swinged when his right foot moved. There are 2 main points: firstly, the step should not be too small or too big, so he can hit the ball at the most reasonable point; secondly, don't back-swing too much before the body is at the position, because the upper-body should be relaxed; Moreover, it would be easier to deal with a short ball, net ball or edge ball. Amateur players' biggest problem is their huge swing, it will only makes the stroke out of control. In picture 4, Ma Long started to swing faster after he was in the right position. His arm was fully stretched. His right foot pushed the floor to make the body move forward. It is crucial to use the force during the body is moving forward in a powerloop. Amateur players also use the power from the twist of the waist, sometimes they jump up when they hit the ball. It will increase the quality of the stroke, but this motion has a disadvantage: if the coming ball is not very fast, or it has a short arc, or anticipation is not precise enough, then we can't use the power of the coming ball, therefore consistency and effect of powerlooping will decrease greatly. So, before we do this storke, we should stand a little bit away from the table, and we should lean forward when we hit the ball. (Red text) at the hitting moment, hitting it more forward, close your forearm, control the arc (Black text) Theoritically, to increase the speed of ball, we need to increase the forward force. Although lots of amateur players know that, but they still have prolems in matches. Firstly, does increasing forward force means more "hitting" Secondly, does the wrist come in when we powerloop? and thirdly, how much should we close our forearm? I believe we can find some answers from the motion of Ma Long. In picture 5, Ma Long's left foot stepped forward, body leaned forward, using the power when the body moved forward. His bat was close but not much. In picture 6, his bat angle was stable, hitting the lower part of the mid-top of the ball. Brushing is essential, as the ball comes with backspin, we must overcome it. but when we actually do the stroke, we can feel more hitting than brushing. Because we need to generate power/speed, therefore hitting more will give better effect. Also, portion of brushing depends on the height and the spin of the coming ball. Usually the backspin is not very strong if it is pushed, so we don't need to brush a lot. Also, we need to hit the ball at its highest point, with too much brushing, the ball will go over the table. In picture 5-6, it was obvious that Ma Long was generating a forward force, in order to increase the power and speed of the ball. In picture 4, we can see Ma Long's wrist was moving outwards; in picture 7 and 9, his wrist was moving inwards, this means he used wrist. As we hit more than brush in a powerloop, wrist movement is critical for controlling the arc. The movement should not be too big, but quick in a sudden, to increase the spin of the ball. In picture 6-8, Ma Long's forearm movement was obvious. It is mainly for transmitting power from the body to the ball, and controlling the length of arc. The forearm movement can be separated into two parts: at the moment of hitting the ball, the movement was limited, he used mostly his upper arm; just after hitting the ball, the forearm movement increased, so forward force was reduced, and the arc was shortened. This is very important when looping close to the table. Picture 9-10 shows how Ma Long recovered. His left foot pushed the floor to stop the body from hitting the table; At the same time his arm relaxed, but he kept his body relatively tight. I am going to sleep now, this task will take hours! I will continue tomorrow |
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TT_haru
Super Member Joined: 11/12/2010 Status: Offline Points: 142 |
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,understandable. The translation will take hours, not to mention, sometime it is very difficult to find the exact english phrase to explain what was written in Chinese ...
Edited by TT_haru - 01/06/2011 at 8:55pm |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread. It's amazing how you, as an assistant moderator can be so discouraging to people who are genuinely trying to contribute to the forum. If you have so much knowledge and wisdom about TT, why not produce something helpful for other members of this forum, like producing tutorials through video/articles? I am genuinely speechless. |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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hclnnkhg, thanks for all your efforts!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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