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Blade Sealing

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    Posted: 04/18/2012 at 2:50pm
 I recently sealed all my blades with Tibar Clean Coat. The problem is the cost being very high for such a small bottle. What is a cheaper solution that:
 
      Does not change playing qualities of the blade
  
      Is compatible with water based glue contact
 
      Seals and protects the wood without adding undo weight  
 
  Let me hear from you guys on what you use. Smile
 
 
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Krylon clear varnish. About 5-6 bucks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 3:32pm
You must seal the blade, unless you are wealthy or sponsored and throw them away after they splinter. Seal everything, including Violins, Acoustic, all 1-plies, and especially any blade with some special coating, like the Stiga Ebonholz, Rosewood, Maplewood, etc. I could list the reasons why, but quite frankly I am tired of arguing about this. I have bought, sold, and traded more blades than almost anyone in the world. 9 out of 10 times I get a used blade that was not properly sealed it is damaged . . . pieces of the top plies are missing from lifting off the rubbers . . . or worse . . . the top ply is mush from the glue seeping into it. Sealing will probably change the playing properties about .01 % . . . it will be a touch harder, faster, and with a little less feel. Yet, unless you are Ma Lin you will not notice the difference, I promise! Now, I am not saying put so many coats on your blade that it looks like a coffee table. I'm saying a couple light coats to bind the top plies and prevent the glue from penetrating the wood. I seal a little more on my personal blades because I like them harder and stiffer. One side effect is this . . . you have to glue with a little more care because wood binds better than poly. 

Overall, if you don't seal, you are either wealthy, a sponsored pro, or a knucklehead. :-)


Edited by tommyzai - 04/18/2012 at 3:44pm
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Blade Sealing by Tommy Zai

 *Prepare blade first. If you have to lightly sand, do it carefully with a fine gauge sponge sanding block-DRY. If you wet-sand a bare wood blade it might soften the wood and could deform it. Do not round off blade edges. Use rubbing alcohol to clean. Let dry (a few minutes). Now you're ready . . .

VARATHANE DIAMOND INTERIOR WOOD FINISH-SATIN (not gloss)-#2002-61.

1. Stir can well without shaking (causes air bubbles).

2. Dip the corner (twisted or folded up a little to provide a nice little flat area) of clean, dry white cotton cloth* and quickly rub the sealer into the blade and with a technique that covers evenly. I go in circles starting at the center of the face of the blade and work my way to the outer edges, then wipe along the side edge (perimeter) of the blade where the edge tape will go, then quickly return to the face of the blade to wipe off any spill over from the edge sealing with some light vertical strokes from handle out over top of blade. You might want to stroke a nice even level line across the top of the handle where the bottom edge of the rubber will go; however, I think it looks better and strengthens the blade to seal the wings/shoulder. I never let the sealant puddle up on the blade . . . that would be too much sealant. Rub it in. Do not layer it on. Some prefer to use a sponge or china bristle brush when applying, but that leaves a heavy coat and/or streaks of sealant. THAT IS NO GOOD IMO. The trick is to rub the sealant INTO the blade, then gently wipe off the excess with the cloth.

3. Wait one hour, then polish with a clean dry cloth.

4. Repeat.

5. Repeat a third time ONLY if the blade is like bare porous wood or if you want a stiffer lacquered effect (I have over sealed and made a mess. My blade looked like an over protected night table . . . hard as a rock and too thick). Luckily, I managed to fix this by sanding with a fine gauge wet sanding sponge and it took hours to repair my disaster. But only do this if you mess up, which you shouldn't. However, I should mention many of the Chinese players are over-sealing to stiffen the blade. Some call over-sealing "lacquering." There are also other product and techniques specifically designed for lacquering, but I recommend using Varathane and adjusting the number of layers.

6. Let harden overnight.

7. Affix your rubbers! I use glue sheets and NEVER get splinters when removing!!!!!!

*Use a cotton cloth or an expensive paper towel like Bounty that will not leave lint of fall apart and get stuck to your wet sealer. I use an old pair of 100% cotton boxer shorts. :-).

 I learned the technique in China.

I don't remember who turned me on to this Varathane, but it was on MYTT.

My hats off to him/her. I added the boxer shorts. 

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Delete.

Edited by j-bo - 04/18/2012 at 3:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 4:50pm
tommyzai,
I suppose you refer to this image that you posted some time ago:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/uploads/New/20070624_194331_Varathane.gif

On other Varathane Diamond line products it says "diamond hard". Not sure people want their Hinoki plies to become "diamond hard". Can you comment on that?
I assume that any urethane coating hardens wood about the same degree, and since this effect is desirable in wood working, they tend to use it for marketing. But is there any difference between different urethane products?

