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2300 Long Pips Pushblocker

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2012 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

that don't change the fact that pips are a weakness. NOTE! I'm not saying that using pips is a sign of weakness, neither that pips are used to cover up a weakness.


lol, so what...Pips is a sign of strength then? Since they use an inferior rubber and are forced to compensate for it?

But seriously, you think that spin generating ability is the only strength in table tennis?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2012 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Certainly not! Since pips have less ability to generate spin the inverted, then it is impossible to create more variation with pips then it is with inverted. Deception, well, that is more about the stroke then the rubber.


If you play a topspin or backspin stroke with inverted, you get exactly what you see, but depending on what spin you were hitting with pips, you may get a very different spin back than what you'd expect, and there's no way any inverted has what one could call deception that you get from a pip.


I agree with Speedplay. The type of rubber most capable of spin variation is just normal inverted rubber (not anti). Pips generates less spin, so you can only vary spin in a shorter range. Think about it, would you prefer to serve with inverted, or pips, if you were allowed to hide the ball and deceive your opponent by varying spin as much as you can w/o him seeing it?

Now, I wouldn't call pips a "weakness", because friction works both ways and they are also less affected by incoming spin. So it's all up to the player to take the advantages and avoid the disadvantages. In the end it's not what you use, but how you use it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2012 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Think about it, would you prefer to serve with inverted, or pips, if you were allowed to hide the ball and deceive your opponent by varying spin as much as you can w/o him seeing it?


Serves aren't as much how much spin, but what type. Liu Guoliang had plenty nasty serves, perhaps the best server period, using short pips, and He Zhi Wen, also short pip penholder, is also known for his deadly and deceptive serves.

And sure, you can spin the ball all you want, but I'm just gunna smack right through it with my pips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2012 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:


Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

that don't change the fact that pips are a weakness. NOTE! I'm not saying that using pips is a sign of weakness, neither that pips are used to cover up a weakness.
lol, so what...Pips is a sign of strength then? Since they use an inferior rubber and are forced to compensate for it? But seriously, you think that spin generating ability is the only strength in table tennis?


No, pips is a sign of a different approach to the game.

Spin generating ability* isn't what TT is all about but it does play a huge part. To try to explain what TT is all about would take to long, but part of it is to fool/surprise your opponent so you get to control the game. Inverted rubber offers more options to do this.

*Just want to point out, I'm talking about the ability you get from equipment, there are loads of other stuff that is important to the game, such as tactic, footwork and other stuff, but these aren't affected by your equipment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2012 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Think about it, would you prefer to serve with inverted, or pips, if you were allowed to hide the ball and deceive your opponent by varying spin as much as you can w/o him seeing it?


Serves aren't as much how much spin, but what type. Liu Guoliang had plenty nasty serves, perhaps the best server period, using short pips, and He Zhi Wen, also short pip penholder, is also known for his deadly and deceptive serves.

And sure, you can spin the ball all you want, but I'm just gunna smack right through it with my pips.


Both Liu and He are SP hitters. They use SPs not because it has great serve spin, but because SPs are better in the hitting game. Both of them would prefer to serve with inverted, if they could magically change back to SPs later in the rally. In fact most pros with combo bats serve with inverted, not pips. Sometimes they even twiddle to do that.

I'm just arguing inverted rubbers are better at the spin game, and pips can be better at other parts of the game for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2012 at 9:19pm
Well, one change drove pip players away which we should not forget.  It was the 40mm ball.  Note how all the pips players stopped winning immediately after the ball changed. 

The ability to *generate* spin dominated with the advent of the 40mm ball.  Right now, the best way to play against a pips player is to attack everything he gives you because on every level between equal strength players, pips players cannot put enough spin on the ball to deter you from attacking it.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2012 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

He is not there. He would most probably get 2200-2300 judging from how he plays against those with established RC rating. The OP is himself an RC Director, so he would know how to prior rate him.
Ok, I understand.. 
Would be interesting to see this guy at a US tournament.. Foreign rating central level is not necessary the same as US Rating Central level because a determination has to be made once starting to use the system.    Does any of the players in Bulgaria have a USATT rating, so that we can compare his RC rating in Bulgaria with the USATT rating of the same player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/13/2012 at 4:36am

We have in our club two or three members who claim having USATT ratings at one time or another. One of them was 1829 10 years ago, now he is 1650. Considering his current age (65) this is quite a normal difference. When determining priors, I am considering the USATT ratings vids as found in youtube. The real problem is that we are a closed community and constantly beat each other, without fresh blood flowing in.

