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Direct Link To This Post Topic: An answer to 'What's your problem with it'
    Posted: 05/21/2012 at 10:36pm
This is a reply to yogi_bear's questions posted to me on this thread that is now closed (presumably by him). Since his questions were public, let the answers be public too (I don't want to give an impression that I shied away from answering): we can continue by PM after that & this thread can be closed if you so wish. Please don't delete this as this is quite civil (at least on my part).

This is the thread at the end of which question was asked:

Firstly, kudos on the new stuff you got. I hope you get many 100s of rubbers & blades more from them. I honestly feel good for you on that.

You asked:
slevin, i posted the link in that fb page linking info to my reviews, what's your problem with it?

My problem is with your deceptive practices. I have no problem with advertising in case it is clearly marked as such. You are misleading forum readers to be an unbiased reviewer while clearly being compensated by Adidas. This defeats the very purpose that so many of us come to this forum for - to get unbiased advice.

Yes, you have mentioned in past posts that you get free stuff from them. However, it is not in your signature. Most of us don't really read the history of the author of each post they read. So, if you don't disclose that in each post in which you promote Adidas, you're engaging in a deceptive practice.

Your suggesting readers of the FB page (http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=145623875491962&story_fbid=261751963920076) to go to mytabletennis.net to read reviews on adidas is very deceptive. You didn't mention there that (1) you're yogi_bear (2) you wrote those reviews and (3) you're compensated by Adidas.

If you're suggesting that you're not being compensated by Adidas, then I have a problem with that. Your profile photo on FB is an adidas logo (as seen on that FB page) The main photo one sees when one clicks on your name in FB is of the free stuff you received. In this forum, you just posted photos of Adidas stuff you received as one of your many gifts (the photos include rubbers you've already reviewed). 1 rubber may be a gift. 21 rubbers and a bunch of blades = compensation. And you've mentioned before that you have received more. You, dear sir, are not what I call an unbiased reviewer.

I understand this is just a sport, but in my line of work (finance), many have gotten jailed for going this far. But here, I'm reasonably sure what you're doing here might be legal. However, it is unethical and I'm calling you out for it.

You keep mentioning that you've reviewed Stiga, Joola and other stuff in the past. That is no defense at all of what you're doing here.

I just read this post as well raising the same question:
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

There is something that has been bothering me more than just a little, and yogi bear, please don't take this as a personal attack.  However....

You are writing a lot of reviews about Adidas products which are supposedly unbiased, but it also seems that you have access to a lot of their marketing material and have some sort of commercial relationship with them as a distributor, vendor or something.  It is not clear.  But you make blanket statements about Adidas rubbers (Tenzone performance better than tenergy without specifying what aspect of the performance; citation of a "study" on longevity of rubbers without citing any source or link where someone could go to verify).    

I believe you have an ethical obligation to disclose precisely the nature of your relationship with Adidas.  That way people can evaluate your reviews with that information in hand -- in other words, to consider the possiblity at least that you may have a conflict of interest and are not a truly unbiased reviewer.  

Please remember that this is not personal from me as well. Perhaps, I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. Just disclose the info in your sig, dude. Then its all good.


Edit: this is hopefully the last you'll read me post about this.



Edited by slevin - 05/21/2012 at 10:41pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:17am
I wanted to ask Yogi if those Adidas tensors are current generation or the Vega pro/Hexer generation. As we know, there are no ESN tensor better than another from any other company, generation for generation they are only slightly different at best. Given the time the Adidas rubbers have been released they can't possibly be current generation or any better than the older Vega Pro/Hexer and Barucada/Acuda rubbers. The reviews tend to suggest they are worlds better. That's just something I've been thinking about. I'm sure some of the blades are good but I wouldn't mind knowing who is making them for Adidas


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 4:52am
Personally, I don't have a problem with what yogi's doing in a general sense.  After all, most of the online reviewers receive their stuff from manufacturers for free, and I'm talking about big time sites like CNET and such.  With that said, I don't recall yogi saying one truly bad thing about any of the Adidas products he reviewed, and that's really quite suspicious.  Simply disclosing his relationship with Adidas isn't enough, IMO, since reviewers receiving free stuff is nothing new, but it appears to me that an attempt at being unbiased is sorely needed.

