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RPB power and positioning.

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    Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:34am
Is there any way to improve the RPB power? I recently started playing against people with a higher skill cap and I've found out about a big weakness of mine because I can't seem to generate enough power with my RPB to finish the point, All I can manage to do is produce a very spinny,low arc,medium speed semi-loop kill that my opponents can have a field day with. and flat hitting doesn't work either, its even weaker....
Also, does anyone else have the problem of automatically closing the racket when attempting to loop due to the grip? I've tried opening and closing the racket to suit the opponent's incoming spin but when I have to open the racket, I can't seen to generate enough power with my arm but then I resort to bend my wrist down, resulting in sinking the ball to the net all the times.

And there is the positioning too, what is the best way to position for a RPB'er? I usually stand right in the middle of the left side but I've found out that I can't seem to cover my backhand well in there and I can't do a comfortable RPB loop in there, everytime I have to do a rpb, I have to lean a bit to the right side if my opponent loops it to the far left even though im the middle of the left side. even worse if the incoming loop is very low, I can't seem to hit rpb and 70%of the times I resort to do a traditional block...

Thanks a lot in advance. and sorry about the wall of text.Sleepy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaolinTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 12:14pm
A non-tacky, Japanese / European style rubber would probably work better for RPB.  It will lighten your set up too.  : )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 2:20pm
I moved to Roundell Hard 2.1, this rubber gave me all I want on RPB.. speed and spin is killer.. obviously Hurricane 2 is hard to play with -.-!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krantz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 3:03pm
For RPB power shots try to not use your wrist during a stroke – just let the racket follow your hand. It will result in a Kreanga style backhand and, with some additional body weight transfer, it really hits like a truck. (His instructions from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywG5kmOCfWE pretty much all apply..)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by Krantz Krantz wrote:

For RPB power shots try to not use your wrist during a stroke – just let the racket follow your hand. It will result in a Kreanga style backhand and, with some additional body weight transfer, it really hits like a truck. (His instructions from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywG5kmOCfWE pretty much all apply..)

 With penhold it doesn't feel normal.. you may injure your shoulder.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krantz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Sallom89 Sallom89 wrote:

Originally posted by Krantz Krantz wrote:

For RPB power shots try to not use your wrist during a stroke – just let the racket follow your hand. It will result in a Kreanga style backhand and, with some additional body weight transfer, it really hits like a truck. (His instructions from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywG5kmOCfWE pretty much all apply..)

 With penhold it doesn't feel normal.. you may injure your shoulder.. 

Well, I dont claim that it is a "proper" way of a penholder - it just works (and i dont know any better method atm, try it btwWink). It is a fluent stroke overall and you don't stress any muscless or bones any more than in your usual forehand swing. IMO there is a much bigger risk of injuring your wrist if you are using it in a strong rpb shot.. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rick_ys_ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 5:27pm
Except the penholder grip, RPB is a technique almost the same as handshake backhand, no matter it is about looping or flat hitting using backhand.  You can learn from a good handshake player about power generation and positioning when doing RPB stroke, IMHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by Krantz Krantz wrote:

Originally posted by Sallom89 Sallom89 wrote:

Originally posted by Krantz Krantz wrote:

For RPB power shots try to not use your wrist during a stroke – just let the racket follow your hand. It will result in a Kreanga style backhand and, with some additional body weight transfer, it really hits like a truck. (His instructions from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywG5kmOCfWE pretty much all apply..)

 With penhold it doesn't feel normal.. you may injure your shoulder.. 

Well, I dont claim that it is a "proper" way of a penholder - it just works (and i dont know any better method atm, try it btwWink). It is a fluent stroke overall and you don't stress any muscless or bones any more than in your usual forehand swing. IMO there is a much bigger risk of injuring your wrist if you are using it in a strong rpb shot.. 


 My wrist was never injured or in pain.. but with RPB doing Krenga's technique your fingers will end up pointing to the ceiling, which 'locks' the shoulder! my coach (shakehander) was trying to teach me RPB with Kenga's technique then normal SH technique, he was giving instructions like you are doing right now.. "with out trying them", but he noticed that this is not the correct way and he ACCEPTED it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by rick_ys_ho rick_ys_ho wrote:

Except the penholder grip, RPB is a technique almost the same as handshake backhand, no matter it is about looping or flat hitting using backhand.  You can learn from a good handshake player about power generation and positioning when doing RPB stroke, IMHO.

