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Handles with old tags?

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cmetsbeltran15 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/20/2012 at 3:26pm
 this is something i've really wanted to ask about now. what is with everybody getting so hyped up over these so called old handles, old tags whatever it is.  i've seen this trend a lot recently and cant understand why someone would pay such a significantly higher price for these old tags that nobody sees or cares about
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 3:37pm
the old tags (previous generations) are much better than the new tags (newer generations).  The characteristics and the quality of the old is much superior to the new.  New ones tend to cut corners to maximize profits.  That's why sometimes the new ones have splinters or lousy quality compared to their predecessors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

the old tags (previous generations) are much better than the new tags (newer generations).  The characteristics and the quality of the old is much superior to the new.  New ones tend to cut corners to maximize profits.  That's why sometimes the new ones have splinters or lousy quality compared to their predecessors.
 
I don't think that is true, I have not experienced ANY of the above with my 'new' tagged blades. It's just a state of mind. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 3:49pm
i should've began with "In my opinion, ..." LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

i should've began with "In my opinion, ..." LOL
 
So is it in ur opinion or have you experienced the splintering and inferior quality in the silver tag Bty blades?  if so, which model(s)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmetsbeltran15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

the old tags (previous generations) are much better than the new tags (newer generations).  The characteristics and the quality of the old is much superior to the new.  New ones tend to cut corners to maximize profits.  That's why sometimes the new ones have splinters or lousy quality compared to their predecessors.
 
I don't think that is true, I have not experienced ANY of the above with my 'new' tagged blades. It's just a state of mind. 


thanks liulin. but i have to agree with jt999sf. all the close up pics of the blades of pros and upcoming stars have shown the new generation tags, im sure they couldve gotten their hands on old blades if they really wanted to, and they wouldve figured it out by this point as well. not to mention wood dulls over time


Edited by cmetsbeltran15 - 04/20/2012 at 4:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 8:42pm
I think the Old/New problem is mostly with STIGA blades. They used to be handmade in Hungary I believe but now they are made in Sweden at the factory YASAKA used to have blades manufactured at
All generalizations are incorrect, including this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

 
I don't think that is true, I have not experienced ANY of the above with my 'new' tagged blades. It's just a state of mind. 
+1. I think the hyped up thing is mainly due to the fact that some people are being nostalgic about the good old days. They long to return to that "state of mind" where things were more simple & no-nonsense. Just like I've been longing to go back to the time when I first bought/got my pristine 1985 Honda Accord EX 4 Door, so simple, so easy to run/maintain & yet so much fun to drive....Big smile


Edited by tiehwen - 04/21/2012 at 3:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sa01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2012 at 11:49pm
with butterfly at least it makes no sense.
they had the old logo until a couple of years ago.
it's not possible that they suddenly changed all their production procedure, quality of materials, etc.
if you were talking about 20 or 30 year old blades maybe there could be a difference in the way they produce it.
but it's almost impossible to prove.
also blades tend to change their feeling with time and use so that probably has a lot to do, maybe more than any difference in the way they produce the blades.
even more, every blade is different, even if produced today. due to different wood, etc.

I have an old banda dacota (like 15 years old or more) and it feels different to any other blade I played.
I think a major part is the age of the blade, as well as having been played a long time and glued so many times (remember until a couple of years ago people used to speed glue).


Edited by sa01 - 04/21/2012 at 3:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2012 at 3:14am
Originally posted by IanMcg IanMcg wrote:

I think the Old/New problem is mostly with STIGA blades. They used to be handmade in Hungary I believe but now they are made in Sweden at the factory YASAKA used to have blades manufactured at


The OP is referring specifically to Butterfly blades. In partuiculat; he is referring to the differences in the black and silver tagged Japanese models.



Your comment about Stiga blades being produced in Hungary is incorrect.

Stiga originally produced blades at Woodhouse AB and that factory is still producing blades today; albeit for other manufacturers like Avalox and Yasaka.

Current Stiga production is done at their newer plant; which isn't too far away from Woodhouse AB.

The Hungarian handmade blades you are referring are OSP blades and they are designs that are based on blade templates whose patent has expired. They also produce the blades using the old construction methods and glues; which makes blade production longer; but the blades are worth it.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2012 at 4:07am
Supposedly the older wood supply is better than the newer supply. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2012 at 4:51am
Originally posted by Peter C Peter C wrote:

 
Your comment about Stiga blades being produced in Hungary is incorrect.

