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Palio Thor's & Blades

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2011 at 4:05pm
Great thread TheRobot99! Clap

Here's my 2c worth.. Thor's works very well on:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 9:37am
DO you have any info on why Thor does not work with T8? Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheRobot99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 10:53am
I don't really know exactly why. I'd have to check the original thread for that if it's there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

DO you have any info on why Thor does not work with T8? Ermm

with thor's, you have to dig in to the sponge, which needs more forward movement.

 With T8, an overtly fast and thick blade,... you cannot do that all the time unless you are in very good position... because otherwise the ball will fly out. 

plus juniper topply of t-8 is not that hard to squeeze the sponge between the blade and the ball. 

that's why.



Edited by debraj - 04/01/2011 at 2:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheRobot99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 3:38pm
That may also explain why it works for me on the Passion Fast. It has a soft outer ply, but it's stiff and since my loop stroke is more of a brush than a hit, I get the sponge by virtue of the blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 3:54pm
@ debraj

Quote with thor's, you have to dig in to the sponge, which needs more forward movement.


Thank you, this is very interesting, however if I may question something... This logic seems to apply to H3 Neo too, being hard. So would you say that H3 Neo does not work well on T8?

In fact I tried H3 Neo on T8 yesterday and it played very good. My rationale is that T8, being powerful, consistently provided enough power to engage the hard sponge of H3 Neo, which would otherwise be difficult without a very large swing, which you cannot always do. And the softness of the wood in the outer layer seemed to make H3 softer for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheRobot99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 4:33pm
Thor's, unlike H3 Neo and H2 Neo (which I used), is a Tensor. Tensors behave a bit differently than "regular" sponges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

@ debraj

Quote with thor's, you have to dig in to the sponge, which needs more forward movement.


Thank you, this is very interesting, however if I may question something... This logic seems to apply to H3 Neo too, being hard. So would you say that H3 Neo does not work well on T8?

In fact I tried H3 Neo on T8 yesterday and it played very good. My rationale is that T8, being powerful, consistently provided enough power to engage the hard sponge of H3 Neo, which would otherwise be difficult without a very large swing, which you cannot always do. And the softness of the wood in the outer layer seemed to make H3 softer for some reason.


nope.. h3 neo has harder topsheet than thors... it transitions from slow speed to high speed more proportionally with speed of impact.

thor's doesn't.

at low impact it stays low... at medium impact it hits a trough. and then after engaging the sponge again increases exponentially.

if you most of your out of position counters are in the mid range, you will be frustrated with thors... and will come back saying its too low throw for you or bottoming out and hitting net or something like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 9:16pm
Thors (purple line) plays roughly like this graph, the harder the impact the faster it goes exponentially, the throw also lessens the same as that graph and the sensitivity to spin isn't far different either. That's why it takes so long to learn what it's going to do. A random DHS or similar rubber is the red line




Edited by bluebucket - 04/01/2011 at 9:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2011 at 11:36pm
It played well on my Yasaka Malin Soft Carbon cpen on the forehand. It fits the characteristic described in the prior threads. Forward motion and hit into the sponge are the key.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 3:52am
Do you guys think Thor's will work on Dawei GTO, Dawei Wavestone, and Galaxy T4? Thanks for the explanation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 7:08pm
I dont think it works well on a Donic Waldner Senso Carbon.
Although it could be my new sheet is a defect. Isnt tacky at all. very dissapointed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seguso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 2:16am
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

nope.. h3 neo has harder topsheet than thors... it transitions from slow speed to high speed more proportionally with speed of impact.


i was wondering... if I soften up the H3 topsheet with olive oil, will I get something similar to thors?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 2:27am
seguso, no because Thors topsheet (and all esn rubbers) is something like twice as soft. Much more than just using oil will achieve, plus it's on a springy sponge 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tremil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 8:01am
Hard sponge works good on hard blades
Soft sponge works good on soft blades
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by tremil tremil wrote:

Hard sponge works good on hard blades
Soft sponge works good on soft blades

My rule of thumb for good working combinations:
Soft blade --> harder sponge
Hard blade --> softer sponge

But it depends in each case on the individual material which is used. And on the preferences the player likes more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 1:09pm



Edited by debraj - 04/04/2011 at 1:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by zzz zzz wrote:

 
My rule of thumb for good working combinations:
Soft blade --> harder sponge
Hard blade --> softer sponge

But it depends in each case on the individual material which is used. And on the preferences the player likes more.

this is the common sense deduction....

