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seguso View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05/27/2011 at 9:53am
My quest for a high throw Chinese rubber continues... I wonder why it is so difficult to find one. Here is what I've tried so far:

  • DHS NEO hurricane III: low medium throw.

  • DHS hurricane III: low medium throw.

  • DHS hurricane II: low throw.

  • DHS G666: low throw.

  • globe999 40deg 2.2mm: low throw. (I have one worn sheet at 2.0mm and it is high throw though. Weird.)

  • globe999 40deg jap sponge: very low throw. (ordered at eacheng.net)

  • globe999 national: low throw.

  • Galaxy MercuryII 37deg: medium-high throw. (we're almost there, but I want it still higher).

  • Sanwei T88-I: medium-high throw. (almost there, but still too low, and too heavy) very high throw, even slightly higher than T05. (Tested on the same blade with T05 on one side and T88-I on the other.) This rubber is also faster and spinnier than T05. However it has fewer gears, and is about 7 grams heavier.

  • Galaxy moon: medium-low throw.

  • Galaxy Sun: medium throw. Still too low. MercuryII is higher.

  • 729 higher: low throw. (and the name is misleading Angry)

  • Bomb bombard: medium-low.

  • 729 40H: very low (hard to believe someone can use that one).

  • Xiom vega pro: this one had a high or medium-high throw, I don't remember, anyway it is not Chinese nor tacky. I have to give it another try though.

  • Tenergy 05: this has the highest throw, but of course it is not Chinese nor tacky.

  • Sword Hero FT: some black sheets did have a high throw, but others did not. And it is not tacky, and it wasn't 2.2mm.

  • Sword hero enhanced: very low throw.

  • Gambler Outlaw: very low throw.

  • LKT pro XP: low throw.

As you can see, the highest are Galaxy MercuryII and Sanwei T88-I, but still not high as I'd like them. I am about to give up and switch to some European rubber (which one?), or stick with the MercuryII and use a faster blade.
 
So my question is: is there some Chinese rubber with higher throw than those? Maybe I should try Hurricane III no.19 sponge? And what about the new XuShaoFa 999 LSZ II tornado? And what about blue Whale II? Thanks for any help.


Edited by seguso - 07/26/2011 at 9:31am
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why exactly do you want such a high throw rubber? i find hurricane 3 has a pretty high throw. Ofc not as much as tenergy but still pretty high.
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Because with high throw I can be more aggressive and hit hard even on low balls. In particular I can hit with the blade face more closed and the arm moving more forward and less upward, even on a low flat ball, or over the table.

To the contrary, with a low throw rubber, against a low ball, sometimes I have to calm down, open the blade face more and move the arm more upwards than foreward; but in this case, since the blade face is more open, I cannot hit as hard as I want, otherwise the ball goes off the table. So I cannot be aggressive as much as I would.




Edited by seguso - 05/27/2011 at 11:17am
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Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

Because with high throw I can be more aggressive and hit hard even on low balls. In particular I can hit with the blade more closed and the arm moving more forward and less upward, even on a low flat ball, or over the table.

To the contrary, with a low throw rubber, against a low ball, sometimes I have to calm down, open the blade face more and move the arm more upwards than foreward; but in this case, since the blade face is more open, I cannot hit as hard as I want, otherwise the ball goes off the table. So I cannot be aggressive as much as I would.


that's the reason i use h3 over tenergy05. could just be me tho...
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Originally posted by Fruit loop Fruit loop wrote:

Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

Because with high throw I can be more aggressive and hit hard even on low balls. In particular I can hit with the blade more closed and the arm moving more forward and less upward, even on a low flat ball, or over the table.

To the contrary, with a low throw rubber, against a low ball, sometimes I have to calm down, open the blade face more and move the arm more upwards than foreward; but in this case, since the blade face is more open, I cannot hit as hard as I want, otherwise the ball goes off the table. So I cannot be aggressive as much as I would.


that's the reason i use h3 over tenergy05. could just be me tho...


