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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilbeerthoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2012 at 6:11pm
Stop relate this defeat with London Olympics. Ma Long lost simply because he could not handle the pressure, wich is normal (.

Edited by Wilbeerthoven - 05/19/2012 at 6:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2012 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by ejmaster ejmaster wrote:




Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:


Chinese coaches are trying to destroy Ma Long.  I believe he´s not feeling motivated and upset/dissapointed because of his discard for OG at singles event.
 
I also think Ma Long's motivation is zero since he was discarded from the OG singles event.
 
btwy, koki was a little destroyed by the old and close to retire Ma Lin. I do not understand how it is possible if he was in an unstoppable progression. something is happening here.





Exactly what is happening? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Wang Hao and Zhang Jike where selected due to their ranking, and there was nothing the Chinese coaches could do about that? Or, was there? Cause the way I understand it, the only way to replace either of these players would be if they where injured?

Ma Long have been on fire for so long, so I only think it is natural if he have a little set back now and I don't think it has anything to do with the Olympics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2012 at 6:27pm
Everybody loses sometimes and there are a lot of dangerous players out there, so at top ITTF level you don't need to be very far off your game to be in trouble.  But this puts Wang Liqin's accomplishment of being ranked number 1 in the world for 48 straight months in perspective.  That is why I have maintained for some time that he is the greatest player of the modern era. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2012 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Originally posted by ejmaster ejmaster wrote:




Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:


Chinese coaches are trying to destroy Ma Long.  I believe he´s not feeling motivated and upset/dissapointed because of his discard for OG at singles event.
 
I also think Ma Long's motivation is zero since he was discarded from the OG singles event.
 
btwy, koki was a little destroyed by the old and close to retire Ma Lin. I do not understand how it is possible if he was in an unstoppable progression. something is happening here.





Exactly what is happening? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Wang Hao and Zhang Jike where selected due to their ranking, and there was nothing the Chinese coaches could do about that? Or, was there? Cause the way I understand it, the only way to replace either of these players would be if they where injured?

Ma Long have been on fire for so long, so I only think it is natural if he have a little set back now and I don't think it has anything to do with the Olympics.
 
i meant something is happening to the supposedly unstoppable progression in koki niwa not about Ma Long.
 
Ma Long has no pressure at all. That is the problem. He is going to fight to win what?. The ittf korean open?. There is no challenge to Ma Long. 


Edited by ejmaster - 05/19/2012 at 6:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2012 at 6:48pm
Ma Long imo did all this for free marketing.
Look at all the coverage he made on MYTT forum during the Asian Qualifiers.
Now watch this thread become 200+ post long.

Ma Long planned all this Wink

(if Ma Long won Korea open, I'm sure the thread will be 10 times smaller lol)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2012 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by Wilbeerthoven Wilbeerthoven wrote:

Stop relate this defeat with London Olympics. Ma Long lost simply because he could not handle the pressure, wich is normal (.

Pressure to win the Korea Open?

Ma Long is just playing unmotivated now.  We all know what makes Ma Long special, it's the way he keeps the pressure on you seeming regardless of situation.  It's the way he runs after every ball, contorts his body into all sorts of shapes to get a strong attack in, FH and BH.  Against Lee and Koki, he looks like he's glued to the floor, playing a quick blocking/countering game that's more like Ma Lin's style, except not as well since, well, it's not his style, it's Ma Lin's!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jinlai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2012 at 10:11pm
Now that Ma Long has lost twice (once recently at the Olympic Qualification Round), what can we say about the Pro equipment/rubber that he uses? So don't blame the blade and rubber that you are using, just keep on practicing hard, put in more effort, play more matches, join more competitions, etc, that's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikepong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2012 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by jinlai jinlai wrote:

Now that Ma Long has lost twice (once recently at the Olympic Qualification Round), what can we say about the Pro equipment/rubber that he uses? So don't blame the blade and rubber that you are using, just keep on practicing hard, put in more effort, play more matches, join more competitions, etc, that's.

i have no doubts that the equipments that he uses are top notch in terms of quality
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilbeerthoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2012 at 11:06am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Originally posted by Wilbeerthoven Wilbeerthoven wrote:

Stop relate this defeat with London Olympics. Ma Long lost simply because he could not handle the pressure, wich is normal (.) 

Pressure to win the Korea Open?

Ma Long is just playing unmotivated now.  We all know what makes Ma Long special, it's the way he keeps the pressure on you seeming regardless of situation.  It's the way he runs after every ball, contorts his body into all sorts of shapes to get a strong attack in, FH and BH.  Against Lee and Koki, he looks like he's glued to the floor, playing a quick blocking/countering game that's more like Ma Lin's style, except not as well since, well, it's not his style, it's Ma Lin's!

