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2300 Long Pips Pushblocker |
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
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lol, so what...Pips is a sign of strength then? Since they use an inferior rubber and are forced to compensate for it? But seriously, you think that spin generating ability is the only strength in table tennis? |
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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I agree with Speedplay. The type of rubber most capable of spin variation is just normal inverted rubber (not anti). Pips generates less spin, so you can only vary spin in a shorter range. Think about it, would you prefer to serve with inverted, or pips, if you were allowed to hide the ball and deceive your opponent by varying spin as much as you can w/o him seeing it? Now, I wouldn't call pips a "weakness", because friction works both ways and they are also less affected by incoming spin. So it's all up to the player to take the advantages and avoid the disadvantages. In the end it's not what you use, but how you use it... |
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
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Serves aren't as much how much spin, but what type. Liu Guoliang had plenty nasty serves, perhaps the best server period, using short pips, and He Zhi Wen, also short pip penholder, is also known for his deadly and deceptive serves. And sure, you can spin the ball all you want, but I'm just gunna smack right through it with my pips. |
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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No, pips is a sign of a different approach to the game. Spin generating ability* isn't what TT is all about but it does play a huge part. To try to explain what TT is all about would take to long, but part of it is to fool/surprise your opponent so you get to control the game. Inverted rubber offers more options to do this. *Just want to point out, I'm talking about the ability you get from equipment, there are loads of other stuff that is important to the game, such as tactic, footwork and other stuff, but these aren't affected by your equipment. |
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The holy grail
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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Both Liu and He are SP hitters. They use SPs not because it has great serve spin, but because SPs are better in the hitting game. Both of them would prefer to serve with inverted, if they could magically change back to SPs later in the rally. In fact most pros with combo bats serve with inverted, not pips. Sometimes they even twiddle to do that. I'm just arguing inverted rubbers are better at the spin game, and pips can be better at other parts of the game for sure. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Well, one change drove pip players away which we should not forget. It was the 40mm ball. Note how all the pips players stopped winning immediately after the ball changed.
The ability to *generate* spin dominated with the advent of the 40mm ball. Right now, the best way to play against a pips player is to attack everything he gives you because on every level between equal strength players, pips players cannot put enough spin on the ball to deter you from attacking it. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Ok, I understand.. Would be interesting to see this guy at a US tournament.. Foreign rating central level is not necessary the same as US Rating Central level because a determination has to be made once starting to use the system. Does any of the players in Bulgaria have a USATT rating, so that we can compare his RC rating in Bulgaria with the USATT rating of the same player.
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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We have in our club two or three members who claim having USATT ratings at one time or another. One of them was 1829 10 years ago, now he is 1650. Considering his current age (65) this is quite a normal difference. When determining priors, I am considering the USATT ratings vids as found in youtube. The real problem is that we are a closed community and constantly beat each other, without fresh blood flowing in. If I was to bet between you two, I would bet $200 on you.Edited by Imago - 03/13/2012 at 4:41am |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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It would be a interesting match.. I would definetly try to move him. His opponent in the video was unable to move him but I think that what I would do would be to serve heavy side topspin wide to his backhand. With all that reversal, he would give me back heavy side-underspin (with sidespin in the opposite direction).. Now I would use the reversal of my pips to give him a very fast topspin push wide to his forehand (the returning sidespin would also help me to get a nice, wide curve wide to his forehand. I would bet money that he wouldn't be able to handle that too well. That's exactly what I do against Dickie Fleisher and it works very well (however, everything is reversed when playing Dickie as he uses his pips on the forehand, so I serve wide, heavy side topspin to his forehand and then give him the topspin push wide into his backhand) BUT I still lose to Dicke, just closer than before I started using that strategy. However, Dickie is athletic and that guy is not. I guarantee you that I would be able to jam this guy on his forehand side which he rarely uses.. He only seems to be effective from there when the opponent would place the ball right at his forehand sweetspot.. When playing wide and long to his forehand with a loaded topspin ball, I would bet that he'd be in trouble, just because he can't move too well.. The key is to get him to open up that forehand side by serving wide to his backhand. He won't be back to the backhand quick enough to handle that fast topspin push which I would take directly off the bounce.
Edited by Pushblocker - 03/13/2012 at 8:05am |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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I think moving H-A-S around is a fine and dandy idea. Looks more possible on serve than on receive. I like PB's ideas, but moving him around on serve receive is easier said than done. His ideas of giving him a wide ball to go to his weakness has merit as well for a good tactic.
