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Robot decision

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cameronreddy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/27/2012 at 11:07am
I want a robot and this is my take on the options.

If I want to receive slow serves with lots of spin I need a two wheel unit. Cost $1,000 and up. This is attractive to me as I need that type of work the most. These have auto feed from a net. Fairly complex to operate. Two wheels are necessary to create spin independent of the speed with which the shot comes at you. This seems a very important function.

If I want to receive a mix of spins, such as one shot with a slow, high-underspin serve, followed by a driving top spin shot deep to my side of the table, I need a two head, four wheel unit. Cost $1,500 and up. This would obviously be the best training. These have auto feed from a net. Unfortunately, these units seem to get really complex to operate. 

If I want a decent mix of shots around the table (short to BH then long to FH type of stuff) with one type of spin, with auto feed from a net collection system, the Newgy is the unit. $600. Possibly the Killerspin unit at $850. Modest complexity.

If I want a very basic, sit-on-the-table unit to shoot shots of one type to me, with nothing but oscillation, the iPong is the one to get. $150. Very simple to operate.

Far and away the most popular unit is the Newgy in its latest incarnation (2050 @ $600).

The only deviation from this matrix, if you will, of options is the NewStar 2080 @$1,800, which seems to be able to do the two head stuff with one head, if I recall correctly. However, that unit is horrendously complex to operate.

Can you guys add to the "matrix" of options? Are there functions that I'm not including that would help in the decision process? Stuff I wouldn't likely know as I've never owned any of them? The ability to just roll the unit away from the table seems a cool option, but I don't recall which ones can do that. I suppose there is also the issue of service and repair parts. I'm totally in the dark as to how these units compare on that score. Ideas, anyone?

Your thoughts on what a new player should do?


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the_theologian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2012 at 11:21am
I'm getting a lot of great practice with my Newgy 2040. To me, the net recycling is a must. If I were to get a new robot, I might get the 2050, but I'm not sure it's worth the extra price since it's not switching from underspin to topspin... to each their own

It would be nice to get heavier spin without the extra speed (referring to my 2040)... but you can do a lot with this robot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2012 at 11:43am
I love my 989h. Easy to program with touch screen, and can do the kind of drills that you talk about with a 2 head robot.

Only slight issue is that it's tricky to get a really short backspin coming out of it. You can get heavy spin on mid table, but light backspin on shorter balls.

Still great though. So easy to make up your own drills. One short backspin forehand, one short backspin backhand, long topspin down the middle, no spin float to practice a smash at the end. Takes 5 minutes to stuff something like that in, and saved forever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2012 at 12:44pm
wow Andy... that robot looks awesome

I need to fly over to your place with all of my blades for you to try and I'll try that robot Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dagoboz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2012 at 12:58pm
To me the most important thing in a robot is the quality of balls that it serves up. Two wheels are far superior to one. This to me is the deciding factor.

Edited by Dagoboz - 04/27/2012 at 1:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2012 at 5:02pm
I'm assuming this is fairly obvious (and perhaps a borderline stupid question), but the "Y&T 989h" and "Paddle Palace H2W Touch Pro" are the same robots, right?
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AndySmith View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2012 at 5:48pm
Yeah. A lot of companies rebadge the y&t robots to sell in their territories. Same robot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2012 at 9:54pm
Ah, cool - thanks Andy. Smile
(I just ordered one of those, so I'm happy to hear you like it that much)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cameronreddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2012 at 8:17am
Andy,

I read the review of your machine at Fareastsports and the one complaint I note is the machine's inability to give an actual serve where the ball bounces on both sides of the table.

I'm trying to determine if that is a significant shortcoming given the importance (and what I considered to be the main value to having a two-wheel machine) of getting slow, high-spin shots thrown at you. This, given your comment about the difficulty in getting really slow high-spin shots from the 989H.

Comments? For how long have you owned the 989H? Is this your first robot? Have you used any others?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2012 at 9:44am
You have got it a little wrong. A single wheel robot is very capable of doing short underspin serves. Where the single wheel robot falls short is it can only shoot spinny balls with spin relative to speed. It can't shoot low spin or dead balls. If you want to be able to do drills with game like sequences then you really need to look at the latest programmable systems. The ones I like the most are the Y&T 989H which is a single head dual wheel and the Newstar 2080 which is the same.

1st the Y&T 989H. It has a cool touch screen and looks to be the easiest system in the world to program anything from single shots to game like points. However I have used the a S27 and the Y&T heads struggle to produce slow spinny shots. To fix this you need to move the robot back off the table which will allow you to program a realistic serve of almost any type. This robot looks generally to be very easy to use.

2nd the Newstar 2080. It is rumored to have crazy powerful throwing wheel motors that produce super spin or power of both. It also is capable of reversing motors to produce short shots with loads of spin which is something that no other dual wheel robot can do as far as I know. I am pretty technicly minded but after reading the manual I am still confused as to excatly how to set things up. It has a crazy amount of potential but will take some experimenting to work out. But off the top of my head you can have the robot anywhere up to about 5m off the table with the net still attached to the table! It has 8 position memories which can save 32 shots, 8 combos and some other function (I think batch settings). It has mulitple random modes that I can't quite understand without playing with it but I think it can vary the sequence of a combo and or vary the particulars of a shot setting. Generally it looks awesome but will be complicated to use until you work it out.

