The 2011 Volkswagen Cup...

ejmaster wrote: pong pong, in the world cup also play chinese players and in the ittf pro tour.   1 of the wcup he beats in a row wlq, ma lin, whao.   not even waldner has 3 european championships. Maybe you think to win 1 is easy but the history shows that to win 3 it is not.   that is not bla bla, these are wins, facts.   toc toc.

I think a player's ultimate greatness is defined how close he/she is to achieve a career "Grand Slam".  Only Waldner & Liu Guoliang did it, and Kong Linghui came close, I believe...

Timo is far off, with only World Cup title to show so far, unfortunately.

I think that Kong Linghui also won the three major titles: Olympics, World Champinoship and World Cup...


You are right... I think Liu Guoliang also has all the major titles in doubles...The only player to have ever done so.


Edited by roundrobin - 03/26/2011 at 3:34pm

ejmaster wrote: Timo Boll has a privileged position in the tt history because:   Timo Boll is facing the hardest field in the tt history. And the higuest level of tt playing ever.   I mean the poor Ma Long or XuXin or ZJK who also never won a world championship would eat alive Kong Linghui or Persson or Gatien in their peak time. And i wouldn't bet to Waldner or Liu Guoliang very confident.   I remember Kong Lingui (as good as always more or less) losing to a bad level Chen qi in the wttch i think 4-0. I can imagine now.   And Timo Boll is fighting with chances.   So at present he is the only non chinese player having a seat fighting competitive in the hardest TT field of the history.   Waldner in Manchester 97 won Samsonov in the final, and Primorac, Gatien, Yan Sen who i do not think it is the same level of playing as Wlq, Ma Lin and Wang Hao in the World Cup Timo Boll won.   And i do not want to talk about Jiang Jiliang because in his peak time i do not think he is able to win a set against wang hao or ma lin or ma long ....   Records and numbers handled without knowledge and analysis drive to results without perspective.

This is what I've been saying. When looked at from this perspective Timo is achieving something incredibly difficult. I'm not trying to knock Waldner, Linghui, and Guoliang but you are right. They're peaks were only amazing relative to the competition that existed at the time.

with speed glue and 38 mm ball, ma long, zjk, xxin, ma lin, whao, wlq and the rest would also eat alive those former champions. 

Maybe part of the problem is that Europe does not have anyone else at present who can challenge the Chinese on a consistent basis as Boll does. If Maze could maintain fitness, form and get his approach/tactics right I believe he could still challenge as he has the ability and proven this in the past eg beating WH, HS in worlds, or if there were other player/s who could challenge Boll within Europe and be in the top 5 in the World and be beating the Chinese some of the time then in my view this would breed more confidence for European players on the whole and make them stronger technically and mentally. A perfect example of this is Sweden in the late 80's to the early 2000's with Appelgren, Waldner, Persson, Lindh. Vladi was high in the rankings for many years and did beat Boll often at first but has never really threatened the Chinese. As I see it, Timo is now close to the very high level required to win the World or Olympic title but must improve subtle areas of his game to surprise the opponent and keep them guessing. And fitness must also be at the peak. There is another question here which is, is the level of competition within Europe on the whole now weaker making Boll look better than he is or is the level and dominance in China so continually high now over many years therefore increasing the gap and making it even harder for the rest of the world?

Edited by riker71 - 03/27/2011 at 6:25am

kong linghui had a USATT rating of 2911, ma lin 2899, waldner 2870, Timo Boll 2801.

roundrobin wrote: I think that Kong Linghui also won the three major titles: Olympics, World Champinoship and World Cup... You are right... I think Liu Guoliang also has all the major titles in doubles...The only player to have ever done so.

addoydude wrote: kong linghui had a USATT rating of 2911, ma lin 2899, waldner 2870, Timo Boll 2801.

USATT ratings are statistically irrelevant here - those guys played one, at most two USATT-rated tournaments... ever.

kumn812, cypress rpb. ok, ok, no more questions. pffffffff, lol.