'Chinese looping' before China....

You are missing the point, my friend... Nobody said the Chinese "invented" Chinese looping. 

We are saying that the Chinese are the only ones who are still practicing (and further perfecting) this looping technique today, so it is indeed "Chinese" looping as no other country's players are doing it. 

*Seems like you have a real beef with us calling it "Chinese" style looping... What should we call it then?    (At any rate it's only semantics, as it is a fact that only Chinese players loop this way at world class level today...)

roundrobin wrote: You are missing the point, my friend... Nobody said the Chinese "invented" Chinese looping.  We are saying that the Chinese are the only ones who are still practicing (and further perfecting) this looping technique today, so it is indeed "Chinese" looping as no other country's players are doing it.  *Seems like you have a real beef with us calling it "Chinese" style looping... What should we call it then?    (At any rate it's only semantics, as it is a fact that only Chinese players loop this way at world class level today...)

 There is no 'point'... just that through the many threads on MYTT, there seems to be some kind of Myth that there is a Euro 'chicken wing' style, and a Chinese 'straight arm style' I'm just showing that that this is not true, what i've always said is that a loop is a loop, and I just like to defend the fact that there is a myth that the 'mystical' Chinese coaches came up with the straight arm loop style.  I do agree that they modified it to great effect, but these guys on this tape, along with Dragutin Surbeck, were the farthers of it, the Chinese did not invent it. There is nopt IMO a distinction, at less than international levels I and many players I know and play with play a looping style like these guys, the 'chicken wing' Euro style, which seems top be looked upon with much distain on this forum, is derived from Gatien, and comes from a totally different era, the fact that players such as Timo Boll employ it is just so negligable to a players standard, after all, its just the hammer shot that puts the ball away, the rally is won before4 that on a percentage basis.

Speedplay wrote: Another valied point could be that we don't necessary have to copy the Chinese players and what they do, we can look for further improvements in the game, by not being afraid to do something unconventional. Cause, if all we do is trying to copy the Chinese players, both in style and practice, I think we will find our self being beaten by them for a very long time. They have perfected their style and we need to come up with something to disrupt that perfection.

icontek wrote: no disrespect to danny or eric but hidden rubber before the two color rule was dumber and even more game breaking than hidden service.

Dissagree, not dumber.

APW46 wrote: icontek wrote: no disrespect to danny or eric but hidden rubber before the two color rule was dumber and even more game breaking than hidden service. Dissagree, not dumber.

I maintain my position if for no other reason than the 2001(?) WTTC final between liu and waldner. Two service masters playing an epic match.

However I would concede that at an amateur and intermediate level hidden serves we're more pervasive and therefore more disruptive than tricky rubber.

Also, i think about people like Ryu Seung Min who you think of as doing it a lot. He's not chinese. He doesn't even use chinese rubber. He uses tenergy. But again, it has more to do with his 3rd ball game than anything else.

kenneyy88 wrote: Europeans are apparently stronger than the chinese according to them, so they have the power and use the more smaller strokes.

There was this interview in another thread that mentioned both ZJK and WLQ can benchpress well over 200 pounds. I believe WLQ can, because he's a fitness fanatic and hits the weights regularly. I have to see ZJK do it to believe it.

Ma Lin is a bit on the pudgy side compared to his teammates. Ma Long looks quite fit and I think he's pretty strong too. Wang Hao looks quite stocky. Chen Qi and Hao Shuai look relatively more slight. Nevertheless, they all have very muscular legs.

Which top European players do you guys think can bench over 200 pounds?

beeray1 wrote: When i think of the straight arm loop, I think of the hungarians. I don't think of the chinese.

You must be old .

the hanging balls style... i perfected that style...

A novel shot (in the current generation) as far as I can tell, that I haven't seen in the technique of any players previous - against half long balls, the footwork propels the body FORWARD past the edge of the table.  The intent, besides power, is _reliability_ - using the arm, the player can compensate for misreads in depth of the ball.  You'll see this for loop-kills from the backhand corner where the player finishes half-depth on the backhand side, the assumption being, the opponent has no chance of returning the ball.  A perfect example, and I am very curious to see a clip before the 2000s showing something remotely resembling it: 1:00 minutes here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-8ECXb9n9w

For an intermediate player there is absolutely nothing wrong with developing a shot like this, because it provides *RELIABILITY*

Another, dare I call it "modern" example is the backhand opening against short and mid long balls.  It's all over the clip I included, and it harkens back to the chiquita-spin backhand of old.  But there is something new here: the elbow is out, the backhand face is COMPLETELY HORIZONTAL to the surface of the table, the motion is driven by the FOREARM, not the wrist, and not by *touch*.  Show me an older clip that mimics this technique.  The emphasis here is 1) POWER (because the forearm is used)  2) RELIABILITY (because the stroke is effective, with minor adjustment, against half-long side underspin, side topspin, and no-spin balls).  Racket speed, with modern equipment, can overcome a range of spins from minor underspin to minor topspin.  This changes the game.

Other players hit this shot with a lot of feeling but you can see in the current generation of chinese players, as just one example, this shot played with a maximum of power, and a minimum of risk, it is not about touch at least in terms of the major components - No, you absolutely don't have to be waldner to play this shot, and honestly in a few multiball sessions with someone who understands it you can use it to your own benefit.  It is effective too at lower levels with training, a modicum of talent, a minimum of feeling, a lot of motivation, and hopefully not a susceptibility to tennis elbow.  That is genuine evolution of the sport but I'm happy to hear otherwise here.







Edited by chronos - 06/17/2011 at 11:02pm

I like chine open.

lu1648 wrote: i am chinese~ and i hope i have a "chinese" stroke... lols the thing is as long as a stroke is natural it is a good stroke whether it's coined chinese or european style. everyone have a different height and size so everyone's strokes are different. one's body really dictates what's natural for him or her so there's no real difference in the stroke. there is a different at the timing and angle one hits the ball and chinese (or most asian) ppl have strokes that start and finish with one motion while europeans have more obvious recoil on their body. that difference translates to where and when they hit the ball so visually their strokes look difference. just my opinion, feel free to disagree and give thoughts~

+1

High quality post.

swampthing wrote: This is just my hypothesis: I think the loop style is a byproduct of equipment type that is in use

he was being sarcastic........

Edited by beeray1 - 06/18/2011 at 10:20pm

Who started what and why does not really concern me.  I was just brainstorming on what influences the use of a more straight arm loop and how it is currently often correlated with the Chinese players.  The major factors are a persons' racket and body.