Originally posted by tremil tremil wrote:

Hard sponge works good on hard blades
Soft sponge works good on soft blades

..but this is the proven fact Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

Originally posted by tremil tremil wrote:

Hard sponge works good on hard blades
Soft sponge works good on soft blades

..but this is the proven fact Big smile

OK, but not for me. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by zzz zzz wrote:


My rule of thumb for good working combinations:
Soft blade --> harder sponge
Hard blade --> softer sponge

But it depends in each case on the individual material which is used. And on the preferences the player likes more.

I agree with this too. With my personal preference of course.
Although I found Chinese rubbers for me work much better on Soft Blades.
But overall there isn't a large gap between capabilities with German or Japanese rubbers depending on the blade hardness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beowulf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 8:33am
@Debraj,
               How is Thor's working on your F-1...?? Can I know why you are not using it on your forehand..??Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 12:11pm
beowulf:

thor's seems to work much better in F-1, than Yinhe V-1. In fact now in retrospect i think V-1 should be in the "doesn't work well with thors" list than otherwise.

my story is when i moved from V-1 to f-1 i had problems adjusting from 7mm to 5.9 mm blade. the stroke mechanics, dwell, throw, everything is different. And i struggled with thors on FH, but somehow it was not as difficult to adjust in BH. 

So i tried some H3 etc. and then my sheet of T05; and because these rubbers are easier to play with, they could somehow compensate the already existing challenge of new blade. 

right now i have adjusted fairly well with F-1... so in a week or so i will give thors a try again on FH. if I still feel that i'm struggling with the counter-looping issue, i might use h3 neo prov.  or else continue using thors on both sides.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

if I still feel that i'm struggling with the counter-looping issue, i might use h3 neo prov.  or else continue using thors on both sides.


i'm confused. at US1628, how much of your game should you be basing off a counterloop?

i had read somewhere that counterlooping was the single most advanced shot in the game, and usually only seen with any consistency with US2200 and above+ players.

it would seem to me that if a rubber does everything *but* counterloop well, then it is still a very good rubber for all but the most advanced players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 1:38pm
icontek... the rating you are referring is old, which i had told you earlier, you will soon see the new rating updated to include sacramento summer open, where i beat some higher rated players including a 1971 rated player. 

but i think i had posted some videos, and soon will upload some more which emphasizes counterlooping part of the game. 

you can hear things about 2200+or 1600+ , .. but at 1200 level it is difficult to figure out how its different ... it doesn't necessarily work on rating points but on game styles.

 i would rather you wait for some videos which are better credible estimates and get over the rating related myths.LOL



Edited by debraj - 04/05/2011 at 1:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

if I still feel that i'm struggling with the counter-looping issue, i might use h3 neo prov.  or else continue using thors on both sides.


i'm confused. at US1628, how much of your game should you be basing off a counterloop?

i had read somewhere that counterlooping was the single most advanced shot in the game, and usually only seen with any consistency with US2200 and above+ players.

it would seem to me that if a rubber does everything *but* counterloop well, then it is still a very good rubber for all but the most advanced players.

I dont know how much this is true about US players. But here in the UK is seems especially juniors or people who were/are being coached learn the counterloop the quickest. and actually loop to loop rallies is the thing they are really good at early on in their abilities. The thing they tend to learn the slowest seems to be the opening shot and touch play
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 1:48pm
NDragon88: that was exactly the same in India... we learned counterlooping close and away from table as first lessons. and even when i couldn't push well, or couldn't serve well or didn't know how to block well, i could still counterloop 3 yards away from table consistently for ever. 

but I agree, for someone who is not gone through proper formal training of the game its difficult to understand that, because most likely they will instinctively block loops than taking step back and counter-looping.




Edited by debraj - 04/05/2011 at 1:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 1:55pm
yep couldn't agree more. Thats why you don't see many juniors or people that were coached being too passive. They will hardly push too. 
Unless of course their natural game style was different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 4:19pm
Maybe I am from old school too, but counter-loop, and BH\FH flick are the last things that I learned, and I rarely use them in game (only when I am well ahead, or hopelessly behide Smile).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 9:33pm
Yes mhnh, if you haven't been coached that is the natural way to play. But kids now are coached counter looping first with the expectations(or hope) that they will all reach national level and need to use that shot all the time. When they play each other they do in fact counter loop to each other no matter the level they are playing at. In normal club play there's no real advantage with either style
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jobaumi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2011 at 3:23pm
In my opinion the best Blade for Palio Thor's is Ma lin Carbon.
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