I mean, I'd love to try the Adidas stuff...for free.  If I end up having to pay for it, well, then the marketing campaign has already worked.  There are thousands of types of rubbers out there, I can't try them all.  When I feel like changing things up, I need to at least be able to narrow things down to a few choices, and that's the whole point of coming onto this board to read reviews, unbiased reviews.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 5:22am
I worked with companies that deals with manufacturers and reviewers. They had a contract that will send the final review to the company/manufacturers to check and get approve before being released in print and internet. - Yes or No to release the review and not changing the review etc.

Now what is wrong with that? You should position yourself from both positions, what is the reviewer has a hate with that company or manufacturer? It is business at a end of the day. and I am not saying that Yogi_bear is in foul play or not.

I don't think it is a matter of biased and unbiased review in Yogi_bear's instance.
What are you guys trying to proof? Have you gone and check ever review that Yogi_bear provided? (I did not, so I will remain neutral, and even if I did, I am in no authority to judge Yogi_bear)

What if Yogi_bear is doing us all a favour in reviewing for us? We just go and run Yogi_bear like that? Did we say "happy birthday", or is our first message is more "ill intention based"?

Have you put yourself in Yogi_bear shoe? How would you do it so you won't generate misunderstandings or threads like this? (Maybe you can teach me and Yogi_bear). I've been in similiar situation before, so maybe I have experienced it and a bit more sense to put myself in all 3 parties (the reader, reviewer, manafacturer) shoe. Trust me, it is not easy to be a good guy or do things for free at the end of the day.

If Yogi_bear is biased or unbiased - time will tell.

So I think we should off take off our supreme court judge hats and just appriceite all the goods in this forum and be grateful that it is free to us. For the bads, there is really no way we can police something like this, we all rely on "gentlemens" agreement and trust, but as I say, time will tell.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 5:39am
Well I won't let my opinion be formed/changed by 1 reviewer anyway.

I do agree with some things that are said above, like getting a birthday gift with 21 rubbers and a few blades isn't really a gift. Not even your best friend would give you a gift worth that much in cash (emotional value's are different).

Seconds thing I find strange is that yogi_bear thinks almost every Adidas rubber/blade/shoe/shirt/sock is the best available or at least the best available for his finances (although he gets it for free).

I recently went shopping for a new boxspring and yogi_bear gives me the feeling of most of the salesmen. They all claim their shop's boxspringline the best and whatever. I eventually bought a boxspring from a store that actually selected a bed for me below my budget, instead of stretching it.

So what im saying is pretty much this:
Yogi_bear either is a Adidas fan or salesman, in neither cases do I think his reviews are unbiased.

Ps. I like Adidas aswell for soccer etc, as a TT brand they are pretty good but won't be able to compete with Tenergy rubbers, I see them more as a Xiom brand.


Edited by Thomasson - 05/22/2012 at 5:41am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 5:50am
Thomasson,
I think you used a very important words there, "you won't be changed" and "fan" - I'm not saying Yogi_bear is a "Fan" or not though.

Ie, if I'm a DHS fan, you won't hear any bad of DHS coming from my mouth, and I might even go the extra mile and hijack all the threads where I can put in a good word of DHS lol.
Plus I may not have a business relationship at all with DHS to do all this, that is the power of "fans".

Example, A fan going to a ManU sport bar in England, and shout out "His fav clubs name + rocks". I would pray that that guy can run very fast.... It is silly I know, but I'm sure it has happened before, as the fans may go the extra mile.

Anyways, I am hoping that Adidas as a big American corporate company, may rescue TT and put it on the international radar, where it is well deserved to be. The other traditional TT brands, only gotten so far, I hope Adidas is the one to start a change for good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 5:59am
I think you are correct ZApenholder, although my comments might seem harsh, I fully understand the position Yogi_bear is in and I would do the same if I had the possibility, this is human nature.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 6:59am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

This is a reply to yogi_bear's questions posted to me on this thread that is now closed (presumably by him). Since his questions were public, let the answers be public too (I don't want to give an impression that I shied away from answering): we can continue by PM after that & this thread can be closed if you so wish. Please don't delete this as this is quite civil (at least on my part).

This is the thread at the end of which question was asked:

Firstly, kudos on the new stuff you got. I hope you get many 100s of rubbers & blades more from them. I honestly feel good for you on that.

