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Butterfly Timo Boll ZLC vs Jun Mizutani blade

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    Posted: 09/18/2011 at 6:28pm
hi im new to this site but im after a new blade, im getting bored of mine. I currently use the maze but i fancy either the TB ZLC OR JM  but i cant decide. I stay at the table and play pretty aggresively try and strong loop on the forehand and either punch or topsin on the backhand if it helps. just wonder if anyone knows anything about these ? mostly about the speed and hardness of them coz lets face it the shop rating arnt exactly realistic lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carbon TT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2011 at 6:52pm
The Mizutani plays much more slowly than the ratings would suggest, it might be closer to 9 on BTY's speed scale.  It also has a pretty woody feeling to it and is quite soft. It excels at counter-looping and blocking (I can see how Mizutani must like it, it fits his style so well).

The TB ZLC is stiffer and faster, but still has amazing control. I really can't describe to you how well it plays, it does almost everything well. You can play short drop shots with precision, and yet it still rips when you lay into the ball. It is a hard blade, but has a decent amount of flex, most likely due to it's thin construction (5.5mm).

Both are prohibitively expensive, but they both are very well made, have great playing characteristics, and are bound to become classics.  They are prime examples of "you get what you pay for". 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote konnichwakid1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/18/2011 at 7:41pm
I got bored with the Maze really fast too. You should be pretty happy with any of these blades. I think the JM is for someone that likes to block and loop on advantageous shots. If you are agressive right out of the gate then the ZLC sounds like a match. TB plays good for everyone, but I don't think it lets you get back too far during the points. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ry4n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2011 at 3:06am
I do love my maze but yea bored is an understatment at the moment. Thanks for the help i know its only two replys but really you both told me what i wanted to know and im going for the tb as i prefer a stiffer blade and the speed really does appeal to me right now espesially since your saying the jm is slower than what its rated. so thanks again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikepong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2011 at 4:40am
TB zlc is stiff and fast, others say despite the speed its still controllable, maybe im just a low level player because in my experience the control is poor, of course others may disagree but its just my opinion, i dont have any experience with JM though. on the otherhand i love MMaze i can loop better using Mmaze compared with ZLC, well if you play near the table then MMaze should fit your game, but its your choice 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2011 at 7:56am
Originally posted by mikepong mikepong wrote:

TB zlc is stiff and fast, others say despite the speed its still controllable, maybe im just a low level player because in my experience the control is poor, of course others may disagree but its just my opinion, i dont have any experience with JM though. on the otherhand i love MMaze i can loop better using Mmaze compared with ZLC, well if you play near the table then MMaze should fit your game, but its your choice 
 
Agreed. +1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2011 at 2:00pm
JM is a fast blade. It has very nice feel and control. IMO JM is better than TB ZLC. I have tried both I loved the control of TB but after considering all features i found JM is really ahead. Well it is my personal opinion. I play with 05fx (FH) and Tibhar Aurus soft (BH). Great set up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ry4n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2011 at 3:27am
see looking at these replies the tb sounds like it would suit my game more than the jm, just because its a stiffer blade. i prefer the feel of a stiffer blade but thats just my opininion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vic#74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2011 at 5:32am

I wonder if there a person who can call MJ flexy ??? The ball fly off it before the wood could show any signs of flexiness, don't fool yourself. It's almost impossible to recive good services with it in passive manner, while active return demands very good skill.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ry4n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2011 at 5:51am
Which blade is faster? I'm confused as I thought it was the tb but you make it seem like the mj is faster :s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vic#74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2011 at 6:26am
Both blades are so fast that I would recommend you to pick the slowest among them Smile I guess it is MJ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carbon TT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2011 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Ry4n Ry4n wrote:

Which blade is faster? I'm confused as I thought it was the tb but you make it seem like the mj is faster :s

The TB ZLC is easily the faster of the two.  It's also harder but possibly more flexible.