 NO :S 
I played with a EX Egyptian national team member and he insisted that he can do RPB with SH technique.. I swear that I almost played 10 balls and all of them hit the edge of the blade (center ply).. till he gave up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 7:44pm

Here is a match video of my self.. not the best technique ever, and I improved since that time.. Also having a harder rubber now, my blocking is better and my looping is more consistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krantz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Sallom89 Sallom89 wrote:

(...)

 My wrist was never injured or in pain.. but with RPB doing Krenga's technique your fingers will end up pointing to the ceiling, which 'locks' the shoulder! my coach (shakehander) was trying to teach me RPB with Kenga's technique then normal SH technique, he was giving instructions like you are doing right now.. "with out trying them", but he noticed that this is not the correct way and he ACCEPTED it.

I would suggest that your trainer should immediately send  a proper  note to Wang Hao (this famous Chinese TT player) because he obviously doesn’t realize that he’s continually hurting his body (you can try to find differences between Kreanga and Hao backhand in this video btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHKvjVO0WY, I’am reffering to Hao’s strokes from 1:20 – and many others too obviously).

It’s a shame that a member of a national team cannot use his backhand properly , but I assure you that I (granted that it is not only after few months of playing with penhold) am doing it without problems – and I was trying to explain HOW I’am doing it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by Krantz Krantz wrote:

Originally posted by Sallom89 Sallom89 wrote:

(...)

 My wrist was never injured or in pain.. but with RPB doing Krenga's technique your fingers will end up pointing to the ceiling, which 'locks' the shoulder! my coach (shakehander) was trying to teach me RPB with Kenga's technique then normal SH technique, he was giving instructions like you are doing right now.. "with out trying them", but he noticed that this is not the correct way and he ACCEPTED it.

I would suggest that your trainer should immediately send  a proper  note to Wang Hao (this famous Chinese TT player) because he obviously doesn’t realize that he’s continually hurting his body (you can try to find differences between Kreanga and Hao backhand in this video btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHKvjVO0WY, I’am reffering to Hao’s strokes from 1:20 – and many others too obviously).

It’s a shame that a member of a national team cannot use his backhand properly , but I assure you that I (granted that it is not only after few months of playing with penhold) am doing it without problems – and I was trying to explain HOW I’am doing it.



 WHO ARE YOU?! are you better than Wang Hao? how dare you compare injuries to technique on the top level? ok then.. Ma Long technique is flawed because he got injured, Timo boll, Ma Lin.. who else? the list goes on.. those guys play ALOT, any sport at the highest level can make a player suffer from injury.

 If Wang Hao doesn't use his backhand properly then who does? please cut this silly conversation, it is obvious that you are misleading a guy who is seeking help.. shakehand technique for RPB.. next thing you'll say is very unpredictable I bet.. BTW, I miss seeing you on the top level.Dead

And please show us HOW you are doing it on video, so we can benefit from you.. thanks in advance.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:17pm
one last note my friend.. on the top level strokes need to be compact so you recover fast, using wrist is obviously faster to recover from.

please use common sense..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krantz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:26pm
My bad that i assumed that you can read since you make impression that you can write. And please dont try to teach anybody showing him your "technique". 

Good luck in future endeavours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Krantz Krantz wrote:

My bad that i assumed that you can read since you make impression that you can write. And please dont try to teach anybody showing him (((((your)))) "technique". 

Good luck in future endeavours.


Originally posted by Krantz Krantz wrote:

 I was trying to explain (((((('HOW' I’am doing it.))))))


 Ok Shakespeare Clap
when you explain how you are doing it, then it does mean explaining your way and therefore teaching it.. at least English is my second language and I don't brag about it.. 

 Pointless discussion, this obviously won't make me a better player.. so I'll step on it and climb to the next level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rick_ys_ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by Sallom89 Sallom89 wrote:

Originally posted by rick_ys_ho rick_ys_ho wrote:

Except the penholder grip, RPB is a technique almost the same as handshake backhand, no matter it is about looping or flat hitting using backhand.  You can learn from a good handshake player about power generation and positioning when doing RPB stroke, IMHO.

 NO :S 
I played with a EX Egyptian national team member and he insisted that he can do RPB with SH technique.. I swear that I almost played 10 balls and all of them hit the edge of the blade (center ply).. till he gave up.
 
I did not say that a SH player can play RPB or teach RPB. I didn't mean that, because the grip is very different.
 