You asked:
slevin, i posted the link in that fb page linking info to my reviews, what's your problem with it?

My problem is with your deceptive practices. I have no problem with advertising in case it is clearly marked as such. You are misleading forum readers to be an unbiased reviewer while clearly being compensated by Adidas. This defeats the very purpose that so many of us come to this forum for - to get unbiased advice.

My answer - no you are misleading people here into believing that only adidas sends me stuff. The fact that im open about receiving stuff not just from one company but 4! 

Yes, you have mentioned in past posts that you get free stuff from them. However, it is not in your signature. Most of us don't really read the history of the author of each post they read. So, if you don't disclose that in each post in which you promote Adidas, you're engaging in a deceptive practice.

My answer - why do i have to put it in my signature? im mentioning it in my reviews ALL THE TIME! as what i have been telling people here i get free stuff not just from adidas but from other 3-4 companies, why are you trying to be so dogmatic? and who died and made you an authority to say what is to disclose and what's not? 

Your suggesting readers of the FB page (http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=145623875491962&story_fbid=261751963920076) to go to mytabletennis.net to read reviews on adidas is very deceptive. You didn't mention there that (1) you're yogi_bear (2) you wrote those reviews and (3) you're compensated by Adidas.

If you're suggesting that you're not being compensated by Adidas, then I have a problem with that. Your profile photo on FB is an adidas logo (as seen on that FB page) The main photo one sees when one clicks on your name in FB is of the free stuff you received. In this forum, you just posted photos of Adidas stuff you received as one of your many gifts (the photos include rubbers you've already reviewed). 1 rubber may be a gift. 21 rubbers and a bunch of blades = compensation. And you've mentioned before that you have received more. You, dear sir, are not what I call an unbiased reviewer.

My answer - why should i not share the link that of the review that i made? to date i have the most detailed review about those blades i have mentioned and spending the time to use those blades?  give me one good reason why its unethical to post a link for my reviews. what do you expect me to do buy those stuff to get a review? and have you ever thought why i asked for a lot of those rubbers? aside from the stuff they gave me , i asked for those because i needed to promote the brand as a friend of mine is a distributor here in the philippines and i need to give these rubbers also out for free? what is your business with me receiving 21 rubbers and a lot of stuff? before calling me biased and jumped into conclusions have you ever thought first of the motive why i was doing it instead of accusing me ?

I understand this is just a sport, but in my line of work (finance), many have gotten jailed for going this far. But here, I'm reasonably sure what you're doing here might be legal. However, it is unethical and I'm calling you out for it.

My answer - unethical in what way? i never deceived people here. i encouraged them to try these products i reviewed and they can prove me wrong anytime and it goes down to the person who is reading it to try and see if im saying the truth or not. 

You keep mentioning that you've reviewed Stiga, Joola and other stuff in the past. That is no defense at all of what you're doing here.


My answer - why are you having double standards and just picking adidas only? i have 3-4 other companies that i review for? 

I just read this post as well raising the same question:
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

There is something that has been bothering me more than just a little, and yogi bear, please don't take this as a personal attack.  However....

You are writing a lot of reviews about Adidas products which are supposedly unbiased, but it also seems that you have access to a lot of their marketing material and have some sort of commercial relationship with them as a distributor, vendor or something.  It is not clear.  But you make blanket statements about Adidas rubbers (Tenzone performance better than tenergy without specifying what aspect of the performance; citation of a "study" on longevity of rubbers without citing any source or link where someone could go to verify).    

my answer - ahmm you accuse me of being biased and then you are the one jumping to conclusions accusing me of having a business relationship with adidas! yes it is not clear so kindly give me the benefit of the doubt and not accuse me of things you do not know! 
Maybe you should oblige other people here who posts also that they should also disclose their sources when everytime they post they would think in their opinion a certain product is better than the other! why are you singling me out? there are a lot of reviewers here who have their reviews posted and yet you don't point a finger at them! 