Edited by Carbon TT - 09/20/2011 at 6:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DragonSpirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2011 at 11:48pm
Hi Ry4n, I had a Timo Boll ZLC with T05 forhand and T64 backhand, I played with this set up for almost 1 year, it's a fast blade, stiff and not that flexy, it's powerful when you loopdrive, smash. I had problem in blocking, looping was ok but not as spiny.
I swithed to MJ blade lately with the T05 and T64 as before, I'm more happy than ever, Mj is a little slower but not much, softer more flexy and more control for sure, very poweful as well. My loops are now more dwell time, more spiny, blocking is a beauty, backhand punch, loop, chops, push are great. smash is powerful as well!
That's my personal opinion.


Edited by DragonSpirit - 09/21/2011 at 2:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khoo0604 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2011 at 5:30am
How about Timo Boll ZLF?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DragonSpirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2011 at 6:57am
I had a hit with my friend's Timo boll ZLF (TO5 FH and T64 BH) for 15 to 20 mins testing, it was no where near in any department as my Mj blade, less power, a lot slower, I have to swing my arm a lot harder. My friend tried my Mj, he said it was so powerful and faster and control.
I have a Innerforce ZLF with the same rubbers combo, still faster and more power than Timo Boll ZLF. That's my personal experience only.

Edited by DragonSpirit - 09/21/2011 at 7:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2011 at 9:59am
Originally posted by khoo0604 khoo0604 wrote:

How about Timo Boll ZLF?


I like TB ZLF better than TB ZLC and JM.  This blade is not slow, maybe due to I have T05 on both sides.  The control is a lot better than ZLC, and still better than JM.  The plus side is the weight.  It is very light about 84gm.  However, I have two blades both of them weight 81gr each.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2014 at 9:08pm
So, which Butterfly Z blade is best? How about Photino in comparison to TB ZLC and JM?

Edited by tommyzai - 03/06/2014 at 9:10pm
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Liu Shiwen.
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Originally posted by eecrive eecrive wrote:

Liu Shiwen.

Liu Shiwen (simplified Chinese刘诗雯traditional Chinese劉詩雯pinyinLiú Shī Wén; born April 12, 1991 in LiaoningChina) is a Chinese table tennis player.[1] She was the winner of 2009 and 2012 World Cup, 6 times winner of Pro Tour, winner of 2011 Pro Tour Grand Final and the winner of Asian cup in 2010. She held the ITTF number 1 rank for 9 consecutive months (from January to September, 2010). She is currently ranked 1st in ITTF Women's World ranking as of September 2013.[2]

Equipment[edit]

Liu Shiwen currently uses a Butterfly Liu Shiwen blade with a black Tibhar Grip-S for her forehand and a red Butterfly Tenergy 05 for her backhand.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttping85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2014 at 6:09pm
Personally I find the JM faster, stiffer but softer than the TB ZLC. 

Coming from a Maze I would pick the JM because the limba outers give a similar feel. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2014 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by ttping85 ttping85 wrote:

Personally I find the JM faster, stiffer but softer than the TB ZLC. 
Coming from a Maze I would pick the JM because the limba outers give a similar feel. 

Which Z blade would feel closest to a Clipper? Offensive Classic? YEO? I realize they are Z blades, not all wood, but still . . . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttping85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2014 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

Originally posted by ttping85 ttping85 wrote:

Personally I find the JM faster, stiffer but softer than the TB ZLC. 
Coming from a Maze I would pick the JM because the limba outers give a similar feel. 

Which Z blade would feel closest to a Clipper? Offensive Classic? YEO? I realize they are Z blades, not all wood, but still . . . 