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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I use lots of strategic serves against my opponents.. For example, against penholders, I serve heavy chop wide to the forehand and then push with topspin against their resulting push into their backhand side.. Even against 2000+ penhold players, I can repeat this over and over again and score that way. My goal when playing this guy would be to make him eat my spin with his inverted side and the only way to get him to use it is to move him first wide to the backhand. I would serve with a lot of spin so that I'd get a lot of spin back to use it against him on his weak side.. I once did this against a 2200 level pips blocker who used sticky inverted on one side and very worn long pips on the other side. I served heavy sidespin wide to his backhand and the resulting return, I would push wide to his forehand, forcing him to use the inverted rubber and he ended up having problem with the heavy spin on the ball.. Too bad that one year later, he switched to a more grippy long pips rubber and I wasn't able to use that strategy and he beat me
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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fourcourts
Super Member Joined: 03/21/2011 Location: Washington DC Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Not warming up with me at the Cary Cup this year? Edited by fourcourts - 03/13/2012 at 2:16pm |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Unfortunately, I won't be able to play this year as I have to work :(
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Watched some more videos of that guy and he is really good.. I have to revise my estimate and agree with the 2300 estimate. In some other matches, he showed some really good offense when opponents played into his forehand.. Very solid player.. In the video posted, his opponent played him mostly through the big guy's backhand but in other matches that I saw, they played to his forehand and the guy made some great shots. Not bad for a guy of that size..
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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daouddaoud
Member Joined: 01/26/2012 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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yeaper! Edited by daouddaoud - 03/15/2012 at 2:16am |
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ChichoFicho
Platinum Member Joined: 06/24/2009 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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Against Vladislav Tanchev (2500 RC/ 372 on ITTF):
http://ttfans.org/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB/%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB-%D0%B9%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8-32-%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80-%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B2-%E2%80%93-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8A%D0%BA-%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB-%D0%B7%D0%B0-3-%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%BC%D1%8F%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%B2-%D0%BA%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B1-chooo-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B2-23-05-2010/ |
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Darker Speed 70
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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Some of the replies think they can beat the pushblock and his evil twin with some strategies. Most of them are how to attack & win. IMO, they do not play a really good pushblock yet. The ball can come at you in a sloppy fastball +knuckle curve+changeup way, cannot see that in youtube. I think all attackers should think how to play defend first this time.
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
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Yeah, when you see Peter-Paul flick and loop balls into the bottom of the net, then stare at his racket, you know there is more going on there than meets anyone's eyes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Aj310uBKhI |
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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I disagree, why should an attacker completely change his game? What possible benefits could he gain from that? My opinion is that you should always try to play your own game, regardless of opponent, but of course you need to think about what you are doing, that goes against every style but it's especially important when playing against junk rubber users. I'm not a pushblocker, even though I have tried that style, but more of a chopper. If I can get the attacker to get involved in pushing rallies with me, I'm thrilled as I have forced him to play outside of his comfort zone, which gives me an even bigger advantage. |
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The holy grail
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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it was widely known that liu could serve spinnier serves with SP than the rest of the CNT
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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I do not mean change the attacker game completely; I just mean the attack-oriented tt players need to have more patient and understand the pushblocker rhythm before start attacking. Before played a pushblocker in our club, I was thinking beating a pushblocker should be a cakewalk. Most of the returns were sweet poison |
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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Then I agree with you, patience is often needed, along with focus on the spin. How ever, an attacker should still strive to attack and search for the oppurtunity to do so.
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The holy grail
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Philior Phimellus
Member Joined: 10/23/2015 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Here is a more recent video of Yotovski who seems to be in a relatively good shape, though he lost by a score of 9:11 in the decisive game. Yotovski's mental toughness may be underestimated at times...I once watched him come back from 4 or 5:10 down against a capable player from the Table Tennis Premier League. @Kolev, apologies, I have now fixed the link! Edited by Philior Phimellus - 04/05/2019 at 3:23pm |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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PP, Hold friggin' NECRO-JOB... but what the heck, the last comment is by SPEEDPLAY and damn I wish he could post more often.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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Kolev
Gold Member Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1529 |
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What video? |
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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I agree w BH man. I am using a combination of
1. Fast dead long serves followed by heavy top and top side lobbing 2. Combined with hitting every ball I can afford to LONG off the table and making him retrieve it. 3. Or do some short game.
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fortunateluck
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dicky fleisher
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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Hard to tell much by the funny video and by only one video but i would fear our own Pushblocker much more. Pushblocker may not have a great forehand, but he plays angles very well.
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Any current videos of this guy with a normal link to YouTube. He is interesting to watch. Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 03/09/2018 at 7:22am |
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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I think that is him
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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