by the way this is the link of my review on tenzones http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45042&title=adidas-tenzone-tenzone-sf-review. also, you are trying to fool people here into saying that i was mentioning only about tenzone. i was mentioning about tenzone and p7 and not just tenzone! basing on what you are posting you have not read my reviews! as for the longevity in the rubber, i have stated in the past a few times that i tested this together with some high level friends of mine but let me just elaborate to satisfy your curiousity. aside from me the following people tested the longevity of the tenzone and p7 against tenergy 05. 05fx and acuda s2:

player #1 - a former top 16 asian cup player (you would know how high is level is by just looking at it). he has used tenergy 05 we compared it using the P7 and tenzone. he used it for a month. both outlasted the tenergy 05 by about a week or 2. me because im just an above average player with good basics tenergy is 2 months tops. it includes multiball drills.

player #2 - a lady national player who used acuda s2 in her fh, s2 lasts only 2-3wks before forming bubbles. she shifted to a tenergy 05 fx it lasted almost 2 months. she uses p7 untl now. almost 3 months and it lasted longer than the t05fx she was using! 



I believe you have an ethical obligation to disclose precisely the nature of your relationship with Adidas.  That way people can evaluate your reviews with that information in hand -- in other words, to consider the possiblity at least that you may have a conflict of interest and are not a truly unbiased reviewer.  

my answer - i have already divulged my relationship in the past you just wont take it. by the way, have you ever tried any of the adidas rubbers i have reviewed? i think its the ultimate test if im just overhyping or not, have you? if not you are the one who is biased here. also, you are trying to single out just me how about the other reviewers?  
and yes i was lightly offended with what the thread went into. i wanted to share it and here i was given insults and false insinuations without even looking at all angles? i was openly stating that adidas sent me a gift. what is a couple of rubbers and blades to a billion dollar company?  

my answer - you don't really get it do you? i have said in the past time and time again that im just one of their few online reviewers and i receive stuff from them to test. why are you giving malice on the things that i post and why are you forcing a response from me to divulge my relationship with adidas when i have already answered it before its just that you will not take my answer. that is your problem! 

Please remember that this is not personal from me as well. Perhaps, I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. Just disclose the info in your sig, dude. Then its all good.

my answer - its only your opinion and not the whole forum. if they can read a review and go on to the next , whether they believe me or try those things i have said, why can't you?

Edit: this is hopefully the last you'll read me post about this.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:03am
and by the way, these reviews i have are what they are. they dont undergo any proof reading from the companies before i post. also, the reason why i have studio pics for those things i have reviewed is because i have asked for them. if other companies in the first place have the their own pics i could have posted them but they werent able to provide me with those. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:21am
I think its best to end discussion here before this turns into slack talk and rivalry, we just have to accept that people are different, some people who like a product will keep saying its the best and recommending it to everyone, while others find something they like and just shut up and play with it. Ofcourse these are the 2 extremes and there are alot of people in between. In the end its down to people themselves to make a decision.

Although I do wonder 1 thing Yogi_bear, you don't have to answer in this thread but u can do this by pm or just ignore it but please atleast think of it.

Like I said before you are only using Adidas (Blade/Rubbers/Shoes/Facebook profile picture), don't you understand people will think you are biased? No matter how much I like the Tenergy rubbers or Butterfly blades, I wont change my profile picture in their logo (personality differences once again perhaps).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:25am
Originally posted by Thomasson Thomasson wrote:

I think its best to end discussion here before this turns into slack talk and rivalry, we just have to accept that people are different, some people who like a product will keep saying its the best and recommending it to everyone, while others find something they like and just shut up and play with it. Ofcourse these are the 2 extremes and there are alot of people in between. In the end its down to people themselves to make a decision.

Although I do wonder 1 thing Yogi_bear, you don't have to answer in this thread but u can do this by pm or just ignore it but please atleast think of it.

Like I said before you are only using Adidas (Blade/Rubbers/Shoes/Facebook profile picture), don't you understand people will think you are biased? No matter how much I like the Tenergy rubbers or Butterfly blades, I wont change my profile picture in their logo (personality differences once again perhaps).

well i needed to defend myself from his accusations. and whether i like it or not he is giving question to my credibility as a reviewer. and no that is not true, its not only adidas products i put into my profile pic. i change my profile pic often and not just use adidas. you can check my profile pics folder and you will see its not only adidas. pls pm me your fb add. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:28am
why are you giving malice on the things
I think I may have an answer - jealousy? lol

Yogi Bear,
Don't worry too much on those people out there.
A lot of time, people dont recongise the good deeds, but rather turn it against you (I've fallen victim of these abuses many times before)
You doing a damn good job, and happy birthday.
BTW, will those "gift" last you until your next birthday??