I don't see how this is possible. H3 forces you to open the blade more, and move the arm more upwards, so you have to decrease the arm speed compared to T05, i.e. be less aggressive in some situations.
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LKT Red Diamond - extremely high throw.

Whale II - low-mid throw, like a Globe 999 nat.



Edited by Alex_ping - 05/27/2011 at 11:47am
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Originally posted by Alex_ping Alex_ping wrote:

LKT Red Diamond - extremely high throw.


Thank you, I was about to try it last month, but many users swear this is very low throw :)

So can I ask you what rubbers you are familiar with, what have you been using?
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Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

Originally posted by Fruit loop Fruit loop wrote:

Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:

Because with high throw I can be more aggressive and hit hard even on low balls. In particular I can hit with the blade more closed and the arm moving more forward and less upward, even on a low flat ball, or over the table.

To the contrary, with a low throw rubber, against a low ball, sometimes I have to calm down, open the blade face more and move the arm more upwards than foreward; but in this case, since the blade face is more open, I cannot hit as hard as I want, otherwise the ball goes off the table. So I cannot be aggressive as much as I would.


that's the reason i use h3 over tenergy05. could just be me tho...


I don't see how this is possible. H3 forces you to open the blade more, and move the arm more upwards, so you have to decrease the arm speed compared to T05, i.e. be less aggressive in some situations.


Hurricane is tacky tho, meaning you don't have to engage the sponge as much as tenergy over the table. I've heard that red diamond is pretty close to t05. i havn't tried it tho
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The second highest-throw rubber in my "rating" is Tenergy 05 ;)

Most chinese rubber I've tried (729 Higher, Haifu Whale II, Globe 999 nat.) has low-mid and mid. And several (729 Focus III jap. sponge, Gambler Shadow and Wraith) is a low.
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Maybe in your case you need to update your blade with something slightly faster or bouncier to help you get those balls over the net.

Although, not to doubt your technique, it may be a good idea to take a second look at your technique rather than finding the right equipment to compensate.  I can't help but think that after trying out all that rubber and not finding something that suits you that there has to be a change in technique somewhere.
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Originally posted by Alex_ping Alex_ping wrote:

The second highest-throw rubber in my "rating" is Tenergy 05 ;)

Most chinese rubber I've tried (729 Higher, Haifu Whale II, Globe 999 nat.) has low-mid and mid. And several (729 Focus III jap. sponge, Gambler Shadow and Wraith) is a low.



Damit, you convinced me! Approve I am getting one.

If it is another low throw rubber, you'll feel my wrath. Evil Smile
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Originally posted by Alex_ping Alex_ping wrote:

LKT Red Diamond - extremely high throw.

Whale II - low-mid throw, like a Globe 999 nat.



Seconded, this is very high throw. Not as high of a throw as Tenergy 05 but still very high. Sponge is only a little harder. Tackyness is relatively low but still slightly tacky.
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge
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Originally posted by RyKnocks RyKnocks wrote:

Maybe in your case you need to update your blade with something slightly faster or bouncier to help you get those balls over the net.

Although, not to doubt your technique, it may be a good idea to take a second look at your technique rather than finding the right equipment to compensate.  I can't help but think that after trying out all that rubber and not finding something that suits you that there has to be a change in technique somewhere.


You are probably right, my technique is probably not perfect. However I am periodically trying low throw rubbers; I can even get used to them after a week. It's just that so far I don't see the advantage. To repeat: my impression is that low throw rubbers sometimes force you to open the blade face and use the drive; but I am a looper, I tend to avoid driving and always look for heavy topspin.
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Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by Alex_ping Alex_ping wrote:

LKT Red Diamond - extremely high throw.

Whale II - low-mid throw, like a Globe 999 nat.



Seconded, this is very high throw. Not as high of a throw as Tenergy 05 but still very high. Sponge is only a little harder. Tackyness is relatively low but still slightly tacky.


