The 20th Asian Table Tennis Championship (video)

is it just me or does Zhang Jike seem to be having problems with his left knee it seems that way also in the semis against Wang Hoa.

So whining does require repetition?  It is not anywhere in the definition.  And even though loudness may be a part of the definition, it is not required either. 

NextLevel wrote: snerdly wrote: Try harder.  That is not the definition of whining, though it may be your definition. ----------------------------------  I know English is not everyone's first language but surely some of us can look beyond our limitations and embrace enhanced understanding of slang but for those unable to do so with their parochial intellects, I'll provide alternatives: -- whine  (hwn, wn) v. whined, whin·ing, whines v.intr. 1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint. 2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion. 3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining. v.tr. To utter with a whine. n. 1. The act of whining. 2. A whining sound. 3. A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone. ----------- So how is Ma Long being childish or complaining?

XX right now is under the most pressure to perform since ML and ZJK are the favourites to play in olympics.

Try harder.  That is not the definition of whining, though it may be your definition.

snerdly wrote: dingyibvs wrote: You should look up the definition of "whining" first. Would be so kind as to explain it to me?

I'll try - "whining" is repeatedly and loudly complaining and doing nothing about it.  What Ma Long did was point out one of his inspirations - he clearly did something about it and I haven't seen him complain.

FireHorse wrote: I do not want to get involved in the debate of who's better than who.  There are a lot of debates out there regarding who's the greatest, and everybody goes nuts about it so I stay away from this kind of debate.  But not shaking hand after a match, especially when losing, is just unsportsmanship.  I like this quote in the movie "Any Given Sunday":  On any given Sunday, you're gonna win or you're gonna lose.  The point is - can you win or lose like a man? FireHorse P.S. just to be clear, I'm not a fan of either Ma Long or Zhang Jike.  My idol is an older generation player.

+1

I do not want to get involved in the debate of who's better than who.  There are a lot of debates out there regarding who's the greatest, and everybody goes nuts about it so I stay away from this kind of debate.  But not shaking hand after a match, especially when losing, is just unsportsmanship. 

I like this quote in the movie "Any Given Sunday": 

On any given Sunday, you're gonna win or you're gonna lose.  The point is - can you win or lose like a man?

FireHorse

P.S. just to be clear, I'm not a fan of either Ma Long or Zhang Jike.  My idol is an older generation player.


Edited by FireHorse - 03/03/2012 at 6:09am

I don't hate Ma Long at all.  I do prefer Zhang Jike.  The reason is because I like that he is different than the rest of the Chinese as far as personalities are concerned.  He is a rebel, and I sort of like that.  I'm also not saying that Ma Long is a choker.  My point is that when ZJK is given a chance to perform in big time events, he does, and Ma Long doesn't.  I think everyone is just in a Ma Long craze because he has won a bunch of pro tour events. 
ZJK beating Timo in the semi's is huge.  There is way more pressure on the Chinese players to beat foreigners (especially Timo) than when they play other Chinese players (just ask Hao Shuai). 

Zhang Jike has been both sick and injured in the past few months.  He was even injured playing World Cup and still managed to win. 

I am also not excusing ZJK not shaking hands.  I think he should have done so, but it's not like in tennis where they have a real handshake at the end of the match.  It's basically an acknowledgment, and ZJK should have acknowledged Ma Long after the match. 

For what it's worth, I enjoy a good honest debate.  That's what I enjoy about these forums.  There is no need to be calling someone stupid. 

It appears that Ma Long has lacked the level of conviction to obtain a major championship title to this point, and that he has clearly been exceeded by ZJK is this concern.  Ma Long has had more opportunities and zero results.

snerdly wrote: There is constantly debate concerning who is the best, Ma Long or ZJK.  Always the head to head record is cited by Ma Long fans, which is fine if all you are concerned with is head to head match-ups.  But overall the better player can not be judged in such a limited scope. Ma Long has been in two World Cup singles competitions, didn't made it to the finals either time. ZJK has been in two World Cup singles competitions, made it to the finals both times and won it the second time. Ma Long Has been in three World Championship singles competitions, never made it to the finals. ZJK has been in one World Championship singles competition and won the Championship title.  BTW, in winning the title ZJK beat three of the four players who defeated Ma Long and prevented him from ever making it to the finals in these events. Making the final  Ma - 0 for 5:  ZJK - 3 for 3 Winning the title Ma - 0 for 5:  ZJK - 2 for 3 Another measure would be the China National Championships which ZJK has won the last two times I believe; has Ma Long ever won this event? Recently Ma Long has claimed to have been inspired by ZJK's accomplishments and has raised his performance a notch.  Could it be that Ma would not be playing at this level if not for the presence of ZJK? Another issue to consider is that Wang Hao has gained weight and his movement has suffered as a result.  A lighter Wang Hao might make it a three way debate as to who is the best player; maybe even eliminate the debate altogether!

Again, none of this applies to the most recent version of Ma Long - no one is arguing that ZJK isn't more accomplished - since August last year, we have seen Ma Long play at a level that is almost unseen in TT history.  Focusing on titles cannot obscure this fact.  If Ma Long's level falls back and he doesn't get a chance to play the Olympics singles because of the new rule restricting spots from one country, it doesn't change the fact that winning 5 pro tour titles in a row is damn near insane.   It just didn't coincide with a period when he could enter a major tournament.  The ITTF Tour Final and this Asian Championship are the biggest events during the period of Ma Long's ascendance that he could play in (China was restricted to two players for the World Cup) and he won them both comfortably.

It is in fact to ZJK's credit that he was the one that broke Ma Long's streak, which leaves the debate slightly open, but doesn't obscure the incredible nature of Ma Long's consistently high level.


Edited by NextLevel - 03/02/2012 at 9:07pm

Zhang did not give up. However, Ma Long took a very strategic timeout at 9-5, stopping Zhang's rhythm. Sometimes Zhang plays better(last tournament), and sometimes it's Ma Long(this tournament). Nothing wrong with not shaking hands. A heated rivalry is what this sport needs. 

rick_ys_ho wrote: Mike7381 wrote: I think Wang Hao is not as good as before anymore,   When was the last time that WH lost to non-Chinese player in any sort of formal tournament? In this criterion, I think he is still good, and his performance has been more consistent than MLong, MLin and ZJk.   Instead of saying WH is not as good as before, I would say MLong and ZJK (and maybe XX as well) have improved a lot in the last two years and WH does not have any advantage against them any more.

Edited by NextLevel - 03/02/2012 at 1:39pm

Mike7381 wrote: I think Wang Hao is not as good as before anymore, maybe he really need to lose some weight, I think he is slower and not as active as before. Also he always lose the game when he almost win. He caught up playing against Zhang Jike from 1 - 3 to 3 - 3 and then the 7th game, he was winning 10 - 7 then he lost 5 straight pts. This happened to him a lot, same with the game playing Xu Xin in Qatar open. I just don't know why and how he would lose all those game when he was almost certain to won. I am disappointed at him.

I think Wang Hao is not as good as before anymore, maybe he really need to lose some weight, I think he is slower and not as active as before. Also he always lose the game when he almost win. He caught up playing against Zhang Jike from 1 - 3 to 3 - 3 and then the 7th game, he was winning 10 - 7 then he lost 5 straight pts. This happened to him a lot, same with the game playing Xu Xin in Qatar open. I just don't know why and how he would lose all those game when he was almost certain to won. I am disappointed at him.