Slevin,
The fact is, even if the likes of Yogi Bear or me or who ever is WRONG, there is no authority from you or whoever else to judge here. This is a fair world and we determine ourselved if we are influenced or not from the marketing, propaganda, baised or unbaised or what ever feedback we get in our lifes.
No need to run down, slander or defame any one here publically. If you don't like Yogi_bears reveiws, then ignore it, and don't read it. Yogi_bear sure don't need to disclose anything to you publically, and if any is disclosed, that is more of courtesy to you and us, than oppose to our "rights" to know.

I read a few of Yogi_bears review before, I like what is Adidas is doing as a company (as almost every sport they touch, turns to gold), but I'm not likely going to try out Adidas rubbers any time soon - that is my individual thought (I am old enough to make my own decision etc)

Imagine MY TT forum with no reviews from "professional" reviewers, or people that is not allowed to feedback individual experiences with equipement (I tested my new blade, Ma Lin Carbon last night and wanted to provide feedback. Will people think I am affliated to Yasaka then? lol).

Any ways, I think we just need to respect the guys that are doing so much more than the rest of us. And if there is any "under the table" things invovled, so what? There is so much more real life issues that may be happening around you,why come to make a scene here?


Edited by ZApenholder - 05/22/2012 at 7:32am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:33am
ZAP thanks i do not brand him as envious or like that its just that he jumped to conclusions to soon. and no, ill be using the1/4 of those rubbers and the other ill give to my high level friends, my varsity students, i sold 3-4 rubbers to cover my taxes
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:38am
anyway, both of us have aired our sides. i think i will not entertain this anymore. though i will consider a few  of his complains to a certain degree but not much
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:43am
I was like thinking, 21 rubbers.
If you use 2 rubbers every 5 weeks, that is 50 weeks or one year worth of rubbers.
Plus, you need to play like a pro to wear out those rubbers etc lol.

And yes, Billion dollar company, your gift isn't really "expensive" in a way.
I worked with billion dollar companies, and for them to give away a free sample/gift of USD1500 was like peanuts to them
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 8:05am
Bias or not, if the review is detail like the one Yogi did, then I think it is valuable information.  If anyone find the information to be incorrect (through their own testing, or experience with the product), then they can put in their opinion.  Chanlenging the review, without even trying the product is a waste of time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 8:29am
The problem is gifts and even sponsorship can easily manipulate your thought process and the way ones mind sees a product and cause bias even if you don't intend on it. Big companies know that and that's why they send gifts to anyone that praises them. Box's full of goodies arriving to a TV presenter than gives anything a good word is common practice. So long as well all know who's affiliated with whom then it's no big problem, just remember to take everything from those reviews with a grain of salt
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 8:33am
bluebucket, i agree with that but it doesnt change my views because i have already reviewed the products they have sent me again. even with adidas products i cannot still get away with my stiga ebenholz 7, the one that anton gave me and its still my favorite blade. if you have noticed or read, i strongly promote stiga on blades questions aside from adidas. my profile signature is not the entire proof 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 9:07am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Personally, I don't have a problem with what yogi's doing in a general sense.  After all, most of the online reviewers receive their stuff from manufacturers for free, and I'm talking about big time sites like CNET and such.  With that said, I don't recall yogi saying one truly bad thing about any of the Adidas products he reviewed, and that's really quite suspicious.  Simply disclosing his relationship with Adidas isn't enough, IMO, since reviewers receiving free stuff is nothing new, but it appears to me that an attempt at being unbiased is sorely needed.

I mean, I'd love to try the Adidas stuff...for free.  If I end up having to pay for it, well, then the marketing campaign has already worked.  There are thousands of types of rubbers out there, I can't try them all.  When I feel like changing things up, I need to at least be able to narrow things down to a few choices, and that's the whole point of coming onto this board to read reviews, unbiased reviews.