If I was to bet between you two, I would bet $200 on you. Smile

Edited by Imago - 03/13/2012 at 4:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/13/2012 at 7:37am
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

We have in our club two or three members who claim having USATT ratings at one time or another. One of them was 1829 10 years ago, now he is 1650. Considering his current age (65) this is quite a normal difference. When determining priors, I am considering the USATT ratings vids as found in youtube. The real problem is that we are a closed community and constantly beat each other, without fresh blood flowing in.

If I was to bet between you two, I would bet $200 on you. Smile
It would be a interesting match.. I would definetly try to move him. His opponent in the video was unable to move him but I think that what I would do would be to serve heavy side topspin wide to his backhand. With all that reversal, he would give me back heavy side-underspin (with sidespin in the opposite direction).. Now I would use the reversal of my pips to give him a very fast topspin push wide to his forehand (the returning sidespin would also help me to get a nice, wide curve wide to his forehand. I would bet money that he wouldn't be able to handle that too well. That's exactly what I do against Dickie Fleisher and it works very well (however, everything is reversed when playing Dickie as he uses his pips on the forehand, so I serve wide, heavy side topspin to his forehand and then give him the topspin push wide into his backhand) BUT I still lose to Dicke, just closer than before I started using that strategy. However, Dickie is athletic and that guy is not. I guarantee you that I would be able to jam this guy on his forehand side which he rarely uses.. He only seems to be effective from there when the opponent would place the ball right at his forehand sweetspot.. When playing wide and long to his forehand with a loaded topspin ball, I would bet that he'd be in trouble, just because he can't move too well.. The key is to get him to open up that forehand side by serving wide to his backhand. He won't be back to the backhand quick enough to handle that fast topspin push which I would take directly off the bounce.
 


Edited by Pushblocker - 03/13/2012 at 8:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/13/2012 at 11:15am
I think moving H-A-S around is a fine and dandy idea. Looks more possible on serve than on receive. I like PB's ideas, but moving him around on serve receive is easier said than done. His ideas of giving him a wide ball to go to his weakness has merit as well for a good tactic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/13/2012 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

I think moving H-A-S around is a fine and dandy idea. Looks more possible on serve than on receive. I like PB's ideas, but moving him around on serve receive is easier said than done. His ideas of giving him a wide ball to go to his weakness has merit as well for a good tactic.
I use lots of strategic serves against my opponents.. For example, against penholders, I serve heavy chop wide to the forehand and then push with topspin against their resulting push into their backhand side.. Even against 2000+ penhold players, I can repeat this over and over again and score that way. My goal when playing this guy would be to make him eat my spin with his inverted side and the only way to get him to use it is to move him first wide to the backhand. I would serve with a lot of spin so that I'd get a lot of spin back to use it against him on his weak side.. I once did this against a 2200 level pips blocker who used sticky inverted on one side and very worn long pips on the other side.  I served heavy sidespin wide to his backhand and the resulting return, I would push wide to his forehand, forcing him to use the inverted rubber and he ended up having problem with the heavy spin on the ball.. Too bad that one year later, he switched to a more grippy long pips rubber and I wasn't able to use that strategy and he beat me LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fourcourts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/13/2012 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:



Not warming up with me at the Cary Cup this year?

Edited by fourcourts - 03/13/2012 at 2:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/13/2012 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by fourcourts fourcourts wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:



Not warming up with me at the Cary Cup this year?
 
Unfortunately, I won't be able to play this year as I have to work :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/13/2012 at 10:09pm
Watched some more videos of that guy and he is really good.. I have to revise my estimate and agree with the 2300 estimate. In some other matches, he showed some really good offense when opponents played into his forehand..  Very solid player.. In the video posted, his opponent played him mostly through the big guy's backhand but in other matches that I saw, they played to his forehand and the guy made some great shots. Not bad for a guy of that size..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daouddaoud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/15/2012 at 1:44am

yeaper!



Edited by daouddaoud - 03/15/2012 at 2:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/18/2012 at 1:29pm
Against Vladislav Tanchev (2500 RC/ 372 on ITTF):
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2012 at 12:02pm
Some of the replies think they can beat the pushblock and his evil twin with some strategies. Most of them are how to attack & win. IMO, they do not play a really good pushblock yet. The ball can come at you in a sloppy fastball +knuckle curve+changeup way, cannot see that in youtube. I think all attackers should think how to play defend first this time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2012 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Some of the replies think they can beat the pushblock and his evil twin with some strategies. Most of them are how to attack & win. IMO, they do not play a really good pushblock yet. The ball can come at you in a sloppy fastball +knuckle curve+changeup way, cannot see that in youtube. I think all attackers should think how to play defend first this time.


