Sounds like some good matchups, I sure hope Joo will win his, it's getting harder and harder to be a defender these days with so many losing to just average loopers.

I don't know why players with pips on the backhand don't use a reverse shakehand backhand. There's a player at my club who does that for 90% of his backhands because he has anti on the other side and he loops great with it. Moving your fingers a little cant be harder than twiddling. I know Ruwen Filus twiddles to unleash a backhand inverted loop sometimes, but I've seen him get caught between twiddles when it comes back. But so many pros twiddle so easily...mainly for close chops, but still, that's a debate for a whole other topic. They probably don't do it due it and long pips hitting due to the lowered level of consistency and reliability.

Jonan wrote: I don't know why players with pips on the backhand don't use a reverse shakehand backhand. There's a player at my club who does that for 90% of his backhands because he has anti on the other side and he loops great with it. Moving your fingers a little cant be harder than twiddling. I know Ruwen Filus twiddles to unleash a backhand inverted loop sometimes, but I've seen him get caught between twiddles when it comes back. But so many pros twiddle so easily...mainly for close chops, but still, that's a debate for a whole other topic. They probably don't do it due it and long pips hitting due to the lowered level of consistency and reliability.

"reverse shakehand backhand" or RSB.  yeah, that sounds a whole lot better... 

ruwen filus...  yeah, i've noticed the same thing....

the only pro chopper i've seen try the RSB is hou yingchao.  a month or so ago some russian guy posted some highlight vids from the russian league championships and i noticed that hou, who plays there now, tried it once in one of the vids.  he missed...

anyhow, i still say that this is what choppers at the top level need to do.  consistency and reliability are not real issues for people who are able to train 6 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.  it's just a matter of learning the proper timing and footwork.


Edited by takaaki - 02/27/2011 at 8:36pm

TTNoobie wrote: they even took cctv5 off sopcast it seems.  I bet it's the NBA's doing

yep, you're probably right about that.  they're going around the whole damn world and cracking down on those P2P sites.

i think i found at least one place where we can access CCTV5, but i won't put it up until late tonight, cuz, well, ya never know, they are probably monitoring this forum, too.

ok, here are 2 links to CCTV5.  i dunno if the 2nd link will work outside of china.

http://www.tv14.net/cctv5/
http://bugu.cntv.cn/live_cctv5/index.shtml

and here's a tv station list of china:  http://delicast.com/tv/China and the 1st link on the list is CCTV5.

ok, so it starts at 6:30 ET this morning.  enjoy!!


Edited by takaaki - 03/01/2011 at 12:37am

johnny89atc wrote: It started some minutes ago with Joo Se Hyuk vs Apolonia Tiago!

Joo win 3-0 !

Here's the VOD

http://bugu.cntv.cn/sports/information/cctv5tiyusaishi/videopage/index.shtml

What download video from bugu.cntv.cn ? or someone upload full match,please

Crisan -Tang Peng 3-2

takaaki wrote: wow, what a surprise!!  i was expecting tang to win that one easily!

Highlights of the first day on YOUTUBE: (Thx to ttprovider)

Zhang Jike-Vladimir Samsonov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pZkNCwN2KQ

Jun Mizutani-Timo Boll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rRNTrziYJw

Joo Se Hyuk-Tiago Apolonia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWItr_LT4Aw

Chuang Chih Yuan-Werner Schlager
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viw-ibuIxZ0

Tang Peng-Adrian Crisan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc7R4UEMNWk

takaaki wrote: y'know, i'm beginning to think that the "chopping game" has become obsolete. why?  cuz it's a "one-shot" game.  and if your opponent can get back your one shot then what else are you gonna do??

You clearly have no understanding for what it means to be a defender, and a modern defender at that. It's not about getting it on. It's about deception (spin variation) and setting up your attacks with your defence. Something that Joo Se Hyuk does exceptionally.

takaaki wrote: i used to think that so-called choppers needed to flip the racket and loop with the BH sometimes, but. now, i realize that's just too difficult to do, and so, it's just not practical.