Thank you general, hearing two voices is reassuring.
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I have Red Diamond on two paddles.  My 729 Bomb and on my BTY BC X5.  So far I use it as a FH rubber. I also have a TBS+T05+Super Anti to compare the Red Diamond to T05.  Red Diamond is close to T05. Unless you are very serious there isn't a  need to pay 5 times as much for T05 as the Red Diamond.

If you need a rubber that is similar to what it can do as T05 I would looke at SST Pro Team.   It is harder though and much more like a traditional Chinese rubber.   It may take some getting used to the difference between SST Pro Team and T05.  

If someone were to ask me for an aggressive but cheap paddle I would suggest a 729 Bomb+SST Pro Team+Red Diamond.  I have RD on my 729 Bomb now.  If I decide not to play with LP I will replace the LP with SST Pro Team.

See Anton's review of SST Pro Team.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38907&PN=1

Now you have a red and black rubber to choose from.



Edited by pnachtwey - 05/27/2011 at 1:41pm
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I've tried LKT Red Diamond GCS after I read a few good reviews here. For my disappointment it turned out to be only slightly tacky, not grippy either, and it bottoms out easily. Maybe I was unlucky and I received a bad sheet, but for me it's not easy to generate spin with it, also when I hit hard the ball leaves the blade quickly because it bottoms out. It feels like Globe 999 on Japanese sponge which I don't like, kinda slick. To be honest I liked Mercury II better, but I had the 34 hardness version and this one it bottoms out too.

Thor's was better, but it's not Chinese and the spin decreases considerably after a month and a half.
In my opinion XuShaoFa with purple sponge is better than Red Diamond. I use this model: http://eacheng.net/index.php?act=detail&ID=2882 . Beware that is harder than Red Diamond, but is much more tacky and spinier. I like hard rubbers with good control in the short game, the ball doesn't bounce uncontrollably at pushes. Loops against long serves and pushes are easier for me compared to RD.
I also have XuShaoFa in black packaging, H3 Neo and BW2 but I haven't opened them yet.
Do not buy this version of XuShaoFa: http://ttnpp.com/shop/xushaofa-lsz-ii-999-tornado-tension-gp-sponge-p-222.html, even if the only review for it says is T05 replacement, the topsheet degrades quickly, after a few session you can see a decolored area where the sweet spot is and it's not spinny.
I tried 729 Transcend SP in the past, IIRC was high throw.

Actually what you really need is speed glue.
I know what you describe, but none of the new Chinese rubbers play like a speed glued rubber despite of what you read on the packaging.
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Giant Dragon TopEnergy has a relatively high throw...but it's on the heavy side.  GD Superspin B3 Hard also has a medium-high - high throw, and the weight is fine.  Looping underspin with TopEnergy is a breeze.  Give them a try.
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I guess it's not that popular at the moment, but 729 Origin surprised me.  Sort of feels like a high-throwing Whale 2 to me.  Not very tacky, but quite fast at the top end.  Sort of a Diet Thor's, if you  will.  I tried it on several fast carbon blades, and it was too quick and high-throwing for me, but you may like that kind of thing...
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Have you tried CJ8000 on 36-38 or 39-41 biotech sponge? Throw is pretty high for being not that tacky. Not as high as T05 but it's pretty close.
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G666 is higher throw than the Hurricanes, but needs a few hits to get up to speed.
The original harder version of Bomb Violent had a really high throw (though strangely it wasn't tacky), newer versions are just not the same.
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Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

I have Red Diamond on two paddles.  My 729 Bomb and on my BTY BC X5.  So far I use it as a FH rubber. I also have a TBS+T05+Super Anti to compare the Red Diamond to T05.  Red Diamond is close to T05.  ...If you need a rubber that is similar to what it can do as T05 I would looke at SST Pro Team.