Yes, pressure of losing in the second round, come on he is the #1 seed of the tournament ... What happens is that everyone in front of him nowadays gives 200% of themselves and want to make the game of their lives. After watching his victory in the first round i said, "Ma Long is really badass!" because I was very impressed with his ability to convert points in very decisive moments and in a manner which causes a mess on the opponent. I really hoped for him but same did not happen against Lee. 

ps: I could not find the same font you're using. Dead


Edited by Wilbeerthoven - 05/20/2012 at 11:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2012 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by mikepong mikepong wrote:

i have no doubts that the equipments that he uses are top notch in terms of quality


Eh, you never know, Samsanov switched from his ancient blade finally, the thing was like warped from years of speed gluing, and went to a new setup, blade, rubbers, and won the world cup beating Ma Long and Chen Qi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2012 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Chinese coaches are trying to destroy Ma Long.  I believe he´s not feeling motivated and upset/dissapointed because of his discard for OG at singles event.



That  why he lost. Ma Long is not happy. He look very desapointed with discard of olimpic game singles.Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by power7 power7 wrote:

I think  Lee Sang Su has been training specifically to take on Ma Long for a long time now, hoping for their eventual match.  Who doesn't want to have a chance at hitting a smash at #1.  I don't think Ma Long trained specifically to take on Lee Sang Su, yet.  



the same hype when kishikawa beat ma long, i would bet that ML would crush lee if he wasnt disheartened by liu decision, you train a whole life to pursue a dream and suddenly is gone, that would lead to depresion any athlete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 2:43am
Guys,

Ma Long knew that he was in trouble 1 year ago, when May 2011 ranking was released.
If maybe ZJK or WH form is not that good, then they may be an injury subsitution.

I'm sure Ma Long knew his fate, and he may be disappointed, and is really on a low now. I looks like he doesn't even know how to play table tennis, and this was something that LGL mentioned about both ML and ZJK after the Dortmund.

Why don't you guys debate that Ma Long is not number one in CTTSL? and he is young and that with the Chinese system, they really test your character and you need to fight for any place and never get spoon feeded.

I guess if the likes of Timo Boll and other players out there needs to find for rights to play, they will work harder and be mentally more stronger to compete, then oppose to "free entry" to any compeition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 6:00am
I'm a fan of ML and hopes he comes back with a vengeance. Buuuuut, he's a professional and can't make any excuses.  He should be motivated to steamroll through everyone like he has been prior to the Olympics decision.  The Olympics isn't everything. Arguably, it's value has cheapened.... at least in table tennis.  If he continues his career by beating up on the competition, including his teammates, history will remember him for his dominance.... not his lack of appearance in one Olympics.

I've been and still am a fan of Wang Liqin.  It was probably disappointing for him, but I don't feel his lack of gold/silver in Olympic singles has made him any less of a player.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 8:40am
ZApenholder, I'm a big fan of Ma Long and I really feel for him not beeing able to play singles at the Olympics, and I agree that it is extremely hard to be the one who represents China in table tennis when there so many excellent players. But what you're saying about Boll is a bit of a nonsence. Do you have an idea how "important" is TT as a sport in most of the other countries? That's not football or basketball, where you could earn a lot of money even if you're not that good as a player. TT is not a priority for the Ministry of sports/government. Nobody gets "spoon feeded". If Boll can enter any competition that's because he's top 5 in the world, not because he's a German, and he has fought long and hard to get there. He never had the best coaches and team colleagues/training partners in the world  - and the Chinese have it practically for free, it's just the way it is. TT is a state policy in China, they have this only sport where they can dominate the whole world, they have millions of players to choose from and they can invest unlimited resources to keep it going. So stop being so hard on the rest of the world, if there are players like Boll, who manage to beat the Chinese from time to time, it's because they have put an enormous effort, not because somebody offered them millions of dollars just to play TT.

Edited by mg - 05/23/2012 at 8:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 8:59am
lol MG calm down.

If Germany is going to be in any compeition, Timo Boll will be a direct pick from its coaches and team management right? Haven't even talked about like it will be the case for 10~15 years

Where in China's case, every 5 years is a new generation, and you may have 5 players that is higher than Timo's caliber and is only allowed to choose 2 or 3.

And as a CNT member, you have to win, you are not allowed to loose. Where a non Chinese will be - you are not expected to win, so try your best and play without "fear"
So mentally it is tougher in China than any where else of the world. 