In actuality, yogi did state several times that Adidas Tenzone/Tenzone SF/P7 are pretty fast/bouncy requiring adjustment for the short game in order to keep pushes low. IMHO, this qualifies as a "bad" thing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 9:34am
I remember someone said that since nexy lend those blades around for testing, the reviewers tend to say good things about nexy's blades. It is probably like that here. But we are all mature people here, we can judge yogi's reviews. There is nothing wrong for what he did. It's all up to us to analyze his reviews.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 9:44am
yogi_bear has been nothing but honest, so I don't think he deserves some of the comments above. His reviews are very detailed and make a great contribution to the forum, and I'm sure many people are grateful for the information.
We might not all agree on how reviewers need to disclose that the equipment are gifts, but the fact is yogi HAS disclosed this fact on many occasions without anyone having to ask him, so he's certainly done the right thing on my eyes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 10:53am
Ambigious about this, cause to me, it sounds as if Yogi are promoting Adidas more then reviewing their products.

Then again, the same could be said about all the BTY fans, who refused to say anything bad about BTY. The only difference was that they had to buy their stuff, but it don't change the fact that their reviews always where positive about BTY.

I see no harm in Yogi putting it in his signature that he gets free stuff from different companies. What I am curious about is why his sig shows all out Adidas products when he mentions that his favourite blade is a Stiga blade? I thought the point of having a set up listed in the sig was to show people what you play with.

Btw, I have a Wavestone listed in my signature, but I don't list that my first Wavestone blade ever was a gift from a Retailer (Rob at Affordable), neither have I mentioned anything about rubbers I've been given By Haggisv (OOAK) cause I don't think it is relevant. I'm able to give an unbiased review despite getting the stuff for free, and if Yogi is the same, then where's the problem?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:19pm
Any review of a product is biased unless the review is based on a fixed set of objective, unbiased tests, the same ones used to evaluate that product's competition. By this definition, most if not all reviews on this forum or anywhere else are biased.

Folks who have the impression that Yogi is an authority on equipment might infer that if Yogi says it's good then it must be good for them as well. That's the only potential problem I see, but that's by no means Yogi's fault, unless he's been actively going around, using his authoritative status to persuade folks to buy Adidas equipment.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 1:20pm
1) as long as the review begins with telling where you got the gear, I am fine with it. I mean we had a so-called forum testing here done many times for Nexy, Killerspin, BBC, Giant Dragon, Yin-He (Galaxy), Tuttle (have I forgotten some?) and each of the threads begins with disclosure that we got the stuff for free.

2) if the problem is that reviews are supposedly "more praise than substance" - well that's for the readers to decide. I think we all have seen a lot of the standard manufacturers claims along the lines "this is the rubber you have been waiting for; it will destroy your opponents and guarantee you consistent and deadly looping as well as total control and ease of play" Wink - so we should be able to distinguish between real reviews and just baseless boasts. After all, we can read and see for ourselves.

3) I think slevin was mostly concerned about the amount of free gear and advertisement related to Adidas in particular - it might look like Adidas was using Yogi as their shill to push the product into the market. But then again - as long as he does his reviewing properly, we will make decisions here, right? at the same time, we know that whenever Cole posts something or razortt (Fastpaddle) they are doing that with their business in mind and we are not blaming them for it, correct?... again, as long as we are informed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 5:37pm
I actually tought that Yogi_bear was playing with Adidas because it's the best!
Not all the reviews he's been writing says that he gets the stuff for free. I was thinking about trying out some Adidas stuff, but I heard it's the same as Donics and Andros and then it would be overpriced. I respect yogi_bear and all of his posts and I know a lot of other members listens to him and believe the stuff that he writes. People don't know me and my level of playing but, they look at my posts counted and think that my reviews is less worth than ex. Bluebuckets or others with a higher postcount because they maybe know more, have tried more equipment and such (that may or may not be the case) but I've been following this site for years with different accounts (always making a new one because I forget the passwords) and not been taking a big part in posting my experiences but just observing a lot. But I know A LOT!!! Now I'm getting better at sharing my knowledge. But people believe what yogi_bear is writing, and when being biased as he is influenced by Adidas, I think that both he, razortt or any other with an interest in selling or promoting equipment should write their "influence" in the sig as mentioned above so that people can make up their own mind on the actual posts when it is not mentioned that they got stuff for free etc.  
 
It actually should state so in the forum rules.
 