Stiga originally produced blades at Woodhouse AB and that factory is still producing blades today; albeit for other manufacturers like Avalox and Yasaka.

Current Stiga production is done at their newer plant; which isn't too far away from Woodhouse AB.


Correct.  Also, Donic's "Swedish Construction" blades are also manufactured at Woodhouse AB, as well as select Nittaku blades (those that feature the, "Made in Sweden", on the lens).  Woodhouse AB is located in Tranås, Sweden.  Check your old Stiga lenses -- Alsers, Johanssons, Bengtssons, "Tickan"s, Lindh's, etc.  Those will say "Made in Tranås", if they are early 90's and earlier.  I don't know when Stiga stopped putting "Made in Tranås" in their lenses  (Anyone?)

Stiga blades, are produced 220km away in Eskilstuna, Sweden.  Eskiltuna is home to Bengt Bandstigen, who founded Banda Blades (remember those?).  Banda was the blade that Waldner chose to play with, and popularized in the 80's-early 90's.  Banda purchased Stiga Sports AB in 1984 and moved operations, and many good blade technicians, from Tranås to Eskilstuna.  Today Stiga Sports AB is run by Bengt Bandstigen's son, Mats Bandstigen.  

Stiga --> Yasaka = Woodhouse AB (Tranås, Sweden)
Banda --> Stiga = Stiga AB -> (Eskilstuna, Sweden)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sa01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2012 at 11:36am
Originally posted by king_pong king_pong wrote:

Originally posted by Peter C Peter C wrote:

 
Your comment about Stiga blades being produced in Hungary is incorrect.

Stiga originally produced blades at Woodhouse AB and that factory is still producing blades today; albeit for other manufacturers like Avalox and Yasaka.

Current Stiga production is done at their newer plant; which isn't too far away from Woodhouse AB.


Correct.  Also, Donic's "Swedish Construction" blades are also manufactured at Woodhouse AB, as well as select Nittaku blades (those that feature the, "Made in Sweden", on the lens).  Woodhouse AB is located in Tranås, Sweden.  Check your old Stiga lenses -- Alsers, Johanssons, Bengtssons, "Tickan"s, Lindh's, etc.  Those will say "Made in Tranås", if they are early 90's and earlier.  I don't know when Stiga stopped putting "Made in Tranås" in their lenses  (Anyone?)

Stiga blades, are produced 220km away in Eskilstuna, Sweden.  Eskiltuna is home to Bengt Bandstigen, who founded Banda Blades (remember those?).  Banda was the blade that Waldner chose to play with, and popularized in the 80's-early 90's.  Banda purchased Stiga Sports AB in 1984 and moved operations, and many good blade technicians, from Tranås to Eskilstuna.  Today Stiga Sports AB is run by Bengt Bandstigen's son, Mats Bandstigen.  

Stiga --> Yasaka = Woodhouse AB (Tranås, Sweden)
Banda --> Stiga = Stiga AB -> (Eskilstuna, Sweden)


so banda bought stiga???
I thought stiga was 10 times bigger than banda, in any case stiga would buy banda.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2012 at 2:38pm
@_sa01

Checkout these links:


History & connection - Banda/Stiga (the English is a little bit ba as this is translated from a Swedish source)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danggi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2012 at 10:39am
as i know, change from old tag to new tag , because BTY , they change their CEO from old generation to new generation.... for the wood characteristics and quality are the same .... just a  little bit difference in weight and feeling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rossicarbon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2012 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

the old tags (previous generations) are much better than the new tags (newer generations).  The characteristics and the quality of the old is much superior to the new.  New ones tend to cut corners to maximize profits.  That's why sometimes the new ones have splinters or lousy quality compared to their predecessors.
 
I don't think that is true, I have not experienced ANY of the above with my 'new' tagged blades. It's just a state of mind. 

My sardius with new tag got splintered and this sardius was bought from Butterfly australia.  If you have a chance to try the tbs, maze, korbel,primorac carbon, sardius..with the old tag then you would understand why people willing to pay more for the old model.  From my experience the new models are hard feeling, "heavier" and some of the handles are not comfortable either too thin or too flat compare the old handle more roundish and fatter. For me the main issue would be the feeling of the blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2012 at 4:52pm
Moved to Equipment Forum.