I have noticed the likes of Ma Lin, Wang Hao and Wang Liqin going through some very bad mental dips, and now seeing a young Ma Long.
I never heard of these mental problems durings the days of Kong and Liu and before them.... I think it is a worrying factor on how much more pressure these youngsters are put under.

BTW I am not commenting on the TT system in Europe or that manner, I am commenting on the "strict" Chinese system and the player themselves vs players from other countries "pressure"




Edited by ZApenholder - 05/23/2012 at 9:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 9:09am
I don't think the Chinese players have it easy either.  To be in CNT, where you can get financial support, is not easy at all.  These players still need family support, and work their butts off, just like the rest of us, and only a few can make it big.  On top of that they usually don't get to play pass 30 yrs old.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 9:37am
I'm pretty calm actuallySleepy But it's not Timo's fault that Germany doesn't have better jounger players, and it's not like he doesn't deserve his place at any event. As I said I agree that it is extremely tough for the Chinese players. But they are a product of the Chinese system, they could not get that far in another country, every situation has advantages and disadvantages. In Ma Long's case it's worse, because he was dominating the sport for a year, he's healthy, but still he can't compete for the Olympic title in singles, I don't think something like that has happened in another sport, he's a victim of a stupid rule. I guess if you ask ZJK about that he will say that everything is just perfectLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 10:06am
MG, as long we all calm - super cool lol

There is so much pressure to be number 1 Chinese player, you just need a few weeks of bad form, then you in trouble. You can become number 5 or number 10 within a month or so.

Timo can have 1 year of bad form, and he won't be under the same pressure as a Chinese if you know what I mean.
I guess same will be applied of there are 5 juniors knocking on Timo's door for a 2 man spot and on how much pressure Timo would be to remain no 1 German player etc. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. And yes, Timo deserves his place and only using him as an example than using another Asian team.

And yes, ZJK or WH for that matter may consider themselves lucky and I still don't think 2 player rule is fair and right. But with rights to Olympics participation comes with huge responsiblity. They have no choice but to bring back Olympic gold. Silver and Bronze is Failure and embarrasements etc.

Now the rest just want to get a medal, or just cause some upsets and have fun etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 10:25am
I feel bad for Ma Long.  And I do think that it's just a very tough time for him in his career.  I think 2, 3 years ago, Zhang Jike wasn't as good as Ma Long was and Zhang Jike just got a big jump 2 years ago with big winning that proves he's one of the best while Ma Long had been already the best of the best. And Zhang Jike just got lucky in winning the important events that booked him the ticket to London.  Wang Hao is another story and I don't think Ma Long gets envy about Wang Hao going to London.  Ma Long and Zhang Jike are rivalries and either one can go to the Olympic will make the other upset.
 
Anyway, I would think Ma Long has no motivation to compete in a while and his performance will go down (I did wrote at another discussion that his style is pretty hard for him to keep up with the performance that he had several months ago) but I just hope that he will pick himself up and be the best again.  Everybody has a low time in their career but what makes the difference between a good player and a legend is that the legend will pick himself up and become better.
 
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Edited by FireHorse - 05/23/2012 at 10:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 10:31am
Here is the rankings in CTTSL for the past few years:

Year

Zhang Jike

Ma Long

2011

1

2

2010

1

3

2009

2

1

2008

10

1

2007

7

2

2006

41

9


Zhang Jike is also doing sightly better than Ma Long in the Super League
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 10:53am

Another thing kinda related to Ma Long and Zhang Jike and the Olympic, I believe that this time is the time for Zhang Jike.  I'm not sure if there's anyone strong enough to compete with Zhang Jike in singles unless he gets sick.  I think with Zhang Jike's personality, he will be on fire most of the time.  To me, the only one who Zhang Jike fears the most would be Ma Long (and vice versa).

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Edited by FireHorse - 05/23/2012 at 10:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 11:23am
Zhang Jike's weakness is himself.
In fact, LGL considers both of them in the same league when comes to psychologically speaking, and he said that they physcial training is over, he can't help them any more on how to play, but rather need to try and coach them psychologically.

We can clearly see that in Dortmund when ZJK was playing Timo Boll.
The points he lost when leading was really not the same ZJK during the same game. ZJK even admitted that he was trying to hard and ended up no where.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snerdly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 1:42pm
Ma Long has been kept off the singles roster because he has failed to produce any results in "World" events, something the powers that be see as too big of a risk even with his 51 game winning streak.  And true to form Ma Long falters under the pressure.  Ma Long is the victim of performance anxiety, he chokes, and his coaches know it.

