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[Video] "Trying" to do Drills

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2011 at 2:40am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Originally posted by Vassily Vassily wrote:

My difficulty with continuous drills like that you kinda have to hold back (otherwise the other guy cant block consistently), and the holding back is hard if you are used to simply putting as much power as you safely can on the ball as you normally do in games.

Multiball is much easier, just whack away. I feel far better with multiball, more relaxed and smooth, etc.

Yup I totally agree, and I think this might be why tgh looks worse on drills.
Multiball is not the answer though in this case. I'm very fond of multiball when used in the right place, but it can mask the true problem of consistency, and is far better applied as a training tool once the strokes have been grooved into something useable and consistent in order to improve stroke recovery time. The objective is not to look good, its to improve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vassily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2011 at 4:16am
You can still try to play multiball consistently? You dont HAVE to go banzai 110% attacking with multiball. The feedback is not as obvious in the sense that you can miss alot and not "feel" it, but you can still focus on consistency by keeping track of the landed shots.

Sometimes it nice to just get lots of balls coming back no matter what so you can tune yourself back to normal without messing up the other guy's mojo as well and causing a negative cycle of crappiness.

Also, Ive noticed that I use a different stroke in pattern drilling than in games because of the need to slow the shot down. If I were to just let the kinetic chain unfurl as in a game, it would be too fast for the other guy to block it back consistently in some sort of pattern, so I sorta "mistime" the shot, which is surely not something good to practice? Either that or I put all the energy into spinning the ball, which doesnt really make it easier to block, nor is it especially good practice anyway since it feels a bit different.

The pattern drilling is ok for footwork though I think.

Not to start another chinese vs euro war, but I have heard that europeans do the pattern drilling more, while chinese multiball more. Is that true in your experience?

The other thing about multiball is that you can decouple the frequency of the balls from how hard you hit, so you can simulate the opponent standing further away from the table, or something like that. Also, problems caused by the relative skill of both players can also be minimized. Some people are just bad at blocking.





Edited by Vassily - 06/23/2011 at 4:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2011 at 4:28am
Multiball is an option to use as part of a coaching program, its not the answer as to why these guys are inconsistent at what they are trying to achieve, in other words, it won't result in them being able to competently complete 10 unbroken circuits of the drill they are using as an aid to their improvement, to be competent players they need to be able to do this, using multiball as an alternative will only mask the problem.
IMO, multiball is best used for beginners to develope strokes when they are unable to sustain a rally, and for advanced players squeezing time to improve their stroke recovery, in the middle of that, regular drills are far better time spent, after all Multiball does not exist in reality of TT, where a ball comes back in relation to how it went, in multiball, the feeder takes the delivery outside of reality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2011 at 7:23am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Multiball is an option to use as part of a coaching program, its not the answer as to why these guys are inconsistent at what they are trying to achieve, in other words, it won't result in them being able to competently complete 10 unbroken circuits of the drill they are using as an aid to their improvement, to be competent players they need to be able to do this, using multiball as an alternative will only mask the problem.
IMO, multiball is best used for beginners to develope strokes when they are unable to sustain a rally, and for advanced players squeezing time to improve their stroke recovery, in the middle of that, regular drills are far better time spent, after all Multiball does not exist in reality of TT, where a ball comes back in relation to how it went, in multiball, the feeder takes the delivery outside of reality.


This makes good sense. And I am sure there is only so much you can simulate (can't simulate loops) but but how does this assertion stand up to the chinese coaches feeding the children a series of balls in a pattern that matches gameplay?

e.g.
Wide underspin (that they loop attack) followed by fast topspin to mid (simulating a block). This would be a footwork and technique and tactic drill.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2011 at 7:31am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Multiball is an option to use as part of a coaching program, its not the answer as to why these guys are inconsistent at what they are trying to achieve, in other words, it won't result in them being able to competently complete 10 unbroken circuits of the drill they are using as an aid to their improvement, to be competent players they need to be able to do this, using multiball as an alternative will only mask the problem.
IMO, multiball is best used for beginners to develope strokes when they are unable to sustain a rally, and for advanced players squeezing time to improve their stroke recovery, in the middle of that, regular drills are far better time spent, after all Multiball does not exist in reality of TT, where a ball comes back in relation to how it went, in multiball, the feeder takes the delivery outside of reality.


This makes good sense. And I am sure there is only so much you can simulate (can't simulate loops) but but how does this assertion stand up to the chinese coaches feeding the children a series of balls in a pattern that matches gameplay?

e.g.
Wide underspin (that they loop attack) followed by fast topspin to mid (simulating a block). This would be a footwork and technique and tactic drill.