OP wants to know how to improve power in RPB stroke and positioning when doing the stroke. The power generation and positioning in RPB is fundamentally the same as SH backhand, that is what I tried to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 12:01am
+1 to non-tacky jap or euro rubber on BH. Sriver is a good one to start with your YE. There are two BH loop variations: side loop like European players, or the underneath center style like Chinese players. See this coaching clip below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTo8YO4Ckhc. It talked about both Shakehand and RPB styles in Chinese. I personally think you can borrow from both variations, with more or less wrist movement of your liking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaolinTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 1:12am
Nice instruction video, simon.  Thanks.

Here is Wang JJ demonstrating his RPB.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_fpbkzp-7o

Rogson, you mention "RPB power", but the well "placement" of a RPB shot is important too, probably most important.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zheyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 1:16am
interesting debates there! why not post both your videos side by side to show your differe nces?
challenge??? maybe i will post mine after yours :P
I know many uses shakehand techniques on rpb, but there's more in rpbs.. e.g. the backspin loops...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 8:34am
I've posted mine and would like to see your technique guys, would be intiresting to see Zheyi's! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zheyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:31am
yeah.. i be having a double competition soon. will post it here.. so keep bumping this trend :p
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hope that we will do :p
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2011 at 3:29pm
Thanks ShaolinTT. I like the Wang, Jian Jun's new RPB stroke since he moved away from simulating Ryu's Jpen. He seems to be playing YEO as well, not a big swing for his newly developed RPB.
 
I put up a clip of mine during my practicing with my club mates. I recently practiced more on my strokes against top spin, and now working on more attacking agaist backspin. Of course, you know it's different when you are trying to do RPB during tournament. Anyhow, for your laugh, but also open for suggestions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isIxJV9r0oM


Edited by simon_xuan - 04/03/2011 at 3:36pm
RPB Rocks!
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very nice strokes u have! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2011 at 11:02pm
Thanks Zheyi. I am still working on it. But from EJ perspective, I did stick with Yasaka blades a lot. My recent favorite bh rubber is Donic Barracuda.

Oh, back to RPB power. I think it pays to notice the position you rip the ball back. Usually I feel more at control when returning loops at top of the bounce or a little bit earlier than the top, if that make sense. At this point, I can borrow whatever is coming toward me and double it with my forward stroke. At the point, I still use RPB to push the opponents to return weak balls and finish the point with my forehand. But that's more tactics than strokes. But I have to agree RPB for penhold, at least to me, if not as powerful as shakehander at the same level. Like ShaolinTT said, the placement is a art.


Edited by simon_xuan - 04/04/2011 at 11:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 12:01am
Thanks for the videos, you got a nice form simon, I wonder whether I can use it as a guideline Smile
After digging and thinking fora bit, it looks like my lack of power comes from only using the wrist and a small part of the forehand or only using the wrist(most of the times)....
Placement is very important as well but when my opponent extends the game into a rally I end up only lobbing or blocking if meh opponent goes BH happymode.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 10:59am
H2 may not be the best rubber for you on the BH. You might have to hit it real hard to "hit through" the DHS sponge in order to generate enough spin. Plus the arc is low, and you may have difficulty to clear the net. It might be the reason you ended up resorting to lobbing and defense. Understanding the RPB weakness, I used more spinny and bouncy rubber on the BH. Please note, I am only talking about TT lover and amateur level. How professional do their trick is beyond the discussion. Have fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chris.b40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 11:13am
Originally posted by simon_xuan simon_xuan wrote:

H2 may not be the best rubber for you on the BH. You might have to hit it real hard to "hit through" the DHS sponge in order to generate enough spin. Plus the arc is low, and you may have difficulty to clear the net. It might be the reason you ended up resorting to lobbing and defense. Understanding the RPB weakness, I used more spinny and bouncy rubber on the BH. Please note, I am only talking about TT lover and amateur level. How professional do their trick is beyond the discussion. Have fun.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rogson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 12:20pm
According to reviews, H2 has a low-throw angle so this MAY be the reason I am scared of using RPB and resorting to block/lob. Will try twiddling my paddle to see how it works, I didn't really think equipment affected one's technique in a noticeable level.... and if it doesn't work, time to switch techniques (ugh)
Thanks for that, will try it as soon as I am able to.


Edited by Rogson - 04/05/2011 at 12:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon_xuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2011 at 3:10pm
Trust me, the equipment makes the different. You need to mix and match until you found your gear is "tuned up" properly. Then you probably don't want change the setup, or you will break the balancing dynamics.
RPB Rocks!
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