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New Ball to be Introduced after London Olympics

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/23/2011 at 4:16pm
Regarding the tolerance, I found this on OOAK, from a reply made by Adham;

"The only change, which has nothing to do with the new balls, but is a modification to the current rules (regardless of the type of ball) is that the size tolerance will be implemented only upwards. "

Which to me reads out as the new tolerance will apply for both the new plastic balls and celluloid balls.

The entire answer can be read here:

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17296
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/23/2011 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Regarding the tolerance, I found this on OOAK, from a reply made by Adham;

"The only change, which has nothing to do with the new balls, but is a modification to the current rules (regardless of the type of ball) is that the size tolerance will be implemented only upwards. "

Which to me reads out as the new tolerance will apply for both the new plastic balls and celluloid balls.


If your quote is correct, then it's content is a complete BS, because the new tolerance will not apply to celluloid balls. Here is the full text of the decision passed (proposition 22 on the page 9):

"Proposed by the Equipment Committee
 
To modify Technical Leaflet T3, The Ball (B.3 Size conformity); only
applying to balls not made of celluloid
 
The minimum diameter of every ball must be  at least  39.50mm 40.00mm and  its maximum diameter must not exceed  40.50mm 40.60mm. The sample mean average diameter, i.e. the mean of the average of the maximum and minimum diameters for each ball, must be in the range  39.60-40.40mm  40.00-40.50mm.   Values below 39.25mm 39.70mm or above 40.75mm are considered in our calculations as outliers.
"

Please, pay close attention to the words "only applying to balls not made of celluloid".

http://www.ittf.com/world_events/wttc_2011/Propositions_to_AGM_BoD_2011_Results_updated.pdf


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/23/2011 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Regarding the tolerance, I found this on OOAK, from a reply made by Adham;

"The only change, which has nothing to do with the new balls, but is a modification to the current rules (regardless of the type of ball) is that the size tolerance will be implemented only upwards. "

Which to me reads out as the new tolerance will apply for both the new plastic balls and celluloid balls.

The entire answer can be read here:

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17296


I already posted the specific rule change and it clearly creates two standards.  You could look it up yourself if you don't believe me.  I guess I should have posted a link as well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2011 at 1:27am
Sure, sure, the new size specifications 40--40.5mm is only mandatory for plastic balls to come afterwards, not for celluloid balls now in use.
Truth to say, the bigger balls of celluloid material would come somewhat a disaster on the manufacturers, as a greater diameter will mean a thinner ball's shell and a poor quality.

Earlier in the years 1998-2005, there was a number of production experiments to create celluloid specimens exactly of 40mm and yet of good quality. No luck at all.
ALL the specimens would come out with a thin, brittle shell, short of lifespan and were deemed unmarketable.
So. manfrs have had no other choice but to restrict the ball diameter to the lower size end.
Now you can understand why balls of celluloid, other than <40mm, can not be found on market nowdays.

NB.This info by courtesy of a fellow umpire of mines who has a great passion of tt-collectibles and is well-read about how the pingpong industry works.



Edited by igorponger - 09/24/2011 at 2:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2011 at 2:10am
Upwards is not synonymous with henceforth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 탁구초보 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2011 at 12:17pm
So will all ITTF tournaments start using these 40mm balls? I'm kind of lost...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2011 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by 탁구초보 탁구초보 wrote:

So will all ITTF tournaments start using these 40mm balls? I'm kind of lost...


a side note: would be nice if you changed your username to something readable - this is an English-language forum after all and we need to address each other in that language.. somehow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2011 at 12:59pm
For instance TT Newby Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2011 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Earlier in the years 1998-2005, there was a number of production experiments to create celluloid specimens exactly of 40mm and yet of good quality. No luck at all.
ALL the specimens would come out with a thin, brittle shell, short of lifespan and were deemed unmarketable.
So. manfrs have had no other choice but to restrict the ball diameter to the lower size end.


Yeah, but it is just your guess. Anyway, even if it is true (unlike your information about plastic balls already in use at the ITTF tournaments), the problem could be solved by increasing the weight of the ball (requires a rule change) and not by changing the material (requires lying about "celluloid ban", hazards, being not allowed on planes etc.).

Sucking money out the players still remains the likeliest motivation behind the whole thing, imho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2011 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Earlier in the years 1998-2005, there was a number of production experiments to create celluloid specimens exactly of 40mm and yet of good quality. No luck at all.
ALL the specimens would come out with a thin, brittle shell, short of lifespan and were deemed unmarketable.
So. manfrs have had no other choice but to restrict the ball diameter to the lower size end.