Charlie uses "Good Stuff" for his 1-ply and few-plies cypress blades:
http://www.mapleblock.com/detail/butcher-block-finishes-39/
Have you ever used it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 4:55pm
I've only used Varathane and Miniwax. I prefer Varathane as it dries a little slower and gives more time to rub in and off. It has to dry hard . . . harder the better. It's bind the top ply fibers together. I've never used Good Stuff. A little sealant rubbed in is well worth the fraction of a percentage of playing characteristic change IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote raphyelrosby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by j-bo j-bo wrote:

Krylon clear varnish. About 5-6 bucks.


I use the krylon clear spray enamel, let it dry for an hours lightly sand it and done. put the rubber on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 5:06pm
If you are gluing OX rubbers on your blade, you should not seal the wood so you get better adhesion. Even with sponge rubbers, if you tune and the rubber domes, you can hold a bigger dome on the surface when the wood is not sealed. There's a reason blades aren't sealed from the factory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

If you are gluing OX rubbers on your blade, you should not seal the wood so you get better adhesion. Even with sponge rubbers, if you tune and the rubber domes, you can hold a bigger dome on the surface when the wood is not sealed. There's a reason blades aren't sealed from the factory.
 
and when you want to change rubbers?  take the chance of splintering? Confused
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 5:24pm
OX rubbers don't splinter the blade when you remove them because the sheet is flexible. For sponge rubbers I only had issues when I used best test one coat. Now I use elmers and the bond is weaker and I haven't splintered any blades. You can tell if the blade will splinter by how difficult it is to remove the rubber. If you are applying a lot of force peeling the rubber, it will splinter. If I feel a lot of force, I would use a little bit of heptane to remove the rubber. Right now I'm using a hinoki top ply and I don't have to worry since the grain is closed. Limba and ayous are riskier and I've splintered them before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 5:59pm
Tibar Clean Coat is a water based sealer, no voc sealers for me. Is Varathane and Miniwax water based? Like I said I want to find a sealer that does not alter the playing character of the blade. I have tried other sealers in the past and have had a few disasters with the blades becoming unplayable....like trying to play with an iron blade! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 6:26pm
Spend $130 on a new blade, glue up without sealant, play a few times, pull those rubbers off as fast as you can (especially the OX rubbers), cry you eyes out when half of the top ply is stuck to the sponge, create an FS thread at 1/2 price, and then ship to me. I have plenty of wood filler. LOL.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 7:02pm
It all depends on the type of wood and the thickness of the top ply. You don't have to seal every blade and can prevent splintering if you know the properties of the glue that you are using.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

It all depends on the type of wood and the thickness of the top ply. You don't have to seal every blade and can prevent splintering if you know the properties of the glue that you are using.
 
wrong. sealing is always good.
 
not sealing you have the blade without protection. buying used blades without sealing is having risk to get the blade deteriorated.
 
i do not know why people insist on keeping the blade without sealing. at the time the wood gets wet the outer is suffering. it is not just a question of splintering. reglue sometimes the blade putting and taking off the rubber and see the outer.
 
 


Edited by ejmaster - 04/18/2012 at 9:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2012 at 9:37pm
Seal EVERY blade. If done like Tommyz wrote, it will not affect how it plays. Even if a blade does not splinter without sealing, it is soaking in water every time you use water based glue.  Smile
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+1  Thumbs Up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 10:32am
I think Tommy summed it up nicely. Thank you for the detailed instructions.

Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

If you are gluing OX rubbers on your blade, you should not seal the wood so you get better adhesion. Even with sponge rubbers, if you tune and the rubber domes, you can hold a bigger dome on the surface when the wood is not sealed. There's a reason blades aren't sealed from the factory.



This is a straw man argument. If you have adhesion issues with Rubber Cement after sealing, it can either be your gluing technique (not letting the rubber cement dry to tacky on blade and/or rubber) or you may need to just rough up the sealed surface with some 400grit sandpaper.

And with legal modern water based glues, even a domed rubber can be adhered. And because the water based glues can turn a top ply into mush over time, it's even more critical to seal your blade than it was pre-2008.

To clarify:
I can come up with at least THREE REASONS that most manufacturers don't seal.

1 increased cost in materials and complexity/cost of manufacturing process
  
2 if you damage your blade and have to replace it, this can help the manufacturer sell more blades (it's likely why so few blade manufacturers integrate edge protection into their design).

3 for years the player has been responsible for final finishing-Stiga is a great example- we complain that these blades often look shoddy, but Stiga understands that some of their players will want a light seal and others will want a heavy lacquer. A bare blade is the best way to allow players to customize and the Classic Series allows for that.

