OX or not OX, what is the different

Hi, I am planning to change my BH to 563 medium pips. Then, I find out that there are ox and 1.5mm sponge version. I ask my fds. They told me that ox version can only chop and is slower than the sponge version. Sponge version can hit/block as well, However, I see some people actually use ox long pips-out rubber to loop at training session. So, what is the real different between using ox pips-out and pip-out rubber with sponge

LPs with sponge requires more experience and brings more spin variation.   

pnachtwey wrote: The sponge ABSORBS energy and doesn't make the paddle faster. Blocking fast balls with 0X is hard as there is nothing to absorb the energy.   However, if you get the angle right the balls will go over the net fast and low.   It isn't so bad with 755 like ChopChop uses because the LPs do absorb some energy.

It depends on what kind of sponge, doesn't it? Most modern sponges act like a spring, so they grab the ball (and its energy) and throw it back out. With more sponge like those, you get more speed.

To ox or not to ox, that is the question (c)

OX version is indeed considerable slower. Looping with it is not really looping, it's just a rather flat hit with a specific angle of attack. Although it can look like a loop...

nathanso wrote: Other LPs have fast bouncy sponges that speed up the LP topsheet over how it would be as OX, Xiom Guillotine S and RITC 755 Tack Speed being examples.

I agree.... I have the same LP in OX and 0.6 and the sponge is faster. The sponge is also capable of countering spin where the OX is really bad in this area.

Of note it is possible to "loop" with LP. It differs from inverted as with inverted you generate the spin in your stroke where as with LP you use the spin of your opponent and even add a little more yourself. What this means is you can "loop" and ball with backspin, but not with topspin using a LP. When facing topspin you are more or less reduced to playing defensive shots which is why all good players attack pips with topsin and reduce their game to defense only.

ZingyDNA wrote: pnachtwey wrote: [QUOTE=ZingyDNA] No, what sponge has a higher speed after impact than before?  That would mean the sponge magically can generate energy and the coefficient of restitution is greater than 1. But the thing is, most modern sponges absorbs significantly less energy than rubber top sheets, and the bare wood on the racket face.

pnachtwey wrote: ZingyDNA wrote: pnachtwey wrote: [QUOTE=ZingyDNA] No, what sponge has a higher speed after impact than before?  That would mean the sponge magically can generate energy and the coefficient of restitution is greater than 1. But the thing is, most modern sponges absorbs significantly less energy than rubber top sheets, and the bare wood on the racket face. So adding more sponge, even though it absorbs some energy,  some how results in more kinetic energy?  Where does this extra energy come from then? I don't buy it.

Edited by racquetsforsale - 04/19/2012 at 3:10am

chopchopslam wrote: pnachtwey wrote: ZingyDNA wrote: pnachtwey wrote: ZingyDNA wrote: No, what sponge has a higher speed after impact than before?  That would mean the sponge magically can generate energy and the coefficient of restitution is greater than 1. But the thing is, most modern sponges absorbs significantly less energy than rubber top sheets, and the bare wood on the racket face. So adding more sponge, even though it absorbs some energy,  some how results in more kinetic energy?  Where does this extra energy come from then? I don't buy it. Yes it is possible for some sponges to add speed. It's not a matter of adding energy, it happens because less energy is lost than in a bounce against a bare blade. I see, so keep adding sponge so less and less energy is lost until no energy is lost and we have a perpetual motion machine! Excellent!!! [quote]  A good springy sponge will lose a little energy as it dissipates laterally into the sponge, but most of the energy will be returned to the ball as it springs back.

Modern Defender

The modern defender uses backspin as an attacking weapon, to set up his attacks. The typical modern defender uses a shakehand grip, and chops with heavy backspin on the backhand side. On the forehand side, this player will chop the ball when his opponent makes a strong attack, but will counterattack any weak topspins or loose pushes by his opponent.

Distance from the Table:

The distance from the table for this playing style will vary. When on the defensive or counterattacking, the player will be anywhere from 8 feet or more behind the table. When attacking from his own serve, the player will stay within 3-5 feet of the table unless forced away by a good counterattack from his opponent.

Typical Equipment:

The world class modern defender use inverted rubber on the forehand side, in around a 1.9mm thickness sponge, with speed glue. On the backhand, long pimples with thin sponge are typically used, although short pimples and antispin are seen occasionally. The blade is an offensive blade, although not as fast as those used by the loopers or hitters, since some extra control is needed when chopping. Lower level players use thinner sponge on the forehand (1.0 - 1.5mm) for better control.

Hitting a ball for high speed with a bare blade can have a lot more impact for the ball then dropping it or softly bounce on a floor. Much more deformation going with it.
I assume this drops the efficiency for the rebound from side of the ball as weaker (also from shape). Sponge decreases this deformation offcourse. Even if it looses some from the side of the racquet (and player) when it gains more from the balls side the result can still be a gain. Also for the player.
Ox is not a totally bare blade offcourse (balls can even be cracked then) but still.  This type of drop in speed won,t help for control as usual. It,s too much unexpected behavour for that difficult for controlling the ball. With ox on blades that tend to be more harsh on a ball (off+ carbon blades for instance) this will increase. Some sponge (if it,s not an offensive sponge) will therefor be easier when the blade is more an offensive blade. The speed doesn,t increase from a more defensive sponge.
Typical for this (I think) is that on softer allround or defensive blades or also thick soft balsa blades thinner sponge can be faster then max or at least the difference is less then with some hard off+ blades.
The loss from the additional sponge starts to prevail then over the gain because the blade allready has a softness from itself to keep the deformation of the ball lower.

Other reason why a sponge can be easier on offensive blades is that it can help graze more spin from a topspin. That can avoid balls to float long sometimes from a combination of speed and backspin.

But it,s probably better to learn with pips on easier blade and no -sponge.





Edited by mercuur - 04/19/2012 at 3:03pm

ZingyDNA wrote: Uh, no, we're saying the ball can be hit faster with the exact same stroke, if you use a thicker sponge.

Hello friends of TT.

i played with a long pip player before and he told me that OX is easier to control but with sponge is like adding a spring to it. more spin, more impact/pushing/tension but hard to control. Usually they choose 0.6mm sponge.

I don't see anybody play with more than > 1.0mm yet. And most of them play far away from the table.

Long pips usually give people trouble. However, experienced players and players ranking more 2500 can kill your long pips return easily.




Edited by acid - 04/03/2015 at 3:55pm

I tried both OX and 1.0 Yasaka Phantom in the backhand of my cpen bat.