Please do not post Equipment specific threads in the General Forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote raphyelrosby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2012 at 5:04pm
I want to chime in here as I often get irritated when people ask me about the "grains" of a blade. I think if anyone did a blind test, the whole wood grain/ old badge theories would be debunked. I think its frivolous for someone who practices and trains, but maybe for someone who wants to look at their blades and admire them, then maybe it matters.  I have given up single ply hinoki and gone to balsa carbon as it works better for what I want. I shave my blades for comfort, and will continue to do so, and every penholder I know from 1900-24## does so as well. Anyway that's my feelings for on this. Let the collectors collect, but those who really push their game and by training and work will realize that all of that nit picky stiff has no bearing in the match.
Xiom Hayabusa ZX, Sigma II pro on FH, Vega Elite BH.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2012 at 12:26pm
well...here is my take on this "collector &/or players who train hard & what have you thing kinda threads/things"....
My older bro-in-law has 2 or may be more OLD Rolex watches, one he wears everyday & treats it  like a working horse & the others as "collectibles", good for him to look at/admire whenever he chooses to/feels like. Do I see or does anyone see anything wrong with that?
I don't think so...
There's no need to blah blah blah keep on ranting about playing hard, pushing to the limit & let the collectors collect kinda thing on & on......Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote raphyelrosby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2012 at 2:09pm
I am merely posting my opinion, as have many others on this thread. I am a scientist, a classically trained biologist, and I think in terms of hypotheses and testing them. To make a statement to newer players that the older blades are better or play better is a real disservice to them. 
Xiom Hayabusa ZX, Sigma II pro on FH, Vega Elite BH.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2012 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by raphyelrosby raphyelrosby wrote:

I am merely posting my opinion, as have many others on this thread. I am a scientist, a classically trained biologist, and I think in terms of hypotheses and testing them. To make a statement to newer players that the older blades are better or play better is a real disservice to them. 
True, no problem w/ that statement at all, I don't need to be a Scientist or Engineer to figure that out. However, to some people, knowing the blade he's using/holding is a "Classic" or "Old model/gem/rare pc. of/1 of a kind" make help them feel good & who knows, might make them play better or excel in a particular day/game. It's in their head or a psychological thing, right? It could also go the other way, as they might think, oh..this is a classic oldie & I gotta careful or else....their games then go shxty....LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2012 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by rossicarbon rossicarbon wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

the old tags (previous generations) are much better than the new tags (newer generations).  The characteristics and the quality of the old is much superior to the new.  New ones tend to cut corners to maximize profits.  That's why sometimes the new ones have splinters or lousy quality compared to their predecessors.
 
I don't think that is true, I have not experienced ANY of the above with my 'new' tagged blades. It's just a state of mind. 

My sardius with new tag got splintered and this sardius was bought from Butterfly australia.  If you have a chance to try the tbs, maze, korbel,primorac carbon, sardius..with the old tag then you would understand why people willing to pay more for the old model.  From my experience the new models are hard feeling, "heavier" and some of the handles are not comfortable either too thin or too flat compare the old handle more roundish and fatter. For me the main issue would be the feeling of the blade.

There can be other factors affecting your new Sardius, glue could be one of them.  I honestly cannot understand why some people would pay a higher price for the old metal tag blades, just pure hype to me.
I think I've played with enough of both to form an opinion.  The feeling of the blade is soooo subjective, you want to separate that by the old & new tags??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sa01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2012 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

Originally posted by raphyelrosby raphyelrosby wrote:

I am merely posting my opinion, as have many others on this thread. I am a scientist, a classically trained biologist, and I think in terms of hypotheses and testing them. To make a statement to newer players that the older blades are better or play better is a real disservice to them. 
True, no problem w/ that statement at all, I don't need to be a Scientist or Engineer to figure that out. However, to some people, knowing the blade he's using/holding is a "Classic" or "Old model/gem/rare pc. of/1 of a kind" make help them feel good & who knows, might make them play better or excel in a particular day/game. It's in their head or a psychological thing, right? It could also go the other way, as they might think, oh..this is a classic oldie & I gotta careful or else....their games then go shxty....LOL


so you understand his theory but you don't put it in practice.
"- OSP Virtuoso, Virtuoso Plus & 1980's Stiga AR UTC - Anatomic. "

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Edited by sa01 - 05/06/2012 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2012 at 7:53am
if an older blade has plenty of use, oftentimes the sweet spot has been "broken in" (softened up) by repeated hitting and the blade has a bit more dwell and feel than a current model. also wood can dry over time, sometimes resulting in a few grams of weight savings.

i've personally felt this phenomena with both 15 year old Avalox P500's and 15 year old Clippers compared to 1-2 year old blades of the same make. The older blades play a little bit more controlled, and ever so slightly slower.
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