Knowing that some players prefer different kinds of finishes on the blade surface, Stiga has even marketed the effects of some custom finishes (look at the CR coating and crystalline coating). Of course, they have to add some sort of "proprietary technology" to their marketizing to make sure you buy it from them, rather than apply it yourself :)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 10:35am
Stuffs is Stiga
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 11:17am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Stuffs is Stiga
 
+1. Confused  and some Tihbar blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 11:47am
Originally posted by Hookshot Hookshot wrote:

Seal EVERY blade. If done like Tommyz wrote, it will not affect how it plays. Even if a blade does not splinter without sealing, it is soaking in water every time you use water based glue.  Smile
  
 
 I sealed a blade once with polyurethane and the results where that it made the blade 5% faster, lost some of the flex and generally made the blade into something else. It sure sealed the blade good but I could never use it again. I have tried the old hair spray method and it is ok in a pinch but not the best method. There was a guy at the club who bought a new Photino, covered the whole thing including the handle in polyurethane and then could not understand why it didn't play right. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 11:53am
Originally posted by frogger frogger wrote:

Originally posted by Hookshot Hookshot wrote:

Seal EVERY blade. If done like Tommyz wrote, it will not affect how it plays. Even if a blade does not splinter without sealing, it is soaking in water every time you use water based glue.  Smile
  
 
 I sealed a blade once with polyurethane and the results where that it made the blade 5% faster, lost some of the flex and generally made the blade into something else. It sure sealed the blade good but I could never use it again. I have tried the old hair spray method and it is ok in a pinch but not the best method. There was a guy at the club who bought a new Photino, covered the whole thing including the handle in polyurethane and then could not understand why it didn't play right. LOL
 
This is a particular problem that you do not know how to seal a blade properly.
 
It is not difficult at all. In fact it is very easy. Have to do really bad to have those problems.
 
Just use paper from the wc to expand a smooth layer (a thin and smooth layering. Use the wc paper to absorb exceeding). Then let dry (very important) 24 hours and the next day do the same with another smooth coating. That is all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 12:14pm
I don't use water based glue but it makes sense that the water in the glue will penetrate into the wood and take longer to evaporate than VOC solvents. Since the glue between the plies can be weakened with water it makes sense to seal when using WBG.

The only blade I've used that came sealed was the YEO. I found out why after I sanded off the sealer. The walnut surface dries up and looks really bad when it gets exposed to the air.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 12:38pm
do you guys really destroy your blades more from the gluing? I'd think there's more wear and tear from banging on the table, accidental dropping and other impacts. i'd seal only if using water based glue because the glue is so sticky. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loop40mm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 12:50pm

I use boiled linseed oil.  It is less protective than polyurethane but it seems good enough for my blade.  Polyrethane produces a thicker coating than boiled linseed oil.  You may have to reapply boiled linseed oil once in a while.

 

Here’s someone comment on using boiled linseed oil on tool handles.  Read ‘straw packages’ in the wood below. BLO stands for boiled linseed oil.

 

Want to keep your axe, maul, or sledge handles from cracking? Sand or scrape ALL that lacquer finish off, then rub it down with linseed oil, drill a 1/4" hole in the but end about 2" deep and fill the hole with blo. Cork it with a 1/4" dowell and let it stand for a while. After a week or so check the hole and refill with more blo.

Those little "straw packages" in the wood will absorb the blo and you will have a tool handle that is now just a bit flexible and resiliant, instead of dry and brittle. Odds of it breaking in use will be greatly reduced. Works for "working" walking sticks, too. You know, not the decorative ones you take to the mall or park, but the ones that hit the trail and are leaned on, pried with, and used for pack supports, tarp posts, etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 1:05pm
why doesn't it work for decorative walking sticks?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 1:06pm
Hair spray is NOT a sealer. It creates a weak bond from sponge to wood so it does prevent splintering but it does NOT seal.

Lets see, what is the solvent for hair spray,,,,oh yea,,,,water. Dont believe it? Take two pieces of toilet paper. Spray one with Poly, one with hair spray. Go ahead, make the hairspray coat as thick as you want. A thin poly coat will do. Let them dry or use a hair dryer to speed thing up.

Now you have two pieces of stiff toilet paper. Dip them in water and watch what happens. The poly one? Nothing happens. The hair spray one? Instant limp paper. The hairspray disolved in seconds. The same thing happens to the hairspray on your blade. The water based glue disolves the hairspray almost instantly and is then soaking into the wood. Hairspray is NOT a sealer. Smile

If you cause a 5% increase in speed with poly sealing, you did nopt use Tommyzs method. It will not do that. We have sealed with more than one coat and no one could tell in a blind test. Two identical bats, same rubbers, one sealed, one not. Using rubber cement can cause a bigger change in a rubber than sealing a blade. Rolling a rubber on hard when glueing it can make a bigger change than sealing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 1:11pm
Hookshot, 
Let it go my brother. If we finally convince these guys that the pros of sealing HUGHLY outweigh any cons (if there are any) where will we get great deals on damaged blades? Please stop! This is how I make my extra money to survive. Oh, and this is where Stiga, Butterfly, Nittaku, etc. make their biggest profit  . . . selling new blades to replace damaged/splintered blades that were not sealed. Don't seal blades, and if you do . . . use your Mom's Aquanet! LOL


Edited by tommyzai - 04/19/2012 at 1:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 1:17pm

OK.  What is Tommyzs method to seal???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/19/2012 at 1:29pm
blade manufacturers don't make a lot of money from people replacing glue-damaged blades every 3 years. They make a lot of money from people replacing undamaged blades every 3 months.
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