Zhang Jike was twice removed from the first team for total time equaling more than 2 years.  He could't play singles, or doubles, in any international event.  It might have been a tough time in his career. 
Then he is allowed to take his place on the team and he has charged directly into the finals of every "World" event he competes in.  Jike does not falter under pressure, he excels, and his coaches know it.  He is one motivated, shirt ripping mofo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gauguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 1:51pm
Ma Long is human after all!!! And please give some credit to Niwa, He played well under pressure for his young age...Just imagine 1,300 millions people looking after you compare to 150 millions...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 3:57pm
Gauguin
Niwa is history, that is the old thread.
We talking about Ma Long's lost in the Korean open, and talking about Ma Long and Zhang Jike.
In the other thread, we all gave credit to Niwa already, so that is why you won't see it here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 6:22pm
i do not find sense thinking Ma Long is weak mentally or he chokes. At present after consolidating his dominance, how come he is going to think about failing when he has crushed everybody including an unbalanced record against the only one who may do something zjk.
In the zjk Ma Long matches it is clear zjk is lot more stressed than Ma Long. Ma Long plays really confident against zjk.
After losing against Lee (zero importance, though Lee did it more convincingly than koki Niwa) i watched the doubles final.
And there is a big detail to appreciate. LGL was coaching zjk and Wang Hao against Ma Long and XX.
Ma Long and XX won 4-0, but the thing to appreciate is Ma Long game prevailing over zjk, WH and XX play.
 
He was the leader in that match. And he looks motivated. And he definitely unbalanced the doubles final to his side. XX just colaborates. But the fierce Ma Long was showing he is the real number one in the world.
 
If Ma Long is motivated there is only one dominant player in the court. This is Ma Long. And zjk will win till Ma Long gets in. The present Ma Long is an even better Ma Long in the past.
 
Though he has lost 2 no motivation matches he is the number one ahead from zjk. He is not going to fail at present when the time comes. He is superior to the rest. In the doubles final he was motivated, he was feeling a challenge and he was the best from the 4 best players in the world. The leader is Ma Long. 
 
 

Edited by ejmaster - 05/23/2012 at 6:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 6:29pm
Ejmaster.

I think it is comfort zone issue.

Ma Long is trying hard, and trying too hard and not being himself.
He admitted to only playing 50% or less after his game with Koki Niwa.
He was "stuck" and nothing worked

LGL stated a long time already that ML and ZJK are still young and have the biggest problem upon the top 5 (at that time - Ma Lin, Wang Hao, Wang Liqin, Ma Long and Zhang Jike) with mental weaknesses.

I think that video I posted about Journey from Dortmund to London, where LGL explains both ZJK and ML will explain a lot more detail on the issues they are facing today still. That interview also analysis both players mental weakness against Germany in the final


Edited by ZApenholder - 05/23/2012 at 6:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 6:38pm
Ma Long has not showed mental weakness from long time ago. Neither Ma Long nor zjk.
 
On the contrary. Both Ma Long and zjk are relaxing and losing in non important matches. But both at present look really focused when it is their time. 
 
The difference is that Ma Long is better than zjk. And Ma Long feels better against zjk than zjk against Ma Long.
 
The Ma Long from the past was not so good as Ma Long now. He could fail. A fair fail.
 
i do not see Ma Long failing. He has showed his dominance more than enough.
 
And to lose some matches in non saying tournaments what zjk also does it is no sign of anything.
 
There is little chance for the rest (wh, malin) against Ma Long and zjk. The past is not the present situation.
 
At anytime Ma Long is motivated particularly against his mates there is a Ma Long with eye of the tiger. In the doubles final he was motivated. Wh and zjk with LGL were in front.
And he played sending the message 'I am the number one'.


Edited by ejmaster - 05/23/2012 at 6:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2012 at 6:47pm
Well, I won't debate with you in terms of Ma Long not showing mental weakness etc. As I haven't watch much TT matches during the past 5 years until past 6 months, so can't really answer you from my own experience or view point of Ma Long's progress.

But have shared with you what Liu Guo Liang pointed out after the World Teams.

You should watch that interview where he was talking about Ma Long and Zhang Jike mental weaknesses that needs to improve. And having video playbacks of the game against Germany to point out what happened. The players had to explain why they did that etc.

It is 1 hour long for Mens and 1 hour long for womens.
All 3 player that played in the final was interviewed, with head coach Liu in mens interview, and Shi in Women, both accompanying they players




Edited by ZApenholder - 05/23/2012 at 6:48pm
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