Rich125 has written a few reviews on various high end robots. He could give you some great advice when he finds this thread. If you want a copy of the Newstar 2080 manual to read through, shot me your e-mail and I can send it too you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2012 at 9:51am
I would take Oukei 2700 S9 for about 4600 yuans plus shipping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cameronreddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2012 at 10:12am
Golden, excellent post! Obviously, we need some actual experience with these units. I am very sensitive to the complexity issue. I did read Rich125's review of the Newstar and was overwhelmed with the programming requirements. That simply would not work for me. If it's not fairly easy to use, it won't get used. To have that many functions jammed onto a tiny remote with only 4 digits to read... Seriously? I have enough trouble getting my printer to switch to envelopes from normal paper... I fight with it every time as I simply can't recall what I did last time... But, I have to admit, Rich125 made it sound fantastic. Put a nice touch screen on a control box, arm that with some easy to select programs, and it would be a sure winner.

Imago, why would you take the S9?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2012 at 10:22am
Originally posted by cameronreddy cameronreddy wrote:

Andy,

I read the review of your machine at Fareastsports and the one complaint I note is the machine's inability to give an actual serve where the ball bounces on both sides of the table.

I'm trying to determine if that is a significant shortcoming given the importance (and what I considered to be the main value to having a two-wheel machine) of getting slow, high-spin shots thrown at you. This, given your comment about the difficulty in getting really slow high-spin shots from the 989H.

Comments? For how long have you owned the 989H? Is this your first robot? Have you used any others?
 
Not many robots can deliver a double-bounce serve.  I don't care about that really - I wanted more "active play" drills myself.
 
One of the issues with many robots is how the wheels in the head determine both the speed and spin of the delivery.  I can program a really heavy backspin delivery, and the bottom wheel will be spinning very quickly, and the top wheel hardly moves at all.  But that means the ball is thrown out pretty quickly as well, so you get a really heavy mid-table ball.  The 989H suffers from this problem. 
 
Some robots use a deflector plate to angle the ball delivery after the spin has been applied (see Butterfly Amicus range), which helps with this issue.  They are expensive though.
 
I've had the 989H since January this year.  I've used the Newgy 2040 quite a lot previously (my club has this one).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2012 at 10:23am
Originally posted by cameronreddy cameronreddy wrote:

Golden, excellent post! Obviously, we need some actual experience with these units. I am very sensitive to the complexity issue. I did read Rich125's review of the Newstar and was overwhelmed with the programming requirements. That simply would not work for me. If it's not fairly easy to use, it won't get used. To have that many functions jammed onto a tiny remote with only 4 digits to read... Seriously? I have enough trouble getting my printer to switch to envelopes from normal paper... I fight with it every time as I simply can't recall what I did last time... But, I have to admit, Rich125 made it sound fantastic. Put a nice touch screen on a control box, arm that with some easy to select programs, and it would be a sure winner.

Imago, why would you take the S9?
 
Yes, I have thought that if the Newstar had the touchscreen remote of the 989H, you would have the ultimate robot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2012 at 1:28pm
Ok guys....couple comments here.

On the Newstar robot, the motors do not reverse direction.  The motors have a good amount of speed, but also more importantly they have a very wide range of speed from top to bottom.  This is why the robot can make so much spin and speeds.  

The motors on other high end robots are totally capable if such higher speeds, but the programming and such of the robot to control them is what is limiting them.  I don't understand why this is a problem for some manufactures to make the robots have this wide range of speed difference and also the ability to have a larger amount of control over the steps in speed settings. The analog dial controls on the Oukei 08 robots for example, worked very well in this regard. The Oukei S9 does not use the same analog dials to change motor speeds and lacks what the 08 can do for motor control and speeds. But because of the electronic programing involved with the S9, it would of been hard to setup the electronic to mechanical motor speed changes with an analog dial motor speed setting function. 

Now with some of the digital buttons or touch screen motor speed settings, there is not enough steps in speed change to be able to select.  This is one area that Y&T for instance could make things much better on their robots.  I wish they made their robots to allow much more speeds and steps in speeds on their robots.  The motors they use are totally capable of this. 


As for the Newstar having a cool control pad like the Y&T 989H......that would be my dream.  The Newstar would probably be a $2000+ robot at that point though.   

@ cameronreddy.......if service training is important to you....Double Snakes robots are very nice for this.  They also allow for very high shots too.  Their heads have a large range of movement like the Newstar robot. The Double Snakes and Newstar robots have the largest range of head movement out of any robot I have seen so far.  You will be in the upper tear of pricing though.  

If you want to get a robot that will have mixed spins from ball to ball....your choices are limited and price is a factor.  This is the one ability that you will pay for the most.  You do not need a double headed/4 throwing wheel robot to be able to do this. 







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2012 at 12:26am
I'm sure the Newstar manual said it could reverse motors... Apparently patented technology according to the manual. I might have confused this with something else when I breezed through it.

Probably one thing to consider before you buy a robot is who much do you need it. If you can reguarly train with other players who are willing to train and not just have games then a simple robot for shot training is all you may need. If you get very limited training oppotunity then a high robot that can play complete points from a service into a rally will help you develop your game a lot. So the question is how much robot do you "need".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cameronreddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/01/2012 at 1:52pm
Can any of you guys compare the new Killerspin Throw with the Newgy 2050?
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