Thank you pnachtwey. The problem is, somewhere else I recall you questioning the very concept of "throw", and you don't use this word here either, so I am wondering if you really understand what I want.

A comparison of throw between red diamond and Galaxy Moon or Sun or MercuryII would help.

Also, they say that SST pro team has low throw in the same thread you linked. (another problem is ttnpp and eacheng do not seem to sell it).
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Originally posted by JKC JKC wrote:

G666 is higher throw than the Hurricanes, but needs a few hits to get up to speed.
The original harder version of Bomb Violent had a really high throw (though strangely it wasn't tacky), newer versions are just not the same.


Thanks. Actually I forgot to add G666 to the list, but I clearly recall it had a low throw. I did not feel the difference with Hurricane3.

At this point I am not going to trust any suggestion unless they explicitely compare the throw with galaxy moon or sun or mercuryII (the highest chinese rubbers I know) Cry
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Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

Have you tried CJ8000 on 36-38 or 39-41 biotech sponge? Throw is pretty high for being not that tacky. Not as high as T05 but it's pretty close.


Interesting. Have you tried any of the following rubbers? Galaxy Moon, Galaxy Sun, Galaxy MercuryII. Can you compare CJ8000 with either of them? Thank
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Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Giant Dragon TopEnergy has a relatively high throw...


High compared to what? Have you tried Galaxy Moon, Sun or MercuryII? Thanks

Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

but it's on the heavy side.  GD Superspin B3 Hard also has a medium-high - high throw


Again, compared to what? (Sorry for insisting :P)
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h3 neo has high throw, h2 is the low throw rubber.. memo 3 has high throw
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Originally posted by Thot Thot wrote:

...In my opinion XuShaoFa with purple sponge is better than Red Diamond. I use this model: http://eacheng.net/index.php?act=detail&ID=2882 . Beware that is harder than Red Diamond, but is much more tacky and spinier. ...


but what about the throw? How is it compared to the mercuryII you tried? Thanks Embarrassed

Originally posted by Thot Thot wrote:


...
Do not buy this version of XuShaoFa: http://ttnpp.com/shop/xushaofa-lsz-ii-999-tornado-tension-gp-sponge-p-222.html, even if the only review for it says is T05 replacement, the topsheet degrades quickly, after a few session you can see a decolored area where the sweet spot is and it's not spinny.


But how high is the throw? :)

Originally posted by Thot Thot wrote:


I tried 729 Transcend SP in the past, IIRC was high throw.


It's out of production, says eacheng. And 729 higher transcend is no replacement, it is low throw.

Originally posted by Thot Thot wrote:


Actually what you really need is speed glue.
I know what you describe, but none of the new Chinese rubbers play like a speed glued rubber despite of what you read on the packaging.


I think I am going to try some euro rubber like xiom vega pro or acuda s1...
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acuda s1 has a medium throw, vega pro is also medium
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Do you understand what a High Throw rubber is Seguso? You must hit the ball in a very different way to me.
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I don't know what kind of Red Diamond Thot used but the normal stuff has a 45 degree sponge and is quite hard. Much harder than DHS @ 40 degrees, it's not the kind of sponge you can bottom out from the three sheets I've used.  I think both globe 999 and H3 are mid-high throw rubbers, some of the 729 rubbers are higher than those and H2 is low throw. Even with H2 you can make a high throw ball if you want just by slowing your stroke slightly
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Originally posted by seguso seguso wrote:



Originally posted by Thot Thot wrote:


I tried 729 Transcend SP in the past, IIRC was high throw.


It's out of production, says eacheng. And 729 higher transcend is no replacement, it is low throw.

[QUOTE=Thot]



SP Transcend is still available at Zeropong. if it's not high enough throw for you, nothing will be. It's higher than tenergy IMHO. When i used it (for several years), I played as you describe. On low balls just close the blade and rip... here it is: http://zeropong.com/product.php?productid=17668&cat=251&page=1
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