But what would that achieve? From that distance you wouldn't get the control and consistency that you could from a forehand. Besides, a backhand chop is just as dangerous as an attack. There are times when you can't see the spin imparted and are literally forced to guess (chopping below the table height).

takaaki wrote: lately, i've been thinking that joo and other choppers should experiment with a modified seemiller-style BH loop, like in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TACSHOW123#p/u/88/fkxuf9SNX6I -- scroll to the 11-second, 29-second and 45-second marks. and here also (same guy): http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TACSHOW123#p/u/58/sB5ujZuF2wI -- scroll to the 33-second mark.

Why? Joo can attack from his backhand if he wants. It's just better to chop. Greater consistency and deception out do a spinny backhand anyday. Look at his match against Zhang Jike in the Chinese Superleague(where he won, might I add).

takaaki wrote: the top players nowadays are much better than they used to be, so now you just can't be too predictable unless you know for sure that you can make the other guy miss.  so, i think that so-called choppers need to have a rethink.  they need to play an allround game like everyone else, except that they chop a higher percentage of the balls back than the other players.

Why are they "so-called choppers"?

It's not about predictability. All the top players, including the Chinese, that it's not a matter of predictability as much as it is the ability to perform and execute strategies; be consistent; fast enough etc.

I don't even understand how you can say they need to be more allround. Chopping is their style. In fact, for about six months when Joo was almost a classic defender he beat pretty well every euro player he encountered and had good success in the Chinese superleague. Then recently he's gone to attacking more and has taken players like Ma Long to 4-2 with game points in three of the games - all at thirty years of age.

takaaki wrote: if joo and his female chopper teammates had this modified seemiller bh loop, then when their opponents go to the bh, they won't know if they're gonna get a loop or a chop back.  and, though, i'm not a chopper, it looks to me like you can set up as though you're gonna chop and still pull off this loop, so when your opponents are looking at your stance for the next shot, they won't be able to tell you're about to loop or chop. anyhow, right now, at the top level, it's "over-predictability" (to coin a phrase) that will lose the game for you.

First of all, you can disguise a hit with pips as a chop. Joo does it all the time. As a top player it is still quite obvious which ones they'll chop or not. If they loop one that isn't obvious then it'll be weaker and less effective. It's a catch 22. Again, they set up the attack with the backhand. Or outrightly win points through spin variation. Attacking is superfluos and only necessary to ensure they don't feed you junk loops. It's like insurance.

EDIT: What I mean is that as long as they 'can' attack with their pips and forehand they ensure the other player needs to constantly attack.

Predictability, like I said, has nothing to do with this.

takaaki wrote: the game has changed.  the chinese are changing, but it appears that top players from the rest of the world are not.  if they want to win, they're gonna have to evolve with the game, period. edit:  y'know, it would be nice if he (and his female teammates) waited till the world championships in may to pull that shot out of the bag...

How are is the rest of the world not? Samsonov has never lost to Joo and Boll has lost just twice. Your statement would be more true had it said "People out of the top 10" and not "rest of the world".

Re your edit: They're constantly changing their style. Given your post I think you're probably unable to tell this. Over the years their tactics and shots have changed significantly. They need to change to keep up with everyone else. But that's not exclusive to jsut them. All players need to.

Edited by Guy Fleegman - 03/01/2011 at 9:27pm

Euro vs Asia 2011 - Timo Boll vs Jun Mizutani

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtYLdM0StTw

Euro vs Asia 2011 - Zhang Jike vs Vladimir Samsonov

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSGuH3KiDZE

Euro vs Asia 2011 - Joo See Hyuk vs Thiago Apolonia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plKCJjD2yPA

Euro vs Asia 2011 - Werner Schalger vs Chuan Chih Yuan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppkx4GdfZfg

I am glad Schlager is playing, thanks a lot for the videos.

2nd part is broadcasting LIVE in cctv5 NOW!