Yeah, when you see Peter-Paul flick and loop balls into the bottom of the net, then stare at his racket, you know there is more going on there than meets anyone's eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Aj310uBKhI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2012 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Some of the replies think they can beat the pushblock and his evil twin with some strategies. Most of them are how to attack & win. IMO, they do not play a really good pushblock yet. The ball can come at you in a sloppy fastball +knuckle curve+changeup way, cannot see that in youtube. I think all attackers should think how to play defend first this time.


I disagree, why should an attacker completely change his game? What possible benefits could he gain from that? My opinion is that you should always try to play your own game, regardless of opponent, but of course you need to think about what you are doing, that goes against every style but it's especially important when playing against junk rubber users.

I'm not a pushblocker, even though I have tried that style, but more of a chopper. If I can get the attacker to get involved in pushing rallies with me, I'm thrilled as I have forced him to play outside of his comfort zone, which gives me an even bigger advantage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2012 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Think about it, would you prefer to serve with inverted, or pips, if you were allowed to hide the ball and deceive your opponent by varying spin as much as you can w/o him seeing it?


Serves aren't as much how much spin, but what type. Liu Guoliang had plenty nasty serves, perhaps the best server period, using short pips, and He Zhi Wen, also short pip penholder, is also known for his deadly and deceptive serves.

And sure, you can spin the ball all you want, but I'm just gunna smack right through it with my pips.


Both Liu and He are SP hitters. They use SPs not because it has great serve spin, but because SPs are better in the hitting game. Both of them would prefer to serve with inverted, if they could magically change back to SPs later in the rally. In fact most pros with combo bats serve with inverted, not pips. Sometimes they even twiddle to do that.

I'm just arguing inverted rubbers are better at the spin game, and pips can be better at other parts of the game for sure.

it was widely known that liu could serve spinnier serves with SP   than the rest of the CNT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2012 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Some of the replies think they can beat the pushblock and his evil twin with some strategies. Most of them are how to attack & win. IMO, they do not play a really good pushblock yet. The ball can come at you in a sloppy fastball +knuckle curve+changeup way, cannot see that in youtube. I think all attackers should think how to play defend first this time.


I disagree, why should an attacker completely change his game? What possible benefits could he gain from that? My opinion is that you should always try to play your own game, regardless of opponent, but of course you need to think about what you are doing, that goes against every style but it's especially important when playing against junk rubber users.

I'm not a pushblocker, even though I have tried that style, but more of a chopper. If I can get the attacker to get involved in pushing rallies with me, I'm thrilled as I have forced him to play outside of his comfort zone, which gives me an even bigger advantage.

I do not mean change the attacker game completely; I just mean the attack-oriented tt players need to have more patient and understand the pushblocker rhythm before start attacking.
Before played a pushblocker in our club, I was thinking beating a pushblocker should be a cakewalk. Most of the returns were sweet poison Confused  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/20/2012 at 12:07pm
Then I agree with you, patience is often needed, along with focus on the spin. How ever, an attacker should still strive to attack and search for the oppurtunity to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Philior Phimellus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2018 at 4:27pm
Here is a more recent video of Yotovski who seems to be in a relatively good shape, though he lost by a score of 9:11 in the decisive game.



I think that his opponent plays in the "A" group, which is one level below the top division of the country.

Yotovski's mental toughness may be underestimated at times...I once watched him come back from 4 or 5:10 down against a caapble player from the Table Tennis Premier League.


@Kolev, apologies, I have now fixed the link!

Edited by Philior Phimellus - 03/09/2018 at 4:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/04/2018 at 5:44pm
PP,

Hold friggin' NECRO-JOB... but what the heck, the last comment is by SPEEDPLAY and damn I wish he could post more often.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/05/2018 at 6:17am
Originally posted by Philior Phimellus Philior Phimellus wrote:

Here is a more recent video of Yotovski who seems to be in a relatively good shape, though he lost by a score of 9:11 in the decisive game.




I think that his opponent plays in the "A" group, which is one level below the top division of the country.

Yotovski's mental toughness may be underestimated at times...I once watched him come back from 4 or 5:10 down against a caapble player from the Table Tennis Premier League.




What video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2018 at 5:11pm
I agree w BH man. I am using a combination of
1. Fast dead long serves followed by heavy top and top side lobbing
2. Combined with hitting every ball I can afford to LONG off the table and making him retrieve it. 
3. Or do some short game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fortunateluck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2018 at 7:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2018 at 5:01pm
Hard to tell much by the funny video and by only one video but i would fear our own Pushblocker much more. Pushblocker may not have a great forehand, but he plays angles very well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2018 at 7:21am

Any current videos of this guy with a normal link to YouTube.

He is interesting to watch.

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 03/09/2018 at 7:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2018 at 3:02pm
I think that is him LOLLOLLOLLOL

Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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