Yeah, but it is just your guess. Anyway, even if it is true (unlike your information about plastic balls already in use at the ITTF tournaments), the problem could be solved by increasing the weight of the ball (requires a rule change) and not by changing the material (requires lying about "celluloid ban", hazards, being not allowed on planes etc.).

Sucking money out the players still remains the likeliest motivation behind the whole thing, imho.


a new plot by the bearded for slowing down the playing again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2011 at 7:55pm
Are these new balls (40 mm, seamless, made from composite material or plastic) available for purchase now?
 
I can not find any place to sell those balls via Internet search.  I believe there are some people who would like to buy a small quantity to try it out, if available.
 
If available, please provide the link.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2011 at 11:18pm
Not yet, as soon as I see some I'm buying them so I can get used to it early but I haven't seen any yet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2011 at 2:33am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by 탁구초보 탁구초보 wrote:

So will all ITTF tournaments start using these 40mm balls? I'm kind of lost...


a side note: would be nice if you changed your username to something readable - this is an English-language forum after all and we need to address each other in that language.. somehow.


I just pronounce it "hmprndt" or sometimes I pronounce it as "hmorptd"  it all depends.  I'm not sure why I think it start with an "hm" but that works for me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2011 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by bluebucket bluebucket wrote:

Not yet, as soon as I see some I'm buying them so I can get used to it early but I haven't seen any yet
====================================================
 
I want to buy some too, to try it out early.
 
So, if ANYONE finds out that there is a place selling that kind of seamless ball that ITTF will introduce after 2012 olympic games, PLEASE LET ALL OF US KNOW.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 1:39am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by bluebucket bluebucket wrote:

Not yet, as soon as I see some I'm buying them so I can get used to it early but I haven't seen any yet

====================================================
 

I want to buy some too, to try it out early.

 

So, if ANYONE finds out that there is a place selling that kind of seamless ball that ITTF will introduce after 2012 olympic games, PLEASE LET ALL OF US KNOW.


During a meeting of ITTF Board of Directors, that on March 29, in Dortmund Renaissance Mariot Hotell,   DHS manufacturer will held an official presentation of the new 40 mm plastic balls to be marketed worldwide from June1 on.
All the BOD's members participating will be donated a box of the balls as a keepsake, and so will be members of ITTF Equipment Commeetties during their meeting tomorrow, on March 30.

If you feel urgent for the balls, go to the Meeting Room and ask DHS vendors a box or two.

Good luck.
--------------
:Have got this info from a fellow umpire of mine who is now on duty in Dortmund's WTC venue.
Hopefully he will be lucky enought to get some balls for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTeveryday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 3:05am
They're 40mm? I thought it was going to be a tad bigger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttEDGE - William Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2012 at 3:20pm
Here is a preview of the new plastic balls that Wang Liqin gave me in Dortmund last week.

NewPlasticBallsVideo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2012 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by ttEDGE - William ttEDGE - William wrote:

Here is a preview of the new plastic balls that Wang Liqin gave me in Dortmund last week.

NewPlasticBallsVideo


Thanks! It gives me a basic idea...and one surprize...that the ball broke that quickly!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttEDGE - William Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2012 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:


Thanks! It gives me a basic idea...and one surprize...that the ball broke that quickly!


We were surprised and disappointed. Our first thought was 'this is gonna make the manufacturers a lot of money'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2012 at 4:25pm
William....thanks for that little video update on the new ball.  What you found out with that experience is pretty much what I felt the new plastic ball would be like, except for the spin test for roundness. WOW  that was pretty surprising to see it was wobbling and not more perfect than the average high quality 3 star ball.  To me, that seems like the biggest downfall right there.  I wonder what the result would be if you got a box of 100 or so to spin test.

After you and a few others got to hit with the new ball and tested different serves, returns, spins, and such.....were you left with thinking something like.... " I will need firmer sponge with more tack or grip on the top sheet, and also a faster blade" ?

After all this time and getting this in depth report......seems like the change will either be longer off then we thought......or many are going to be more upset with this change than the other big changes in the sport.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttEDGE - William Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2012 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Rich215 Rich215 wrote:

William....thanks for that little video update on the new ball.  What you found out with that experience is pretty much what I felt the new plastic ball would be like, except for the spin test for roundness. WOW  that was pretty surprising to see it was wobbling and not more perfect than the average high quality 3 star ball.  To me, that seems like the biggest downfall right there.  I wonder what the result would be if you got a box of 100 or so to spin test.