Really difficult to say because they are really nothing alike...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2014 at 6:51pm
Let me ask this . . . what is so different about the new Z series B-fly blades compared to the old school Stiga, Yasaka, etc. blades?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2014 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by DragonSpirit DragonSpirit wrote:

Hi Ry4n, I had a Timo Boll ZLC with T05 forhand and T64 backhand, I played with this set up for almost 1 year, it's a fast blade, stiff and not that flexy, it's powerful when you loopdrive, smash. I had problem in blocking, looping was ok but not as spiny.
I swithed to MJ blade lately with the T05 and T64 as before, I'm more happy than ever, Mj is a little slower but not much, softer more flexy and more control for sure, very poweful as well. My loops are now more dwell time, more spiny, blocking is a beauty, backhand punch, loop, chops, push are great. smash is powerful as well!
That's my personal opinion.
I think I will buy a JM... what is a good weight for this blade? ...or an Innerforce ZLC.


Edited by JacekGM - 03/08/2014 at 8:28pm
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttping85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2014 at 7:42am
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

Let me ask this . . . what is so different about the new Z series B-fly blades compared to the old school Stiga, Yasaka, etc. blades?

It has nothing to with the fact that they are new or that they are Butterfly. It's just that they have artifcial fiber which makes the feel very different. I could say the same thing with any blade with any articifial fiber compared to all-wood blades. 

But I am not even sure if I understand you initial question. Are you asking which of the ZLF/ZLC blades is the most similar to generally old school all wood blades or are you asking which one is specifically similar each of the blades you have quoted? (Clipper, OC, YEO)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2014 at 11:59am
Originally posted by ttping85 ttping85 wrote:

Are you asking which of the ZLF/ZLC blades is the most similar to generally old school all wood blades or are you asking which one is specifically similar each of the blades you have quoted? (Clipper, OC, YEO)

Let me rephrase the question . . . what is so unique about the Z series blades compared to other artificial fiber blades? Are they worth the price? If so, which Z blade is the best and why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2014 at 3:20am
Originally posted by Ry4n Ry4n wrote:

hi im new to this site but im after a new blade, im getting bored of mine.


Originally posted by konnichwakid1 konnichwakid1 wrote:

I got bored with the Maze really fast too. 


Guys could you explain this a little please as I honestly don't understand. I can understand being bored with TT as a whole but to be bored with a blade is an odd concept for me. I have used the same blade for 25 years and have never considered it in terms of being boring or not boring (suitable to my game yes but not boring). An ex-teammate would presumably have a similar conceptual difficulty. He is 72 and has used the same blade for around 50 years. (He still drills twice a week and plays comp and would be US2250ish.)

Edited by DDreamer - 03/11/2014 at 3:21am
I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2014 at 4:25am
Originally posted by DDreamer DDreamer wrote:

Originally posted by Ry4n Ry4n wrote:

hi im new to this site but im after a new blade, im getting bored of mine.


Originally posted by konnichwakid1 konnichwakid1 wrote:

I got bored with the Maze really fast too. 


Guys could you explain this a little please as I honestly don't understand. I can understand being bored with TT as a whole but to be bored with a blade is an odd concept for me. I have used the same blade for 25 years and have never considered it in terms of being boring or not boring (suitable to my game yes but not boring). An ex-teammate would presumably have a similar conceptual difficulty. He is 72 and has used the same blade for around 50 years. (He still drills twice a week and plays comp and would be US2250ish.)

it's been 2 1/2 years since they wrote those comments so maybe they feel differently now Smile

what is the blade that the 72 year old has used for 50 years?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2014 at 6:29am
I thought I didn't recognise the names. Silly me should check posting dates.

The blade model is a Javor, named after an ex-Hungarian player. I think the manufacturing company is Dunlop but it could be Slazenger. It is shaped a little like a Barna but squarer. It is long since discontinued - probably late 60s early 70s.. Can't find anything on google.
I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2014 at 7:25am
I get bored with blades all the time. Usually, its the temptation to see if my improved technique allows me to blow the ball by people with one stroke with a faster blade. Was getting blocked down and that was going through my head... But then I woke up and realized that I just needed to improve my technique and accept that one stroke shouldn't win the point against better players....
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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