 Once again its just a tool for the Chinese coaches to use in order to control the pace and tempo of delivery, its not the end to a means, they still ultimately will achieve the quality to do the drill to a top standard in reality. As I say, I like multiball, but its not real, and many oplayers spend too much time useing it without analyzing what they are doing and what their objective is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2011 at 9:57pm
that's why i like the rallies better than multiball. it's more realistic with the ball paths.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dici Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/23/2011 at 10:23pm

hm what i can really suggest is that, spent like at least 30mins for warm up practice, which are just Fh to Fh, BH to BH and FH to BH.

and what you want to do here is control all your shots into the same spot all the time. Because all these drill requires the partner to have a precise control on the returning the ball, and also the hitter had to hit the ball to the good spot for partner. Just remember that, use the same way to block or perform FH loop all the time.

After that, you may want to increase the speed for this 30 mins warm up practice when you get to very familiar.

I used to able to do it very fast when like 15~18 years ago, when I still in the school TT team. But not anymore since I have stop for a period, for like 10 years



 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2011 at 1:00am
man dici....i'm basically in your position from 15-18years ago then. i hope you had good times when on the team. it's a mix of both for me...but mostly good times so far =)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2011 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Multiball is an option to use as part of a coaching program, its not the answer as to why these guys are inconsistent at what they are trying to achieve, in other words, it won't result in them being able to competently complete 10 unbroken circuits of the drill they are using as an aid to their improvement, to be competent players they need to be able to do this, using multiball as an alternative will only mask the problem.
IMO, multiball is best used for beginners to develope strokes when they are unable to sustain a rally, and for advanced players squeezing time to improve their stroke recovery, in the middle of that, regular drills are far better time spent, after all Multiball does not exist in reality of TT, where a ball comes back in relation to how it went, in multiball, the feeder takes the delivery outside of reality.


This makes good sense. And I am sure there is only so much you can simulate (can't simulate loops) but but how does this assertion stand up to the chinese coaches feeding the children a series of balls in a pattern that matches gameplay?

e.g.
Wide underspin (that they loop attack) followed by fast topspin to mid (simulating a block). This would be a footwork and technique and tactic drill.
 


 Once again its just a tool for the Chinese coaches to use in order to control the pace and tempo of delivery, its not the end to a means, they still ultimately will achieve the quality to do the drill to a top standard in reality. As I say, I like multiball, but its not real, and many oplayers spend too much time useing it without analyzing what they are doing and what their objective is.
 
Multi-ball here in Korea is huge and every club has a netted off area, usually 2 tables at the typical 6 table club. My coach seems to get it like you. I see her use more multiball drills with the beginners. I though I thought I did more multiball than I did, but thinking about it, she only gives me 3 MB drills (BH opening, step-in short recieve/stepback BH open, and corner to corner hyperfast blocking drill) The rest are drills at the table where she hits/bocks/whatever, given the drill or combination sequences. Those are done at match pace. Some of the combination drills are for keeping it on the table and rallying, yet some are made to open/move/hit or loop and seek to finish the point. Andy, your comment about using multiball for recovery is cool. One of my MB drills (step-in short push or flick/step back to open on BH) and a couple table drills emphisize and train the recovery. The training here seems to really accellerate your level and skills, all without any noticeable change in play week to week, however when you look at what you do 1-3 months later, the change is obvious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gatorling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/24/2011 at 1:26pm
Feeding good multi-ball takes a lot of skill.
To me the benefits of multi-ball is so that the coach can simulate many aspects of the game without great physical exertion on his point. He can simulate an opponent that can return EVERYTHING that you give to him and never grows tired or slow.
The coach can instantly increase the pace or slow it down, attack weak spots or simulate a mistake.

But I think that level of multi-ball is used once you hit the expert level (I would say 2300/2400 USATT).
That level of multi-ball is to push the limits of a player who is already at the top of his game and is no longer challenged by a partner who simply blocks..or whose returns are so powerful that the blocker has difficulty placing the return.

I agree with Andy, multi-ball is best used when grooving initial strokes (when you are very inconsistent and the coach needs to focus on your form and not on blocking the ball return) and when you are at an expert level (where the coach might not be able to keep up with you anymore and must use multi-ball to simulate an unbeatable opponent).

Everything else in the middle will be better served with a rallying partner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2011 at 3:14pm
tuan, just out of curiosity, i was watching some of ur practice matches.

ur forehand is much better than ur bh.  

i feel that ur game is very forehand oriented.  You have an aggresive looping forehand and a passive backhand.

That's a great style to play but the thing is, you need to stay close to the table.  people that loop towards ur backhand give you lots of trouble because ur far and u can't control the topspin from that far.  if u play closer, u will find it easier to control the spin and block better.

Also with this great style you play, you need to establish a good early attack.  you don't necessarily haev to kill on ur first shot but loop with a higher arc, get the ball on the table and then start pounding away.

players generally only get better by forcing themselves to think of better ways to set up their attack whether it's serving short then attacking or playing the ball short off ur opponents attack.

just my 2 cents
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