After you and a few others got to hit with the new ball and tested different serves, returns, spins, and such.....were you left with thinking something like.... " I will need firmer sponge with more tack or grip on the top sheet, and also a faster blade" ?

After all this time and getting this in depth report......seems like the change will either be longer off then we thought......or many are going to be more upset with this change than the other big changes in the sport.
 


The jury is still out on those questions Rich. Very difficult to know if rubbers / blades will need to be changed. The end ball product may be different as it is obviously unacceptable that a ball breaks after 2 minutes.

Considering we almost had to go through a box of 100 DHS balls to find a decent one to play with at the Oceania Olympic qualifying, I hate to think! The change is set for July 1, 2014 and I have a feeling it will be stuck to whatever happens. I am hopeful that this will be a good change, despite the track record of other recent changes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2012 at 5:10pm
Thanks William
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2012 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by ttEDGE - William ttEDGE - William wrote:


The jury is still out on those questions Rich. Very difficult to know if rubbers / blades will need to be changed.


William, were you able to produce the same amount of spin with the balls you tested?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2012 at 6:28pm
How did you get the balls from Wang Liqin? Does he know some english?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2012 at 12:57am

Because of the plastic distressing fragility and decreased lifespan it is most likely that the present DHS Plastic Balls will NEVER catch at mass level unless the weight standard is revised.. ..

The only thing to help would be increasing ball weight to 2.8gr (weight allowance 2.77--2.90gr) so as to enable balls with a thicker shell and more durable.

Hopefully ITTF will address the issue of the ball durability in good time before the balls get started at marketplaces. Hopefully...... .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2012 at 1:02am
Dont make the weight more, reduce the size to what it used to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttEDGE - William Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2012 at 2:51am
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

William, were you able to produce the same amount of spin with the balls you tested?


No, less spin for sure.

Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

How did you get the balls from Wang Liqin? Does he know some english?


We are both on the ITTF Athletes Commission and he was handing the balls out to all the members. His English is limited apparently so he has a translator come along too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2012 at 3:04am
Originally posted by ttEDGE - William ttEDGE - William wrote:

The change is set for July 1, 2014 and I have a feeling it will be stuck to whatever happens. I am hopeful that this will be a good change, despite the track record of other recent changes.
 
Great video and much appreciated by everyone, I'm sure.  I was quite happy when they pushed it back to 2014 but I'm not convinced that that date is fixed either.  Unlike the unenforcable rule regarding boosters, the change to plastic balls won't work if the technology isn't there.  The fact that ITTF has already postponed the change twice suggests that they understand this.
 
By the way, I heard that when the last tested plastic balls (late 70s to early 80s), the problem wasn't just cracks in the ball but also dents.  It seemed that if you hit the sharp edge of your paddle those balls didn't return to proper shape. Do you experience this at all?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2012 at 4:24am
William,
 
You had Wang Liqin handing the balls out to you......
You really live in a different world compared to us normal mankind
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttEDGE - William Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2012 at 7:09am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Great video and much appreciated by everyone, I'm sure.  I was quite happy when they pushed it back to 2014 but I'm not convinced that that date is fixed either.  Unlike the unenforcable rule regarding boosters, the change to plastic balls won't work if the technology isn't there.  The fact that ITTF has already postponed the change twice suggests that they understand this.
 
By the way, I heard that when the last tested plastic balls (late 70s to early 80s), the problem wasn't just cracks in the ball but also dents.  It seemed that if you hit the sharp edge of your paddle those balls didn't return to proper shape. Do you experience this at all?


Don't get me started on boosters or I don't know where I will end up... The Athletes Commission very strongly recommended that the new ball be pushed back as it would have been a joke to bring the balls in after the 2012 Olympics. How much weight this carried is hard to say.

I'd say the new date will be final but I don't know for sure. These new balls feel good however the durability question is still hanging and I don't know how much change will be needed to fix it.

It's funny you mention the old old balls! I had another go with the plastic balls this morning (we noticed a huge difference in serves today - much less spin) and Ferenc Karsai (Austrian national coach) whipped out some 38mm plastic balls from the beginning of time. Barna balls that were made in England. The old old plastic ball played better than the new plastic balls and there was less of a difference in spin. Ferenc said that they were very hard and that they were prone to breaking if you happened to hit the ball with the top edge of your racket. He didn't mention dents.

I was born in '82 so a little before my time Smile
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