I like the fact that Adidas has gotten in to the sport though as that could contribute in making the sport much more popular (perhaps even big in ordinary peoples worlds Wink)! Everything that Adidas goes for almost always turns to gold. I would not buy their blades or their rubbers as I think that would maybe destroy some of the small TT-manufactures, and I would not like the fact only seing 3-4 big companies controlling our sport like in tennis. I love all of the different brands with thousands if not tens of thousands of possibilities for us to make our own uniqe setup.
 
I would really love to know who is making/providing Adidas with equipment and knowledge (be careful with the knowledge as they would copy it, but at some point Adidas would figure out or buy themselves into the sport) .

Maybe yogi_bear could help me out here? Please?!   


Edited by Reiin - 05/22/2012 at 5:56pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:54pm
speedplay, its because im using the blades and rubbers presently and that is why im putting it in my sig. some people here know that i collect 7 ply all wood blades. do u think it would fit putting the name of the 10 blades i own in my sig? also, other companies have released  fewer items the past yr and this year, whereas adidas has released a lot. its only logical that i review more of the things that are given to me more, isnt it? 
fatt, what i have been telling people all the time here. before anything else, they should try the equipment first. as what a poster said, making claims that an equipment sucks or is good before trying the equipment is a waste of time to argue with. in the end, it is in the reader's part to look for people who have these equipment and have a hit with these because that's the only way they could verify the reviews! my part is presenting the things i have tried and tested, judge my reviews when you have tried the products that is the bottom line. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:


I mean we had a so-called forum testing here done many times for Nexy, Killerspin, BBC, Giant Dragon, Yin-He (Galaxy), Tuttle (have I forgotten some?) and each of the threads begins with disclosure that we got the stuff for free.

Forum testing threads are a good thing and absolutely not objectionable. Finally, I became aware of my current blade because of such a thread. And such threads are living from many opinions of many users. I'm deciding by myself whether the equipment may be interesting for me or not. I would never buy equipment based on only one single review. So I'm free to decide to try it out or not.

So it would be great if yogi_bear would share his blades and rubbers with some interested forum members for a real exchange of experiences. That's the idea behind the forum testing threads.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 8:19pm
zzz, i actually started doing that. the tenzone was tested by a fellow forumer and friend jatienza and supposedly lildude was next but he said to turn it to bull_harrier who in turn was very busy and couldnt play TT anymore so im still waiting for him to send it to gatz and that was supposedly 3 months ago
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Personally, I don't have a problem with what yogi's doing in a general sense.  After all, most of the online reviewers receive their stuff from manufacturers for free, and I'm talking about big time sites like CNET and such.  With that said, I don't recall yogi saying one truly bad thing about any of the Adidas products he reviewed, and that's really quite suspicious.  Simply disclosing his relationship with Adidas isn't enough, IMO, since reviewers receiving free stuff is nothing new, but it appears to me that an attempt at being unbiased is sorely needed.

I mean, I'd love to try the Adidas stuff...for free.  If I end up having to pay for it, well, then the marketing campaign has already worked.  There are thousands of types of rubbers out there, I can't try them all.  When I feel like changing things up, I need to at least be able to narrow things down to a few choices, and that's the whole point of coming onto this board to read reviews, unbiased reviews.

In actuality, yogi did state several times that Adidas Tenzone/Tenzone SF/P7 are pretty fast/bouncy requiring adjustment for the short game in order to keep pushes low. IMHO, this qualifies as a "bad" thing.

on my P7 follow comment that I will be quoting:

"due to my less playing hours and more on coaching i shifted to the P7 from the Tenzone. The Tenzone needs its user to play at least 4-5x a week. The P7 is more controllable than the Tenzone so as of the moment its my FH rubber. I couldn't control it in my BH though I dunno why maybe its just me"  

if this is not a negative comment then i wouldn't know how to call it. people should read my reviews carefully. it seems a lot have jumped into the fingerpointing bandwagon and accuse me of things without reading my posts carefully. leave a few details out then the my posts would be either out of context or blurry to other people
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2012 at 9:48pm
for some reason this feels like an android vs iphone thing... anyways i just want to say that its hard to tell which rubber is better than the other since different people play differently and each individual will like a certain rubber better than the other... i say if you have doubts buy the rubber and post here if you think any different than the review you just read...

thanks yogi for all the reviews you have done i appreciated and happy birthday (i might be a little late)
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